|
On June 04 2015 06:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 06:21 BrownBear wrote:On June 04 2015 05:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Hacking the game to make your ability cooldown go from 24s to 20s is cheating...
Finding out what strategy your opponents are using isn't cheating, it's called preparationl. (and he didn't even do it to boot)... Condoning the solicitation of leaks is just as bad as leaks themselves, from a competitive integrity point of view. The fact that he implied there was a Riot employee involved just makes it that much scummier. Or or or, it adds complexity to the preparation, both in and out of the game, thus differentiating the good teams from the great teams. It's a very hazy line that Riot is drawing here on what is and isn't acceptable.
It doesn't add complexity to the preparation, it adds a sub-game of who can spy on the other team better. That doesn't add anything to the game, it detracts from it.
There's a reason professional sports have rules against this sort of behavior, and it's not because the people who laid down the rules were philosophy majors.
|
Doesnt make me think less of Deficio, but that kind of stuff does need to be punished. One and a half years banned from LCS teams is pretty steep, I think just the week 4 ban plus banned til next springs split would've been better
|
The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 04 2015 06:57 MajorityofOne wrote:
Doesnt make me think less of Deficio, but that kind of stuff does need to be punished. One and a half years banned from LCS teams is pretty steep, I think just the week 4 ban plus banned til next springs split would've been better
He got banned from casting for 2 weeks, hello.
It's not like he got banned for 1,5 years from casting best team in best league on the planet.
|
On June 04 2015 06:17 wei2coolman wrote:
wtf, this came out of left field. lol.
wat, if i'm reading this correctly. what did deficio do that was so damning, much less anything that warrants any action?
At this point, all riot casters should avoid talking to anyone that isn't strictly a Riot employee. So fucking absurd.
He was offered a manager position at CW after this season, did not inform Riot about it as he was supposed to and talked to players about future career options at CW. So basically he took advantage of his position as Riot caster to engage in poaching for his future team. Although it is not exactly poaching as he was not employed by CW yet.
I dont really get why people have such problems understanding why this is a problem. And then whine at he next opportunity that Riot is not upholding competetive integrity.
If Riot had only banned him from casting for a little like some people want then that would achieve nothing. It would mean that Deficio could still go to CW at the start of next season with the players he poached just like he wanted to. He could not care less about not casting for a while.
So the ban simply prevents him from taking advantage of his misconduct.
|
i wonder what role richard lewis plays in this whole affair...
|
On June 04 2015 06:53 Ansibled wrote:
I don't really understand how not disclosing a job offer, if that's the only thing Deficio did (?), ends up in a 1.5 year ban from being involved in LCS in addition to the other punishment. Why does Deficio even have a 'competitive ruling' when he's not involved in the actual competition?
Honestly you guys are straight up bad at reading. Let me quote the deciding part:
Over the course of our investigation we found evidence indicating that Deficio had begun speaking with several active LCS players - contracted and free agents - about their future and the possibility of working with them on the Copenhagen Wolves.
If he had only gotten a job offer and not disclosed it like you said he would very likely not have been banned for next season.
|
Deficio should look for casting CSGO 
|
lol, now as internal punishment they reduce his wage and he cant get another league job for 2 years from the competetive ruling.
Genius.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 04 2015 05:12 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I don't get it. Dentist did nothing wrong? Deficio did nothing wrong? Why are they being punished.
What do you mean Dentist did nothing wrong? He told his players that Deficio was leaking them SK information, which is pretty horrible slander (+ the entire encouraging leaking information thing). I'm surprised he didn't get fired over this.
On June 04 2015 05:25 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Hacking the game to make your ability cooldown go from 24s to 20s is cheating...
Finding out what strategy your opponents are using isn't cheating, it's called preparationl. (and he didn't even do it to boot)...
well, it goes like this: leaking information of teams that implicitly trust you is really bad, so receiving that information and using it endorses and condones really bad behavior. Saying that you are willing to keep taking advantage of someone else's really bad behavior kinda encourages it. Besides being incredibly fucking stupid.
|
On June 04 2015 07:31 LaNague wrote:
lol, now as internal punishment they reduce his wage and he cant get another league job for 2 years from the competetive ruling.
