EPTRiven's ult cd was initially 75 / 60 / 45, and consider that it lasts a good 10 seconds and that she's going to build CDR (brutaliser first yo, Ravenous Hydra didn't exist at the time), she can all-in you every minute at absolutely 0 cost (since Riven doesn't need her ult to kill people, is manaless, and now little to no cooldown).
[Public Beta Environment] General Discussion - Page 18
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Riven's ult cd was initially 75 / 60 / 45, and consider that it lasts a good 10 seconds and that she's going to build CDR (brutaliser first yo, Ravenous Hydra didn't exist at the time), she can all-in you every minute at absolutely 0 cost (since Riven doesn't need her ult to kill people, is manaless, and now little to no cooldown). | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4100 Posts
On October 20 2015 18:06 Alaric wrote: That's the second time they nerf her ult CD for that reason. They used the same reasoning when they moved Noxian Guillotine reset from "cd refund" to "can be recast in the next X seconds" if it kills someone. Otherwise if Darius can 100-0 you with his ult, he'll do it, you respawn after 20 seconds early game, come back to lane, and it does it again immediatly. Riven's ult cd was initially 75 / 60 / 45, and consider that it lasts a good 10 seconds and that she's going to build CDR (brutaliser first yo, Ravenous Hydra didn't exist at the time), she can all-in you every minute at absolutely 0 cost (since Riven doesn't need her ult to kill people, is manaless, and now little to no cooldown). yeah, sure, she was kind of retarded for long, but now its up to players skill level to deal with her. I often beat her with Rengar/Master yi which she is considered being hard counter to. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
Can't wait for preseason to come fast enough so we can get a real patch with some meat on it... | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Kinie
United States3106 Posts
If they introduced a new champion (let's say... not!Riven) and gave the champion a similar moveset but required the champion to build meter/resource (like Gnar, Renekton, Rengar, Rek'Sai) to combo the moves together or have synergy with each other (like maybe their Q does damage with a slight move, but if you use E then Q within a couple seconds of E's duration/buff the Q does damage + slow or a short knockup as the meter is spent) then it'd have counterplay (don't try to fight while they have meter, go on them when they don't). Instead Riven just combos her moves together via animation cancels and AA cancels which has basically no counterplay because all those things are part of her moveset and can't be seen/read unless you yourself are a Riven player and know how/when she'd do it. I suspect that's why they were trying to do the Fury passive/change to her, to give/show some sort of meter to give her lane opponent a chance for counterplay, but they bungled their first attempt of it. The "best" course of action would be a full rework with trying to re-do/incorporate some sort of meter/resource bar to allow for said animation cancels and AA cancels, but that would be a bitch to code and would probably kill boxbox and a bunch of other Riven main players. | ||
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JazzVortical
Australia1825 Posts
On October 22 2015 06:17 Kinie wrote: The biggest issue with Riven is that she doesn't belong in LoL based upon what inspired her creation (ie., fighting games) and they can't do a rework on her because of her uniqueness. If they introduced a new champion (let's say... not!Riven) and gave the champion a similar moveset but required the champion to build meter/resource (like Gnar, Renekton, Rengar, Rek'Sai) to combo the moves together or have synergy with each other (like maybe their Q does damage with a slight move, but if you use E then Q within a couple seconds of E's duration/buff the Q does damage + slow or a short knockup as the meter is spent) then it'd have counterplay (don't try to fight while they have meter, go on them when they don't). Instead Riven just combos her moves together via animation cancels and AA cancels which has basically no counterplay because all those things are part of her moveset and can't be seen/read unless you yourself are a Riven player and know how/when she'd do it. I suspect that's why they were trying to do the Fury passive/change to her, to give/show some sort of meter to give her lane opponent a chance for counterplay, but they bungled their first attempt of it. The "best" course of action would be a full rework with trying to re-do/incorporate some sort of meter/resource bar to allow for said animation cancels and AA cancels, but that would be a bitch to code and would probably kill boxbox and a bunch of other Riven main players. Since when is uniqueness a reason not to rework a champ? Not disagreeing with you, but a lot of reworked champs have lost what makes them unique. E.g. Xerath (still salty) | ||
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
Let's get the preseason going with actual information, woo! | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
