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On July 22 2015 07:27 Shikyo wrote:
Right, the coolest champion to play, Fiora... Who was perhaps the only character who could do go to brush at low hp -> triple kill with ravenous hydra lifesteal and ult and resets etc. and who I played almost all the time... Reworked to hell like this.
Her ult is just amazingly garbage. It's worse than most normal skills in the game, let alone other ults.
I honestly think that Fiora's only viable as a support now. She has a lot of CC and damage reduction and an AoE heal. What a "duelist". Way to ruin another champion, Riot.
...And honestly, that new splash art is Urgot level ugly when her last one was one of my favorites. Way to go boys.
Riot is doing that to all the splashes. All the pretty ladies have to look ugly now.
Even though it's a joke, I'm going to play devil's advocate. She has two slows and true damage to set up ganks really easily and deal upfront burst. She isn't going to be doing significantly more damage with items now. As a support, players will be more likely to ignore her as she ults them which gives her a higher likelyhood of getting off a channeled ult. Which seems to be an amazing utility spell.
The rework really reminds me of Irelia, but much worse.
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On July 22 2015 07:51 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 07:27 Shikyo wrote:
Right, the coolest champion to play, Fiora... Who was perhaps the only character who could do go to brush at low hp -> triple kill with ravenous hydra lifesteal and ult and resets etc. and who I played almost all the time... Reworked to hell like this.
Her ult is just amazingly garbage. It's worse than most normal skills in the game, let alone other ults.
I honestly think that Fiora's only viable as a support now. She has a lot of CC and damage reduction and an AoE heal. What a "duelist". Way to ruin another champion, Riot.
...And honestly, that new splash art is Urgot level ugly when her last one was one of my favorites. Way to go boys. Riot is doing that to all the splashes. All the pretty ladies have to look ugly now. She isn't going to be doing significantly more damage with items now.
Q on a 4 second CD applying on-hits with 1.15 bonus AD ratio and her passive %health true damage scaling with AD and being an AD champion with a 4 second gap closer means she won't be doing significantly more damage with items.
Incomprehensible.
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It was only announced, Zess, so probably in 2 to 4 weeks.
On July 22 2015 07:06 FinestHour wrote:
for the record i think the rework was actually good in terms of new abilities and playstyle
but man all that P E R C E N T H E A L T H T R U E D A M A G E
I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts regarding the healing part of her ult then. After all, she's supposed to be a duelist but that part is healing as part of/sometimes after the duel, and AoE in a way that specifically benefits allies standing in the same place.
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actually had a notification indicating that someone i reported was banned today. felt good.
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to me its a clear indication that they wanna add additional benefit/incentive to promote grouping up 5v5 etc as that character, lets you choose if u wanna sit top or joining earlier depending on team and item path etc etc more choices aka more
S T A T E G I C D I V E R S I T Y
afk top 40 min 1v1god go jax trynd
or join fight sooner rumble new fiora with little tankier build irelia etc
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I actually think her ultimate (and entire kit) looks amazing. In a 1v1 you can trigger 3 procs pretty much instantly, 1 from regular passive then ult and use E as an auto reset to get second and third immediately. That's alot of damage and healing from her passive alone. In teamfights you just need to proc one of the weak points to trigger it's healing aura for your team.
From what I've seen on streams she looks like a blast to play.
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On July 22 2015 07:48 Zess wrote:
The Fiora changes aren't out yet right?
Just hit PBE today.
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So on the topic of new fioras build and scaling:
EDIT: I used wrong values...disregard all scaling...
Her passive true damage scaling is ok, but its base is solid too. With 300 ad she will do around 15% %mx true damage per passive proc. This is compared to vaynes 8%+60 every 3 attacks. With 150AD she will do like 8-10%, which seems like enough.
Her Q has low base damage, and medium scaling, it does a bit less damage than unisolated khazix Q, nowhere near a panth Q. However, it is very very low CD mobility. At max CDR if it hits a champion it has a 2.4 second CD....insanely mobile.
W has decent base damage, but most importantly it dodges hard CC and outputs a stun. This is incredibly incredibly strong in a 1v1 situation. Many Many champions cannot win a duel if their main skill is negated, plus a stun.
E is interesting because it disincentivizes crit over 50%. Honestly its not very impressive as a skill, but it makes her a bit stickier.
