On June 04 2015 13:29 Saradin wrote: Barring Deficio from only CW games isn't really much of a punishment. Not appearing for a mandatory 1/5 of the games is practically not all that different from the break he'd get rotating out like normal. It'd essentially be a slap on the wrist.
Deficio does NOT even need any form of public punishment. He broke his company's rules due to conflict of interests. He can take a formal warning, a pay cut, or both - privately. No need to shame him publicly.
But they aren't revealing his real punishment. The stuff they revealed is only being revealed IMO because people would ask where he went if they kept that private. They said he was being disciplined internally, and they wouldn't reveal how.
Saradin is right, the "public" punishment isn't a punishment at all.
Come on. Deficio's name was spelt out and he was implicated in a plot in which he had a conflict of interest. Then he couldn't cast (or basically work) for 3 weeks. All of this is published. I don't see how much more public ir can get.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
I take Gnarsie's videos with a grain of salt, but it's pretty interesting to watch:
Can Riot become the next RIM? No one knows. But sometimes the way their management works is a bit head scratching.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
You're vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company sustains from this.
Yea this doesn't really hurt them at all. Riot has out right lied to their playerbase, completely screwed over Korea and yet people just forget about it pretty quickly. Riot could murder a horde of kittens and the internet would forget about it the next week.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
You're vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company sustains from this.
So much so that Riot had to issue a clarification on the matter at 7pm.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
You're vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company sustains from this.
So much so that Riot had to issue a clarification on the matter at 7pm.
Let me clarify then. You were vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company would have sustained before or after the clarification. Before it was next to none, now it's none at all.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
You're vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company sustains from this.
So much so that Riot had to issue a clarification on the matter at 7pm.
Let me clarify then. You were vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company would have sustained before or after the clarification. Before it was next to none, now it's none at all.
Of course, the actual ruling has little effect. Its the culture implicit in the ruling that has already significantly affected Riot.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
You're vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company sustains from this.
So much so that Riot had to issue a clarification on the matter at 7pm.
Let me clarify then. You were vastly overestimating how much damage Riot as a company would have sustained before or after the clarification. Before it was next to none, now it's none at all.
Of course, the actual ruling has little effect. Its the culture implicit in the ruling that has already significantly affected Riot.
On June 04 2015 13:58 Saradin wrote: 'down the road' is not just Deficio. It's a warning shot for the rest of your current, and future, employees. A nip it in the bud sort of mentality.
Well its also telling potential future employees (and those with contracts upcoming) that they should demand significantly higher salaries from Riot than from comparable corps. Its somewhat short-sighted, because right now many of their employees are basically LOL-only personalities, but this could be a reason not many respected people are flowing into the dev side of the company, and it may be why Monte is so reluctant to become an LCS caster and Joe/Deman preferred migrating to other games with far less exposure.
It will be very interesting to see if Riot is a 1-hit wonder developer or if they can expand. Because many of their moves do seem to assume that their brand is built on being an elite company with ingenious ideas, instead of a few, somewhat lucky things they did in 2008, 09, 10 plus institutional momentum
Yes, this is exactly the problem I see. LCS's reputation was possibly retained, but I see this as a damaging move to Riot as a whole due to how Deficio was treated. Riot needs to understand that Deficio is a freaking employee of Riot and not some random person.
I take Gnarsie's videos with a grain of salt, but it's pretty interesting to watch:
Why should I care what a random youtuber who only wants to stir drama says in accordance to rito policies in the workplace?
I'm assuming that Riot had a perfectly legitimate reason, and they may have screwed up a little with the punishment. I highly doubt that this was a malicious corporate atmosphere designed to choke up the competition.
Riot's employees tend to be satisfied with Riot. I'm too lazy to find sources, but Riot appears on multiple lists as one of the best companies to work for.
It boggles me that we're trying to accuse of riot doing things when there were potentially huge conflicts of interests that rito decided not to release, and their clarification kind of settles things. I wouldn't have handled it in that way, but it surely doesn't seem that Deficio or anyone actually in the industry are necessarily complaining.
On June 04 2015 12:24 cLutZ wrote: I actually really like DOA's take. Its basically 100% my take, based on available information. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smgreq
DOA makes a fair point about how it's unreasonable to expect employees to report all job offers they receive, but I don't think that point is relevant in this case. To quote the ruling,
"Although it’s not unusual for Rioters to be approached with offers from LCS organizations, it’s important that the organization and Rioter let us know as soon as an offer is made to raise awareness around potential conflicts of interest."
Riot's being pretty specific about expecting employees to let them know if they receive job offers from LCS teams, because that raises potential conflicts of interest. That's a completely reasonable policy, as far as I'm concerned.
There are no conflicts of interest in this instance because the information that deficio receives is expected to be public and because "a more favorable cast" isn't worth anything. What Riot is doing is almost definitely against US and European labor law with regards to anti-competitive behavior.
The punishment of "not taking job offers" is 100% illegal anti-competitive behavior. Non-competes MUST be based around taking trade secrets with you or they are illegal. (IANAL: but pretty damned sure on this one)
On June 04 2015 09:04 wei2coolman wrote: What bugs me about the whole thing is the lack of rule citing from Riot. Normally they'll post part of the players contract to specify why and how the player or organization has broken a rule.
None for dentist nor deficio's employee contract
They probably don't have to for dentist. His actions were defamatory/slander and so would fall under any boilerplate "don't do anything illegal" portion of a contract.
On June 05 2015 07:16 Goumindong wrote:Non-competes MUST be based around taking trade secrets with you or they are illegal. (IANAL: but pretty damned sure on this one)
My non-compete straight up says I cannot work for X companies after I leave this one for Y period of time after leaving.
