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[Patch 5.14] Bilgewater General Discussion - Page 45

Forum Index > LoL General
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obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:24:40
August 04 2015 19:16 GMT
#881
On August 05 2015 04:00 Goumindong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2015 03:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Yeah let me just get 400 armor. I was of the opinion that Thornmail kept ADC in a delicate balance.


Its not too uncommon. Unless you need to itemize for MR that seems like a pretty standard lategame amount of armor for a tank with 3 defensive items.

Average armor for a bruiser/tank is around 90 Base at level 18. 9 From yellows, 13 from Quints. 5 +3/enemy from Masteries. +10% bonus from masteries. Plus any particular ability or passive that might increase your armor

So with just thrornmail you have have ~228+3.3/enemy [so about 231 to 244 armor]. Add Ninja Tabi [252 <->271]. Add Randuins [324<->348]. Add Sunfire Cape [384<->398] . Add Frozen Heart at 90 armor [483 <-> 497]

So a 3 defensive + boots gets to pretty close to 400 armor for a tank. 4 defensive+boots is around 500 armor.



Most people get Mercs and that's 5 armor items. Giving you just under 400 bonus armor. On most tanks people also tend to get 1-2 offensive items and 1-2 mr items. Eg. a LW or something on Garen or an Abyssal on Maokai.

If thornmail is still balanced it'll be because it's reflecting more damage back towards mages, supports, tanks, maybe fighters, and maybe on-hit builds that rely more on magic damage. Not because thornmail will still be good against the thing it's supposed to be good against: ADCs.

If you auto a tank with Thornmail as Annie or Malzahar, you could take almost as much damage as you dealt to them which is completely unintuitive. Veterans will have to unlearn whether to auto tanks.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
August 04 2015 19:17 GMT
#882
The Darius one is fine. Everything else is really, really bad.

1. Garen: the problem here is that his mark can easily change in a teamfight and it is otherwise unpredictable. Also I see scenarios which he may want one of his allies die so he can get off a true damage ult.

2. Skarner is now Bard v2. Terrible idea and does not address his problems at all.

3. Morde. Ugh.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:21:03
August 04 2015 19:19 GMT
#883
Who the fuck gets Armor Quints? Or actually, who the fuck gets 4 armor items unless they have an AD mid and top?
XDG Mata
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:25:57
August 04 2015 19:24 GMT
#884
On August 05 2015 04:16 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2015 04:00 Goumindong wrote:
On August 05 2015 03:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Yeah let me just get 400 armor. I was of the opinion that Thornmail kept ADC in a delicate balance.


Its not too uncommon. Unless you need to itemize for MR that seems like a pretty standard lategame amount of armor for a tank with 3 defensive items.

Average armor for a bruiser/tank is around 90 Base at level 18. 9 From yellows, 13 from Quints. 5 +3/enemy from Masteries. +10% bonus from masteries. Plus any particular ability or passive that might increase your armor

So with just thrornmail you have have ~228+3.3/enemy [so about 231 to 244 armor]. Add Ninja Tabi [252 <->271]. Add Randuins [324<->348]. Add Sunfire Cape [384<->398] . Add Frozen Heart at 90 armor [483 <-> 497]

So a 3 defensive + boots gets to pretty close to 400 armor for a tank. 4 defensive+boots is around 500 armor.



Most people get Mercs and that's 5 armor items. Giving you a bonus of just under 400 bonus armor. On most tanks people also tend to get 1-2 offensive items and 1-2 mr items. Eg. a LW or something on Garen.



Yea but my statement was that it makes all physical damage teams very difficult. So you shouldn't be getting Merc's and should be getting lots of armor. Boots +3 armor is about 400 total armor [300 bonus or so]. Boots + 4 could be about 500 total[400 bonus] but i would suspect you would get a pure HP item [and swap the

Since everyone auto attacks and you can no longer rely on Thornmail not doing much damage early or against champions who just incidentally auto attack.

On August 05 2015 04:19 Caiada wrote:
Who the fuck gets Armor Quints? Or actually, who the fuck gets 4 armor items unless they have an AD mid and top?


Yes. Its almost as if my initial statement was


Yea. It looks like it entirely neuters full physical comps. You buy thornmail with 400 armor and now ever auto attack does .15[unmodified attack damage] + 75 damage. Break even point is 500 damage/attack. [or Bonus armor/.15], so about 200 damage with just thornmail and rune/mastery armor. [more damage/attack means a nerf to thornmail, less means a buff]
Caiada
Profile Joined January 2015
United States3052 Posts
August 04 2015 19:28 GMT
#885
All-physical teams already sucked. What's the point?
XDG Mata
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
August 04 2015 19:28 GMT
#886
Skarner now turns the game into TT/Dominion lol
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 04 2015 19:32 GMT
#887
I don't understand how skarner fits, stylistically, with these other 3 champions.