Ult does massive true damage, and gives a huge MS boost. Like 60% true damage at 300AD. The heal is enormous at max, like 300hp a second for 5 seconds, 1500hp total. Considering you get it if she ults and you burst the target, its SUPER strong teamfight tool. The AD scaling on the heal is not fantastic compared to the base, you still get like 230 heal even at 150ad.
Honestly this all depends on how able she its to passive proc. It seems to me that her scaling isn't strong enough to warrant a full damage build, she really wants max CDR for her Q mobility, and enough tankiness to survive to continue to passive proc.
With NO ad built at all she will do ~8% true per passive proc...So a maxed vayne W every hit. With base damages and 40% CDR she should be able to bounce around and melt people while being incredibly tanky. I mean that kills anyone regardless of defensive stats in 7-12 hits.
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I just don't see the point of going full tank, when you can kill literally anyone they send at you while splitting. CDR boots, brut and runes/masteries get you close enough to max CDR. I suppose if you're behind. I'd probably still go Tforce->Brut->Maw->Mallet.
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Are you sure you're not confusing total AD and bonus AD, sobek?
On July 22 2015 08:25 FinestHour wrote:
to me its a clear indication that they wanna add additional benefit/incentive to promote grouping up 5v5 etc as that character, lets you choose if u wanna sit top or joining earlier depending on team and item path etc etc more choices aka more
S T A T E G I C D I V E R S I T Y
afk top 40 min 1v1god go jax trynd
or join fight sooner rumble new fiora with little tankier build irelia etc
Oh, so because it brings something new to the table compared to similar (eg. "diving bruiser") champions?
It makes sense, although it still annoys me wrt the whole "grand duelist" theme.
I don't know if Irelia really wants to "join" fights. I mean, she sure does, but Rumble, or even champions like Malphite are totally fine with straight-up 5v5 grouped fights early, while Irelia is more about skirmishes, catching people isolated, or setting up flanks, so sieging or posturing about objectives isn't really her thing in comparison.
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On July 22 2015 09:32 Alaric wrote:Are you sure you're not confusing total AD and bonus AD, sobek? Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 08:25 FinestHour wrote:
to me its a clear indication that they wanna add additional benefit/incentive to promote grouping up 5v5 etc as that character, lets you choose if u wanna sit top or joining earlier depending on team and item path etc etc more choices aka more
S T A T E G I C D I V E R S I T Y
afk top 40 min 1v1god go jax trynd
or join fight sooner rumble new fiora with little tankier build irelia etc Oh, so because it brings something new to the table compared to similar (eg. "diving bruiser") champions? It makes sense, although it still annoys me wrt the whole "grand duelist" theme. I don't know if Irelia really wants to "join" fights. I mean, she sure does, but Rumble, or even champions like Malphite are totally fine with straight-up 5v5 grouped fights early, while Irelia is more about skirmishes, catching people isolated, or setting up flanks, so sieging or posturing about objectives isn't really her thing in comparison.
oh, I was going by the surrenderat20, but now the wiki has different values
So no flat scaling whatsoever....huh, well I don't have time to reevaluate
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On July 22 2015 09:17 Caiada wrote:
I just don't see the point of going full tank, when you can kill literally anyone they send at you while splitting. CDR boots, brut and runes/masteries get you close enough to max CDR. I suppose if you're behind. I'd probably still go Tforce->Brut->Maw->Mallet.
there are a ton of stupidly good duelists if built damage that aren't very useful or particularly good
Trundle/Jax/Trynd/Yi/Kha etc etc
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On July 22 2015 07:57 Caiada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 07:51 Sonnington wrote:On July 22 2015 07:27 Shikyo wrote:
Right, the coolest champion to play, Fiora... Who was perhaps the only character who could do go to brush at low hp -> triple kill with ravenous hydra lifesteal and ult and resets etc. and who I played almost all the time... Reworked to hell like this.
Her ult is just amazingly garbage. It's worse than most normal skills in the game, let alone other ults.
I honestly think that Fiora's only viable as a support now. She has a lot of CC and damage reduction and an AoE heal. What a "duelist". Way to ruin another champion, Riot.
...And honestly, that new splash art is Urgot level ugly when her last one was one of my favorites. Way to go boys. Riot is doing that to all the splashes. All the pretty ladies have to look ugly now. She isn't going to be doing significantly more damage with items now. Q on a 4 second CD applying on-hits with 1.15 bonus AD ratio and her passive %health true damage scaling with AD and being an AD champion with a 4 second gap closer means she won't be doing significantly more damage with items. Incomprehensible.