For those not wanting to click two links to get the details, here is the riot context for the 6 champs changed the most. The rest of the marksmen just seemed to get stat changes with some minor functionality tweaks (like urgot's ult giving % DR instead of armor/MR). Apologies, I didn't really bother to copy the formatting, but it's readable. + Show Spoiler [Caitlyn] + Hey guys, This thread is to discuss Caitlyn's changes with the upcoming season. They should be on PBE tomorrow (Oct. 29). As a preview, I'll summarize the changes and why we are doing them. Major Changes: Base stats All marksmen have received some base stat adjustments; Caitlyn is no exception. Caitlyn's auto-attacks scale 10% less well with bonus attack speed. P 1. Caitlyn's Headshot now scales in damage with her Crit Chance (so at 50% crit chance, it deals +100% damage). 2. Caitlyn can fire a double-range Headshot at targets she has trapped or netted by auto-attacking them. This is independent from her normal Headshot. Q Piltover Peacemaker's missile is now narrow, but blooms into its old wide self on first target hit. Damage up by about 20% on the first hit, but falls off harder on the follow up hits. W 1. Traps are now on an ammo system with a very short cooldown but longer recharge time, allowing Caitlyn to quickly set up a fortress of traps but then leaving her without traps for a much longer time if pushed away from them. 2. Traps no longer deal damage -- instead, they interact with your passive. E Cooldown unchanged, but we drained some power and reliability from this spell to make room for power elsewhere. The net missile is a bit narrow, shorter, slower, and deals less damage. Now interacts with your passive. R is unchanged Why are we trying these changes? We think Caitlyn is in a good spot balance and play pattern-wise, but she isn't perfect. Caitlyn’s play pattern is enjoyable, but indistinct. Let’s give the Caitlyn player more things they can master that someone familiar with marksmen generally won’t immediately pick up. Let's do that while still making her about her auto-attack. Caitlyn tends to feel either endlessly oppressive or inconsequential. Let’s enhance her laning phase strengths (dominance and fast pushing), but create some meaningful win conditions for the opponent that involve not just outlasting but actively disrupting that plan. Caitlyn has at times been the safe sieger and at times been the blood boil hypercarry. Let’s give her a clearer late-game identity from peer marksmen, focused on zone control to make her the premiere sieger. As always, let's enhance our champion's thematic identity, in this case Caitlyn as sharpshooter. + Show Spoiler [Corki] + Greetings, League's Daring Bombardier will be getting a pretty unique update with the new preseason. Here are the main details: Corki's identity as the magic damage Marksman is being reinforced Hextech Shrapnel Shells now cause Corki's basic attacks to deal split damage (half magic, half physical) instead of bonus true damage As a result, Hextech Shrapnel Shells now interacts with attack modifiers like Trinity Force and Critical Strikes once again Gatling Gun also deals split damage and now shreds both Armor and MR (but at reduced amounts) Corki will have a new tool to utilize in the form of "The Package" that grants him access to "Special Delivery" The Package will arrive in Corki's base after an interval. Corki can return to the fountain to pick it up temporarily gaining extreme out of combat Movement Speed and upgrading Valkyrie into Special Delivery. Special Delivery allows Corki to perform a bombing run - it travels much faster and further than Valkyrie, and drops incendiary bombs that knock aside enemies in the path (think Draven E) and leave a deadly fire trial behind that both slows and damages enemies who dare to cross it (or get forced into it!) Special Delivery can be used to cut off the retreat of a fleeing foe or to cause chaos by splitting the enemy team apart in team fights Corki will have to take more risks with the update One of the longer standing issues with Corki has always been his relative safety among the Marksman class due to having strong ranged poke and one of the most powerful escape abilities in the game (Valkyrie) Valkyrie's range is being substantially reduced Utilizing The Package is a fairly risky play with large payoffs when executed correctly I know this is a lot to take in, but hopefully you guys will get to have some fun experimenting with the new tools Corki will have in his arsenal in the next season. Appreciate any feedback you guys have on this. + Show Spoiler [Graves] + Hey guys, Graves is getting some big changes this patch and we're eager to get your feedback on the current direction. Here's a summary of the major changes: Base Stats Attack range reduced to 425 Graves' base stats have been adjusted to be similar to a melee champion P -- New "Destiny" 1. Graves’ attack is a cone of 4 bullets whose AD ratio scales up by 33% over game time. The first bullet does 0.75-1.1 tAD (by level); extra bullets deal 33% of that. Each bullet can apply On Hit Effects, but only once per target. Graves’ crits fire more bullets (8 normally, 10 with Infinity Edge), empowering him at close range to burst a target and long range to deal AoE damage. 