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On August 05 2015 04:00 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 03:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Yeah let me just get 400 armor. I was of the opinion that Thornmail kept ADC in a delicate balance. Its not too uncommon. Unless you need to itemize for MR that seems like a pretty standard lategame amount of armor for a tank with 3 defensive items. Average armor for a bruiser/tank is around 90 Base at level 18. 9 From yellows, 13 from Quints. 5 +3/enemy from Masteries. +10% bonus from masteries. Plus any particular ability or passive that might increase your armor So with just thrornmail you have have ~228+3.3/enemy [so about 231 to 244 armor]. Add Ninja Tabi [252 <->271]. Add Randuins [324<->348]. Add Sunfire Cape [384<->398] . Add Frozen Heart at 90 armor [483 <-> 497] So a 3 defensive + boots gets to pretty close to 400 armor for a tank. 4 defensive+boots is around 500 armor.
Most people get Mercs and that's 5 armor items. Giving you just under 400 bonus armor. On most tanks people also tend to get 1-2 offensive items and 1-2 mr items. Eg. a LW or something on Garen or an Abyssal on Maokai.
If thornmail is still balanced it'll be because it's reflecting more damage back towards mages, supports, tanks, maybe fighters, and maybe on-hit builds that rely more on magic damage. Not because thornmail will still be good against the thing it's supposed to be good against: ADCs.
If you auto a tank with Thornmail as Annie or Malzahar, you could take almost as much damage as you dealt to them which is completely unintuitive. Veterans will have to unlearn whether to auto tanks.
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The Darius one is fine. Everything else is really, really bad.
1. Garen: the problem here is that his mark can easily change in a teamfight and it is otherwise unpredictable. Also I see scenarios which he may want one of his allies die so he can get off a true damage ult.
2. Skarner is now Bard v2. Terrible idea and does not address his problems at all.
3. Morde. Ugh.
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Who the fuck gets Armor Quints? Or actually, who the fuck gets 4 armor items unless they have an AD mid and top?
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On August 05 2015 04:16 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 04:00 Goumindong wrote:On August 05 2015 03:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Yeah let me just get 400 armor. I was of the opinion that Thornmail kept ADC in a delicate balance. Its not too uncommon. Unless you need to itemize for MR that seems like a pretty standard lategame amount of armor for a tank with 3 defensive items. Average armor for a bruiser/tank is around 90 Base at level 18. 9 From yellows, 13 from Quints. 5 +3/enemy from Masteries. +10% bonus from masteries. Plus any particular ability or passive that might increase your armor So with just thrornmail you have have ~228+3.3/enemy [so about 231 to 244 armor]. Add Ninja Tabi [252 <->271]. Add Randuins [324<->348]. Add Sunfire Cape [384<->398] . Add Frozen Heart at 90 armor [483 <-> 497] So a 3 defensive + boots gets to pretty close to 400 armor for a tank. 4 defensive+boots is around 500 armor. Most people get Mercs and that's 5 armor items. Giving you a bonus of just under 400 bonus armor. On most tanks people also tend to get 1-2 offensive items and 1-2 mr items. Eg. a LW or something on Garen.
Yea but my statement was that it makes all physical damage teams very difficult. So you shouldn't be getting Merc's and should be getting lots of armor. Boots +3 armor is about 400 total armor [300 bonus or so]. Boots + 4 could be about 500 total[400 bonus] but i would suspect you would get a pure HP item [and swap the
Since everyone auto attacks and you can no longer rely on Thornmail not doing much damage early or against champions who just incidentally auto attack.
On August 05 2015 04:19 Caiada wrote:
Who the fuck gets Armor Quints? Or actually, who the fuck gets 4 armor items unless they have an AD mid and top?
Yes. Its almost as if my initial statement was
Yea. It looks like it entirely neuters full physical comps. You buy thornmail with 400 armor and now ever auto attack does .15[unmodified attack damage] + 75 damage. Break even point is 500 damage/attack. [or Bonus armor/.15], so about 200 damage with just thornmail and rune/mastery armor. [more damage/attack means a nerf to thornmail, less means a buff]
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All-physical teams already sucked. What's the point?
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Skarner now turns the game into TT/Dominion lol
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I don't understand how skarner fits, stylistically, with these other 3 champions.
Also if the portals give vision that is dumb. That they give gold for destruction is dumb, just like it is for Rek Sai tunnels.
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On August 05 2015 04:28 Caiada wrote:
All-physical teams already sucked. What's the point?
largely physical damage teams have weaknesses but are not so weak as you're suggesting.
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We can't really judge them too much because it look like they are getting kit modifications too. At least morde.
They all look interesting to me, except morde with his current kit being unable to touch towers and being an ADC replacement.
Darius change seems like an unstable feast or famine mechanic that will prove to be a mistake, all Riot's reset champions have been unpleasant disasters at one point and are now nerfed/changed.
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Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.
Skarner is odd. It's sort of interesting but outside of making his clear easier I don't see how it helps him deal with his tricky team fighting issues.
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On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.
It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something.
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Yeah, in terms of intuitive game mechanics it's pretty silly.
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Its also not good for the game structurally just due to how team fights work
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On August 05 2015 04:42 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.
It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something.
Inc lich king Morde Skin
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On August 05 2015 04:55 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 04:42 Ansibled wrote:On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.
It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something. Inc lich king Morde Skin
Isn't that just a blue Chroma of one of basically 4 of his skins?
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What in the fuck are these changes? I can understand and totaly get behind them making a new class of champ called the juggernaunt but whaaa? not even going to talk about garen beacuse thats dumb. Darius is a step forward but he was always a mistake. Skarner's is just a dumb idea that no one called bullshit on.
Morde sounds like something that was " a really good idea, for a joke" but the for a joke part was left out and was given to their best team who actualy put effort into it.
Morde/nasus bot lane sounds so awesome to me.
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idk they all seem fine except skarner one. maybe i dont understand it properly but the enemy team is basically getting 3 tower things that give them free gold in exchange for skarner being a bit stronger on your home turf. how is that ever a good trade off ever in an even game lol.
also reading the comments on that article is hilarious, all the low elo trash that you forget makes up the majority of the playerbase. WTF RITO BUFFING GAREN AND DARIUS THEY ALREADY THE MOST OP CHAMPS!!
lol dying.
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The Morde change is interesting, at least with the whole "get Dragon as a temporary specter" thing. It also makes taking dragon much more important for his team, as in theory if you get it and can have at least a bit of control over the specter dragon, you just group as 6 in mid/bot and push down turrets or just rush over to Baron and grab that objective too.
Darius change is simple and makes sense, Garen's ult dealing true damage is probably all it needed and the whole passive tick is going to be hard to balance, and Skarner's change is 'wtf is this shit' levels of dumb. Just turn the damn champion into Sand King already and be done with it Riot.
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On August 05 2015 05:08 Sermokala wrote:
What in the fuck are these changes? I can understand and totaly get behind them making a new class of champ called the juggernaunt but whaaa? not even going to talk about garen beacuse thats dumb. Darius is a step forward but he was always a mistake. Skarner's is just a dumb idea that no one called bullshit on.
Morde sounds like something that was " a really good idea, for a joke" but the for a joke part was left out and was given to their best team who actualy put effort into it.
Morde/nasus bot lane sounds so awesome to me.
huh? that sounds like the worst lane possible since morde needs the last hits to get the full xp. I cant think of a lane with less synergy.
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EPT