You forgot the most important part, she's melee and she doesn't have an untargetable skill or Trynd ult. She doesn't have a damage amp like Zed/Yi nor good escapes like Zed used to.
I was just looking at her PBE abilities and had some time to think about this without just a knee jerk reaction. This kit is just like Irelia, but worse. You have a gap closer to enemies, but it targets enemy champions, so you can't use it to farm. It's also only 400 units rather than 650. It's yet to be seen if she can use it as an escape. She deals true damage which also heals her, but it's a random debuff most of the time making it less reliable than Irelia. She gains CC/damage immunity with the chance to slow/stun on a skillshot. Irelia gains tenacity passively and has a chance to slow/stun on auto, so both are much more reliable.
Fiora has a weird, 'Don't fight me in my ult' ability. While Irelia has a guaranteed wave clear/heal/snipe ult. I think the biggest problem is her lack of waveclear. I thought she'd go classic triforce into bork. Bork so she can get off her 4 procs during her ult easier, but she's going to need a hydra for waveclear. Unless lunge AOE damage, which I doubt.
Fiora parries all incoming damage and disables for the next 0.75 seconds and then slashes in the target direction
The wording on this is pretty interesting. It stops -all- damage and cc for .75 seconds? That's actually really significant if you can play that out properly.
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Her Q is also two parts like ekkos E, I'm not sure which part has 400 range but its total distance closed is probably 650+
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It can even block true damage since they mention Darius' ult.
And her Q is ground-targeted now, although with only 400 range it's possible that it doesn't jump walls.
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On July 22 2015 09:46 Alaric wrote:
It can even block true damage since they mention Darius' ult.
And her Q is ground-targeted now, although with only 400 range it's possible that it doesn't jump walls.
ekkos E only has 325 range but it can cross the fat wall from outside of base to wolves that you can barely flash.
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On July 22 2015 09:42 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 07:57 Caiada wrote:On July 22 2015 07:51 Sonnington wrote:On July 22 2015 07:27 Shikyo wrote:
Right, the coolest champion to play, Fiora... Who was perhaps the only character who could do go to brush at low hp -> triple kill with ravenous hydra lifesteal and ult and resets etc. and who I played almost all the time... Reworked to hell like this.
Her ult is just amazingly garbage. It's worse than most normal skills in the game, let alone other ults.
I honestly think that Fiora's only viable as a support now. She has a lot of CC and damage reduction and an AoE heal. What a "duelist". Way to ruin another champion, Riot.
...And honestly, that new splash art is Urgot level ugly when her last one was one of my favorites. Way to go boys. Riot is doing that to all the splashes. All the pretty ladies have to look ugly now. She isn't going to be doing significantly more damage with items now. Q on a 4 second CD applying on-hits with 1.15 bonus AD ratio and her passive %health true damage scaling with AD and being an AD champion with a 4 second gap closer means she won't be doing significantly more damage with items. Incomprehensible. You forgot the most important part, she's melee and she doesn't have an untargetable skill or Trynd ult. She doesn't have a damage amp like Zed/Yi nor good escapes like Zed used to. I was just looking at her PBE abilities and had some time to think about this without just a knee jerk reaction. This kit is just like Irelia, but worse. You have a gap closer to enemies, but it targets enemy champions, so you can't use it to farm. It's also only 400 units rather than 650. It's yet to be seen if she can use it as an escape. She deals true damage which also heals her, but it's a random debuff most of the time making it less reliable than Irelia. She gains CC/damage immunity with the chance to slow/stun on a skillshot. Irelia gains tenacity passively and has a chance to slow/stun on auto, so both are much more reliable. Fiora has a weird, 'Don't fight me in my ult' ability. While Irelia has a guaranteed wave clear/heal/snipe ult. I think the biggest problem is her lack of waveclear. I thought she'd go classic triforce into bork. Bork so she can get off her 4 procs during her ult easier, but she's going to need a hydra for waveclear. Unless lunge AOE damage, which I doubt. Fiora parries all incoming damage and disables for the next 0.75 seconds and then slashes in the target direction The wording on this is pretty interesting. It stops -all- damage and cc for .75 seconds? That's actually really significant if you can play that out properly.
Yeah, that's why I kind of got the impression you didn't really read much of it.
W parries all damage for .75 seconds, yes. Kinda the whole point of the E rework. It slows 50% regardless of what you dodge, and even still E is another 65% slow. Botrk is redundant, only necessary for possible duels and because Q procs it.