2. Graves stores two shells at any time. After using them, he will reload before he can autoattack again. Reload has a longer delay than the normal time between attacks and is reduced only slightly by attack speed. Graves’ time between attacks otherwise is reduced dramatically by attack speed. 4. Unlike other basic attacks, Graves’ bullets hit the first unit they collide with. Q - New "End of the Line" Graves' basic attack is extremely potent, but he needed a tool to keep ranged opponents from running straight away from him and melee from running straight at him. This is where Graves' new Q, End of the Line shines: Fires a powder round, dealing low damage in a line before landing on the ground After ~1 second, this will detonate, dealing high damage along the line from which it fired and in both directions perpendicular to that line. If the powder round strikes a wall, this detonation is immediate W Smoke Screen is an extremely powerful ability. It's hard to appreciate that power partially because you cannot know how much vision it's actually restricting. Enemies inside Smoke Screen cannot see out, for any reason. Cooldown increased (20/19/18/17/16 >> 26/24/22/20/18). Now only slows briefly on impact. E Graves needs a lot more defenses to function at the 200-400 range window he now occupies. Quickdraw now gives True Grit's bonus on cast. If you can stretch a fight out, you can stack True Grit up to pretty monumental proportions, making Graves king in long, messy skirmishes. No longer grants AS. Instead, resets Graves’ AA and gives him 1 shell. Now grants True Grit (Armor/MR) for 4 seconds. This bonus is extended by striking a non-minion with a basic attack and can be stacked if sustained long enough to reactivate E. Speaking of reactivating E -- E’s cooldown is reduced by less from autoattacks, but each bullet can trigger this effect. R With a closer range pattern, Graves was getting into a lot of sticky situations. To help him deal with that, Collateral Damage now knocks Graves back substantially, creating a potential escape spell for Graves in exigent circumstances. Offensively it incentivizes “execute” usage over Live's more fire-and-forget R. What's the point of all these changes? Graves wields an epic-size shotgun. He should feel like he is a classic shotgun figure, with particular emphasis on devastating close range damage. Graves has struggled for years with being either strictly better or strictly worse than his peer marksmen (Lucian and Corki, for example). Instead of trying to push Graves and Lucian apart, we decided to flesh out Graves' character fantasy to such an extent that he would never feel like a different version of another champion. Strategically, Graves is empowered against close range opponents, particularly beefy divers who want to get up close and personal with him. He's effective at neutralizing them at the cost of sometimes struggling to output sustained damage against flighty longer range opponents. This makes him the perfect marksman for your team when the enemy _will _engage on you due to having better initiation tools than you have disengage. + Show Spoiler [Kog] + Hi all, With marksmen changes hitting PBE soon, I wanted to get a thread up to discuss changes to Kog'Maw that are coming in the big preseason patch. Kog'Maw's changes are pretty simple and straightforward, and they aim to further emphasize some of the main things we've always known and love about him. Namely, we want him to really shine in support-heavy team comps, and we want him to feel like a really juicy target for opponents. This won't be line-by-line changes like you'd see in the patch notes, but rather summaries of the bigger changes going on here. Changes: Bio-Arcane Barrage (W) has been changed to make Kog'Maw some kind of vomit-spewing machine gun while it is active. While W is active, Kog'Maw attacks twice as fast, and his Attack Speed cap is doubled to 5 attacks per second. While W is active, basic attacks deal reduced physical damage, but apply on-hit effects at full effect. During this time, Kog'Maw attacks so fast that attack-moving efficiently becomes incredibly difficult, so choose a time when you don't need to move much, and go to town. Living Artillery (R) has been repurposed to be less powerful in the average poke case, but very threatening as an execution tool. Living Artillery's base damage and ratios have been adjusted, and it no longer deals increased base damage to champions. Living Artillery now deals double damage to enemies at 25%-50% current Health, and triple damage to enemies below 25% Health Various other changes/thoughts: Base Attack Speed stats and Q's passive Attack Speed have been adjusted so he is more dependent upon maxing both his Q and W to really approach his full damage potential. For those wondering, AP Kog'Maw will play a bit differently than before, but we believe it to be of about equal power to before. Those are the main changes. If you get a chance to play Kog'Maw, please do let me know how it goes by replying to this thread. I'll be popping in pretty regularly while Kog is on PBE to monitor his progress and see how players are feeling about him. Cheers, Dcap + Show Spoiler [Miss Fortune] + Salutations, Miss Fortune is receiving a fairly significant