Also if the portals give vision that is dumb. That they give gold for destruction is dumb, just like it is for Rek Sai tunnels.
Freeeeeeedom
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
August 04 2015 19:33 GMT
#888
On August 05 2015 04:28 Caiada wrote:
All-physical teams already sucked. What's the point?


largely physical damage teams have weaknesses but are not so weak as you're suggesting.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:36:50
August 04 2015 19:35 GMT
#889
We can't really judge them too much because it look like they are getting kit modifications too. At least morde.

They all look interesting to me, except morde with his current kit being unable to touch towers and being an ADC replacement.

Darius change seems like an unstable feast or famine mechanic that will prove to be a mistake, all Riot's reset champions have been unpleasant disasters at one point and are now nerfed/changed.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:37:05
August 04 2015 19:36 GMT
#890
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.

Skarner is odd. It's sort of interesting but outside of making his clear easier I don't see how it helps him deal with his tricky team fighting issues.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-04 19:43:20
August 04 2015 19:42 GMT
#891
On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.

It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something.
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
August 04 2015 19:45 GMT
#892
Yeah, in terms of intuitive game mechanics it's pretty silly.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Goumindong
Profile Joined February 2013
United States3529 Posts
August 04 2015 19:47 GMT
#893
Its also not good for the game structurally just due to how team fights work
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
August 04 2015 19:55 GMT
#894
On August 05 2015 04:42 Ansibled wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.

It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something.

Inc lich king Morde Skin
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
August 04 2015 20:08 GMT
#895
On August 05 2015 04:55 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 05 2015 04:42 Ansibled wrote:
On August 05 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
Mordekaiser is at least interesting. Being able to put him in an off lane yet still get full experience is a big deal.

It's also incredibly gimmicky, inconsistent and doesn't make a whole lot of sense with how the rest of the game works. You get to fly dragon across the map though so that's something.

Inc lich king Morde Skin


Isn't that just a blue Chroma of one of basically 4 of his skins?
Freeeeeeedom
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14060 Posts
August 04 2015 20:08 GMT
#896
What in the fuck are these changes? I can understand and totaly get behind them making a new class of champ called the juggernaunt but whaaa? not even going to talk about garen beacuse thats dumb. Darius is a step forward but he was always a mistake. Skarner's is just a dumb idea that no one called bullshit on.

Morde sounds like something that was " a really good idea, for a joke" but the for a joke part was left out and was given to their best team who actualy put effort into it.

Morde/nasus bot lane sounds so awesome to me.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
August 04 2015 20:08 GMT
#897
idk they all seem fine except skarner one. maybe i dont understand it properly but the enemy team is basically getting 3 tower things that give them free gold in exchange for skarner being a bit stronger on your home turf. how is that ever a good trade off ever in an even game lol.

also reading the comments on that article is hilarious, all the low elo trash that you forget makes up the majority of the playerbase. WTF RITO BUFFING GAREN AND DARIUS THEY ALREADY THE MOST OP CHAMPS!!

lol dying.
I come in for the scraps
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
August 04 2015 20:09 GMT
#898
The Morde change is interesting, at least with the whole "get Dragon as a temporary specter" thing. It also makes taking dragon much more important for his team, as in theory if you get it and can have at least a bit of control over the specter dragon, you just group as 6 in mid/bot and push down turrets or just rush over to Baron and grab that objective too.

Darius change is simple and makes sense, Garen's ult dealing true damage is probably all it needed and the whole passive tick is going to be hard to balance, and Skarner's change is 'wtf is this shit' levels of dumb. Just turn the damn champion into Sand King already and be done with it Riot.
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
August 04 2015 20:10 GMT
#899
On August 05 2015 05:08 Sermokala wrote:
What in the fuck are these changes? I can understand and totaly get behind them making a new class of champ called the juggernaunt but whaaa? not even going to talk about garen beacuse thats dumb. Darius is a step forward but he was always a mistake. Skarner's is just a dumb idea that no one called bullshit on.

Morde sounds like something that was " a really good idea, for a joke" but the for a joke part was left out and was given to their best team who actualy put effort into it.

Morde/nasus bot lane sounds so awesome to me.


huh? that sounds like the worst lane possible since morde needs the last hits to get the full xp. I cant think of a lane with less synergy.
I come in for the scraps
Ansibled
Profile Joined November 2014
United Kingdom9872 Posts
August 04 2015 20:12 GMT
#900
So on 5.16 the patch just before Worlds we have 4 Champion reworks and a defense itemisation rework. Epic.

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/yMtrbjGs-core-defense-items-pass-516
'StarCraft is just a fairy tale told to scare children actually.'
TL+ Member
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