On June 05 2015 07:16 Goumindong wrote:Non-competes MUST be based around taking trade secrets with you or they are illegal. (IANAL: but pretty damned sure on this one)
My non-compete straight up says I cannot work for X companies after I leave this one for Y period of time after leaving.
Then that is almost assuredly either
A) Illegal
or
B) covered by a trade secrets(or other such) exemption which will not exist here because LCS casting is not a trade secret and information given to casters is expected to be made public.
edit: In any case the new non-compete with deficio would be voided by any court since he gains no consideration for its exercise
On June 05 2015 07:16 Goumindong wrote:Non-competes MUST be based around taking trade secrets with you or they are illegal. (IANAL: but pretty damned sure on this one)
My non-compete straight up says I cannot work for X companies after I leave this one for Y period of time after leaving.
Then that is almost assuredly either
A) Illegal
or
B) covered by a trade secrets(or other such) exemption which will not exist here because LCS casting is not a trade secret and information given to casters is expected to be made public.
edit: In any case the new non-compete with deficio would be voided by any court since he gains no consideration for its exercise
Nope. Restrictive covenant clauses are extremely common. Whether or not they can hold up in court is subject to debate, but good luck suing a big company.
On June 04 2015 12:24 cLutZ wrote: I actually really like DOA's take. Its basically 100% my take, based on available information. http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smgreq
DOA makes a fair point about how it's unreasonable to expect employees to report all job offers they receive, but I don't think that point is relevant in this case. To quote the ruling,
"Although it’s not unusual for Rioters to be approached with offers from LCS organizations, it’s important that the organization and Rioter let us know as soon as an offer is made to raise awareness around potential conflicts of interest."
Riot's being pretty specific about expecting employees to let them know if they receive job offers from LCS teams, because that raises potential conflicts of interest. That's a completely reasonable policy, as far as I'm concerned.
There are no conflicts of interest in this instance because the information that deficio receives is expected to be public and because "a more favorable cast" isn't worth anything. What Riot is doing is almost definitely against US and European labor law with regards to anti-competitive behavior.
The punishment of "not taking job offers" is 100% illegal anti-competitive behavior. Non-competes MUST be based around taking trade secrets with you or they are illegal. (IANAL: but pretty damned sure on this one)
On June 04 2015 09:04 wei2coolman wrote: What bugs me about the whole thing is the lack of rule citing from Riot. Normally they'll post part of the players contract to specify why and how the player or organization has broken a rule.
None for dentist nor deficio's employee contract
They probably don't have to for dentist. His actions were defamatory/slander and so would fall under any boilerplate "don't do anything illegal" portion of a contract.
Then they should have cited that contract, they've done the same for other players and organizations, and in those rulings as well.
Relevant Rules 8.2.4 Discrimination and Denigration Team Members may not offend the dignity or integrity of a country, private person, or group of people through contemptuous, discriminatory, or denigrating words or actions on account of race, skin color, ethnic, national or social origin, gender, language, religion, political opinion or any other opinion, financial status, birth or any other status, sexual orientation or any other reason.
8.2.2 Harassment Harassment is forbidden. Harassment is defined as systematic, hostile, and repeated acts taking place over a considerable period of time, which are intended to isolate or ostracize a person and/or affect the dignity of the person.
8.2.7 Player Behavior Investigation If Riot determines that a Team Member has violated the Summoner’s Code, the LoL Terms of Service, or other rules of LoL, Riot officials may assign penalties at their sole discretion.
In addition, each OPL organisation signs an agreement with Riot which includes an immediate right of termination if “the Team Owner fails to manage its Team Members or Team Managers effectively and such failure causes, or would reasonably be expected to cause, harm to the League or other OPL teams or players, including harm that follows as a consequence of the Team Members or Team Managers repeatedly failing or refusing to obey the Rules or the written instructions of the League issued pursuant to the Rules” or if “a Team Member or Team Manager commits any act or becomes involved in any situation or occurrence which the League believes, in its sole judgment, brings the Team, Team Member or Team Manager into public disrepute, scandal or ridicule, or shocks or offends the community, or derogates from her/his/its public image or reflects unfavorably upon the LoL Game, the League or any League Entity.”
This situation really gave me a good chuckle. I don't think anyone deserves any punishment, but I understand why Riot's doing this. If I was Dentist I would be super pissed at the team. It was obviously someone on the team that told Riot. In my book snitches get stitches.
So, the real villain here is the pussy player on the Wolves that snitched on Dentist.
On June 05 2015 09:05 Sonnington wrote: This situation really gave me a good chuckle. I don't think anyone deserves any punishment, but I understand why Riot's doing this. If I was Dentist I would be super pissed at the team. It was obviously someone on the team that told Riot. In my book snitches get stitches.
So, the real villain here is the pussy player on the Wolves that snitched on Dentist.
On June 05 2015 09:05 Sonnington wrote: This situation really gave me a good chuckle. I don't think anyone deserves any punishment, but I understand why Riot's doing this. If I was Dentist I would be super pissed at the team. It was obviously someone on the team that told Riot. In my book snitches get stitches.
So, the real villain here is the pussy player on the Wolves that snitched on Dentist.
The villain is the guy who can't respect the sanctity of competition. No respect for Dentist.
Holy shit. I can't believe how many of you are condoning snitching. The SS, KGB, and thought police from 1984 would -love- you guys. How about this for a novel idea, if you don't like what your coach is doing you confront him yourself -like fucking a man- rather than snitching on him to Riot?
EPT