Genius.
I agree. But I guess Riot thinks Deficio has no other career options beside being a caster for LoL. I think that's awfully presumptuous of them.
For one, Deficio could cast other games, bringing his fans to Riot's competitors. Also, Deficio can still work for CW except he can't work as the head coach (which is handled by Dentist anyway) so the ban is more or less meaningless.
All I see is more PR nightmare:
1. There is really no point in releasing what happened to Deficio. All it does is releasing certain disciplinary information regarding an employee, which I feel should be confidential.
2. It fits perfectly in RL's narrative of Riot's tight control (even casters are tightly controlled) - and RL is right on this. I wonder what other perspective employees of Riot will think.
|
This entire thing is so stupid. I mean, I work in biology research and people are careful in what they tell fellow colleagues, collaborators, and even the same people in the lab because of authorship disputes, getting their ideas poached, and all this other shit so eh. You always have to be careful in what you say to people in the same field when you're working under different employers because stupid shit can happen.
In the case of Deficio, it reminds me of when a grad student wants to leave his/her PI's lab and waits until the last second to tell them, because usually if you tell them beforehand (depending on the PI ofc), there is a high chance they will cut your funding/fire you outright before you start working somewhere else.
The whole Dentist thing is lololol. I'm surprised they are only suspending him to Week 4 given their ruling on Deficio. Whatever, usual Riot inconsistencies.
There's a reason why other fields have tons of paperwork you have to file on Conflicts of Interest. I dunno, I find the whole thing just stupid, unless I'm misunderstanding something in the Riot statement and Deficio's personal post.
|
On June 04 2015 07:59 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 07:31 LaNague wrote:
lol, now as internal punishment they reduce his wage and he cant get another league job for 2 years from the competetive ruling.
Genius. I agree. But I guess Riot thinks Deficio has no other career options beside being a caster for LoL. I think that's awfully presumptuous of them. For one, Deficio could cast other games, bringing his fans to Riot's competitors. Also, Deficio can still work for CW except he can't work as the head coach (which is handled by Dentist anyway) so the ban is more or less meaningless. All I see is more PR nightmare: 1. There is really no point in releasing what happened to Deficio. All it does is releasing certain disciplinary information regarding an employee, which I feel should be confidential. 2. It fits perfectly in RL's narrative of Riot's tight control (even casters are tightly controlled) - and RL is right on this. I wonder what other perspective employees of Riot will think.
If they had done what you suggest in point 1 people would have said "Oh Riot keeps sweeping things under the rug for PR reasons" or even "So CLG is not allowed to poach but Riot employees are, such double standards."
|
#2 isn't an issue.
If you want to work at a major tech company in the US you're going to run into mandatory training about workplace ethics and problems with conflicts of interest. Maybe some young, idealistic college grads will fret about how much control Riot has, but the fact is that your average tech company has at least this much control when it comes to anything that relates to your job.
The only difference here is that because this particular incident involved a public-facing employee Riot made some details of the matter, primarily those the public would have noticed and asked about.
|
On June 04 2015 08:07 Seuss wrote:
#2 isn't an issue.
If you want to work at a major tech company in the US you're going to run into mandatory training about workplace ethics and problems with conflicts of interest. Maybe some young, idealistic college grads will fret about how much control Riot has, but the fact is that your average tech company has at least this much control when it comes to anything that relates to your job.
The only difference here is that because this particular incident involved a public-facing employee Riot made some details of the matter, primarily those the public would have noticed and asked about.
Major tech companies don't usually publically flex their muscles like this. What Riot did is reasonable and within their rights - the issue isn't if they could penalize Deficio, it's whether or not they SHOULD.
|
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On June 04 2015 08:11 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 08:07 Seuss wrote:
#2 isn't an issue.
If you want to work at a major tech company in the US you're going to run into mandatory training about workplace ethics and problems with conflicts of interest. Maybe some young, idealistic college grads will fret about how much control Riot has, but the fact is that your average tech company has at least this much control when it comes to anything that relates to your job.