Q can be targeted anywhere. It then attacks the nearest target, whatever it is, probably prioritizing champions but explicitly prioritizing things in kill range. You know it can be targeted anywhere because it only gets the refund if it hits something.
The passive is much more damage than Irelia. She'll duel much better than Irelia. She has an escape, Irelia does not. Her ult is a lot more potential damage than Irelia's and is teamfight presence (or skirmish, at least.) In exchange, no free tenacity, a whole lot less healing, and a harder lane phase.
Hydra applying on Q makes it an obvious choice over BotRK, especially given she makes shit use of attack speed and needs the passive to split.
That's the definition of knee jerk. You saw true damage on a melee with a gapclosing Q and immediately assumed shittier Irelia and poor item scaling.
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On July 22 2015 09:42 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2015 07:57 Caiada wrote:On July 22 2015 07:51 Sonnington wrote:On July 22 2015 07:27 Shikyo wrote:
Right, the coolest champion to play, Fiora... Who was perhaps the only character who could do go to brush at low hp -> triple kill with ravenous hydra lifesteal and ult and resets etc. and who I played almost all the time... Reworked to hell like this.
Her ult is just amazingly garbage. It's worse than most normal skills in the game, let alone other ults.
I honestly think that Fiora's only viable as a support now. She has a lot of CC and damage reduction and an AoE heal. What a "duelist". Way to ruin another champion, Riot.
...And honestly, that new splash art is Urgot level ugly when her last one was one of my favorites. Way to go boys. Riot is doing that to all the splashes. All the pretty ladies have to look ugly now. She isn't going to be doing significantly more damage with items now. Q on a 4 second CD applying on-hits with 1.15 bonus AD ratio and her passive %health true damage scaling with AD and being an AD champion with a 4 second gap closer means she won't be doing significantly more damage with items. Incomprehensible. You forgot the most important part, she's melee and she doesn't have an untargetable skill or Trynd ult. She doesn't have a damage amp like Zed/Yi nor good escapes like Zed used to. I was just looking at her PBE abilities and had some time to think about this without just a knee jerk reaction. This kit is just like Irelia, but worse. You have a gap closer to enemies, but it targets enemy champions, so you can't use it to farm. It's also only 400 units rather than 650. It's yet to be seen if she can use it as an escape. She deals true damage which also heals her, but it's a random debuff most of the time making it less reliable than Irelia. She gains CC/damage immunity with the chance to slow/stun on a skillshot. Irelia gains tenacity passively and has a chance to slow/stun on auto, so both are much more reliable. Fiora has a weird, 'Don't fight me in my ult' ability. While Irelia has a guaranteed wave clear/heal/snipe ult. I think the biggest problem is her lack of waveclear. I thought she'd go classic triforce into bork. Bork so she can get off her 4 procs during her ult easier, but she's going to need a hydra for waveclear. Unless lunge AOE damage, which I doubt. Fiora parries all incoming damage and disables for the next 0.75 seconds and then slashes in the target direction The wording on this is pretty interesting. It stops -all- damage and cc for .75 seconds? That's actually really significant if you can play that out properly.
Having just played two games of Fiora on the PBE:
Her Q can be used to farm. It also procs hydra. It can also be used to escape over thin walls, though I haven't managed to, say, jump the wall to wraiths that tricky Nidalees can use. It prioritizes champions and then stuff in kill range.
I'm not sure if W stops *all* damage, but it stops just about everything. Doesn't help much vs DoT (ignite) or DoT-like damage (laser turrets) though. W can also act as AoE farm to a small extent if you level it but I think that's a bad idea.
Her R *is* weird. So far I've had a much easier time proccing it by killing things than by hitting all 4 sides because when people run away her minigame gets very difficult. The healing is very powerful even if it's thematically confusing.
Also, her passive "weak points" do stay in place and do not rotate with enemy champion movement.
edit: guess I was beaten to the punch.
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So I guess time to just play Soraka, get an early zeke's, and give my two item ADC permanent 100% crit chance in team fights? Like, why would they think that this item is a good idea?
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Ekko's E is a blink, so as long as you can cross over half of a terrain element you'll get placed on the other side. Dashes don't work that way because if their range is too short to cross the whole wall you'll simply faceplant into it, so you can't use that "over half" rule with them, see: Graves, Shen, etc.
Riven's an exception but that's because Riot pampers her for whatever the heck reason they deem fit, something about "expressing skill".
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EPT