update with the next preseason. It may not be as dramatic as some of the other Marksmen, but it should better solidify her place in the Marksman lineup and the League roster as a whole. Miss Fortune is making her return as the queen of the Wombo Combo Bullet Time now channels for a higher max duration and thus higher max damage output (DPS is similar if not better in most cases) Bullet Time now scales much better into the later parts of the game - Miss Fortune now fires waves more rapidly at higher ranks and Bullet Time waves can now critically strike (but at a reduced amount) Impure Shots is gone and has been replaced by Love Tap Love Tap is now MF's character passive - it's a new basic attack mechanic that deals bonus damage whenever Miss Fortune attacks a new target MF now gets a lot more value if she can manage to bounce her attacks between 2 or several targets Strut has been moved to W's Passive now that Love Tap is her character passive This isn't all of the nitty gritty details, but gives you guys an overview of the larger changes we made to the kit. Feel free to leave feedback once you guys get a chance to test her out. Hope you guys enjoy! + Show Spoiler [Quinn] + Hi guys, With preseason hitting the PBE shortly and Quinn being one of the six main marksmen getting an update, I wanted to put up a post to gather feedback on her changes for her time on the PBE before release. Rather than a long line-by-line changelist on the PBE, you'll instead find the main changes going on in Quinn's update in the body of the thread, not necessarily in P,Q,W,E,R order. Changes: Tag Team (R) has been heavily repurposed into a strategic map mobility tool: Tag Team's visuals have been changed from Quinn leaving the game space to Valor flying Quinn around beneath him. Tag Team now has a 2-second channel at its start, and no longer has combat spells or basic attacks. Tag Team now has no cooldown, and its Movement Speed bonus is now very dramatic. Skystrike has been retained, but deals less damage and does not deal increased damage based on targets' missing Health. Blinding Assault (Q) has been repurposed (and renamed) into more of a waveclearing tool and less of a dueling tool: Q's name has been changed to Aerial Assault, because... the spell no longer blinds. Aerial Assault now marks its primary target as Vulnerable (passive mark). Aerial Assault now does up to double damage based on targets' missing Health. Half of Aerial Assault's cooldown is refunded if it kills at least one enemy. Various other changes: Harrier (P) attacks now deal a percentage of Quinn's total AD rather than a base and bonus AD ratio. Vault (E) has had its dash speed increased, and it should now more reliably return you along the vector you dashed in on. The above changes are the main ones that should most dramatically change the way Quinn plays following her update. Please feel free to give feedback on any of the above stuff, and do let me know if anything feels off about the character in ways you wouldn't expect given the above information. I did quite a bit of script cleanup on her, so I want to make sure I didn't change the feel of things in ways I didn't intend. Thanks all, Repertoir | ||
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On October 22 2015 05:57 Seuss wrote: I'm eagerly awaiting their next failed attempt to promote diversity in the jungle. It's not even that they fail to make it diverse... they make it diverse then decide they hate it. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
I dislike the changes to Kog. I haven't done the math but machine gunning it doesn't *feel* any better or more powerful and, at least for the part of the game I played, felt like a downside due to the immobility letting people get away or get in my face. Maybe my build was wrong though, all the items are changed. The ult changes are weird and crazy, I'm not used to doing 600-800 damage with ult late-game on low HP targets. He might still gel with a poke comp simply because if anyone does low the threat ult poses can be huge. AP kog also clears better earlier than before, e + just one ult kills ranged minions at 6. I love the Quinn changes. She feels powerful, she is by far the most vroom vroom champion in the game, and it feels like Valor is more of a teammate than an occasional transformation since Q now applies passive and passive CD scales with stats into lategame. I didn't like Quinn before and now I'll probably buy her on live. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
lol. 10 minutes worth of farming, you get an extra 130 gold after selling it than you'd have before. I dont care what matchup I am in, I dont want that starting item. If I am stronger early, then I want Dblade, I am going to get way more gold by just having stats for last hitting, and will deny my enemy gold as well. lol. God forbid Cull loses you a kill... So bad compared to Avarice blade, which you bought because you wanted Shiv anyway, and gave you like 400 gold above and beyond. Cull either needs mad buffs or no one will ever buy it. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35114 Posts
http://www.surrenderat20.net/2015/11/1110-pbe-update.html | ||
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