The only difference here is that because this particular incident involved a public-facing employee Riot made some details of the matter, primarily those the public would have noticed and asked about. Major tech companies don't usually publically flex their muscles like this. What Riot did is reasonable and within their rights - the issue isn't if they could penalize Deficio, it's whether or not they SHOULD.
Yes? Having your caster poach players for a possible team he's planning IS a faux pas that should be punished. Wtf?
Despite what Deficio's statement may imply, you don't stumble and mistake your way into planning a team and poaching players without noticing that what you're doing is against the rules.
|
On June 04 2015 08:11 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 08:07 Seuss wrote:
#2 isn't an issue.
If you want to work at a major tech company in the US you're going to run into mandatory training about workplace ethics and problems with conflicts of interest. Maybe some young, idealistic college grads will fret about how much control Riot has, but the fact is that your average tech company has at least this much control when it comes to anything that relates to your job.
The only difference here is that because this particular incident involved a public-facing employee Riot made some details of the matter, primarily those the public would have noticed and asked about. Major tech companies don't usually publically flex their muscles like this. What Riot did is reasonable and within their rights - the issue isn't if they could penalize Deficio, it's whether or not they SHOULD.
They do when it's someone who acts as a public face of the company. Not always, it varies from company to company, but it this isn't really an exceptional case.
|
LCS has some of the dumbest rules and enforcement ever. I've honestly never heard athletes getting into the same shit when they obviously talk a shit ton behind the scenes. People talk about "poaching" as if it's like someone beat the shit out of someone.
|
If we assume the worst possible situation, that he was possibly leaving and was recruiting players under contract, then the punishment makes sense. If we assume he was pondering a job offer, and was talking to people who talk to him regardless, then it does not and is a considerable overreach by Riot, who then appear to be punishing Deficio for having the gall to consider a different line of employment.
The poaching rules do need to be looked at by Riot, in general, because they are very restrictive compared to other sports. Or, if not more restrictive, more vigorously enforced because the players can't all afford to fly to the Bahamas to talk about their future (NBA/NFL) and instead do it over electronic media that leave a paper trail.
|
On June 04 2015 08:14 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 08:11 Sufficiency wrote:On June 04 2015 08:07 Seuss wrote:
#2 isn't an issue.
If you want to work at a major tech company in the US you're going to run into mandatory training about workplace ethics and problems with conflicts of interest. Maybe some young, idealistic college grads will fret about how much control Riot has, but the fact is that your average tech company has at least this much control when it comes to anything that relates to your job.
The only difference here is that because this particular incident involved a public-facing employee Riot made some details of the matter, primarily those the public would have noticed and asked about. Major tech companies don't usually publically flex their muscles like this. What Riot did is reasonable and within their rights - the issue isn't if they could penalize Deficio, it's whether or not they SHOULD. Yes? Having your caster poach players for a possible team he's planning IS a faux pas that should be punished. Wtf? Despite what Deficio's statement may imply, you don't stumble and mistake your way into planning a team and poaching players without noticing that what you're doing is against the rules.
It doesn't matter if you think Deficio is a scum or not. The problem is whether or not his punishment should be made public.
And no, "people will eventually figure out" is not an acceptable excuse for publishing these information.
|
On June 04 2015 07:12 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2015 06:53 Ansibled wrote:
I don't really understand how not disclosing a job offer, if that's the only thing Deficio did (?), ends up in a 1.5 year ban from being involved in LCS in addition to the other punishment. Why does Deficio even have a 'competitive ruling' when he's not involved in the actual competition? Honestly you guys are straight up bad at reading. Let me quote the deciding part: Show nested quote +Over the course of our investigation we found evidence indicating that Deficio had begun speaking with several active LCS players - contracted and free agents - about their future and the possibility of working with them on the Copenhagen Wolves. If he had only gotten a job offer and not disclosed it like you said he would very likely not have been banned for next season.
This is pretty vague though, I mean this could just be what is essentially 'Hi I got this CW offer what do you think of them?'
How can an active LCS player be a free agent?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
