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gg ez discussion will not be continued in GD following this post |
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I take it back, teut was insulting people too. I forgot the lance Armstrong comment holy shit teutonica.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the argument went like this:
1. Mid should almost always get blue.
2. In Korea, they follow 1, in NA they do not.
3. This indicates a problem that holds back NA from producing talent.
Then, what happened was a bunch of nonsense, my sweet MS Paint graphs excepted.
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I thought that remark was completely justified though. Hilarious too.
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Point 2 was never proven though. In fact the only evidence presented disproved it.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Show nested quote +Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules."
No, not everyone agrees
some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear
but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway
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Cheep probly just has ptsd from laning against an oriana with blue buff while his jungler was faming the shit out of wraiths with theirs i know i do
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway
Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action.
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ex silentio:
I said that you speculated something. You said "easyhoon said this" while I can easily say "easyhoon didn't say this"
I didn't draw any conclusions, you were the one drawing conclusions, therefore you were in the wrong.
onus probandi:
Don't really understand this one so whatever. Why should I have to claim the opposite? There isn't necessarily a dichotomy to your idea.
false analogy:
Why is it false? " in case of a 50/50 disagreement you should cede it to the guy who's more likely to be right (even if it's for the wrong reasons)." The person who is most likely to be right is the jungler by my assessment.
You are misusing statistics here unless the players are so bad as to not be able to analyse the game better than the most general statistics.
ad absurdio:
Teut: "No, its a disagreement between these two parties who both have their own heuristic on how the game is optimally played"
Cheep:"That's only true if you dispute the notion that mid should get more blue more often than jungler overall. Which is a completely different argument."
this is fucking ad absurdio
the fact that mid gets blue more overall is taken into account by both players already
Ignoratio elenchi: relevant conclusion for players unsure what to do, which is what you mentioned. very relevant elenchi.
ad hominems: these werent used to support my argument these were conclusions drawn from your argument :3
On May 21 2015 05:12 Ketara wrote:
I take it back, teut was insulting people too. I forgot the lance Armstrong comment holy shit teutonica.
was epic LOL
I am sticking in subtle diggs nobody noticed for so long
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action.
it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do
I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler
the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct
And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information.
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On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Show nested quote +Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules."
"my jungle my rules" does not necessarily mean you don't give mid to blue
False equivalence
Whats the latin for that
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Also the mentality "My jungle my rules" is usually very open to the possibility of giving middle laners blue buff in case you hadn't noticed.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information.
On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information.
No one is disputing that you may very well be correct in any given situation, but over many games and many blue buffs, junglers give blue much less than they "should" if the goal is to maximize chances of winning.
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On May 21 2015 05:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. No one is disputing that you may very well be correct in any given situation, but over many games and many blue buffs, junglers give blue much less than they "should" if the goal is to maximize chances of winning.
Where is your evidence to support this claim?
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:24 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. No one is disputing that you may very well be correct in any given situation, but over many games and many blue buffs, junglers give blue much less than they "should" if the goal is to maximize chances of winning. Where is your evidence to support this claim?
It's what launched this whole discussion- http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/485388-patch-59-ashe-rework-general-discussion?page=28#544
Which, ironically, you didn't agree with [jungler taking blue]
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sample size of 25 and loaded question
being entitled to blue and "entitled" to blue are different
a 0/5 orianna isnt entitled to blue
It's not ironic at all. I generally think jungler shouldn't take blue BUT if your mid laner is doing blue buff on his own (lik in the opposite situation of taking red and drive by smite) then you should let him have it because of the large investment unless he's like katarina and trolling
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:25 Slayer91 wrote:
sample size of 25 and loaded question
being entitled to blue and "entitled" to blue are different
a 0/5 orianna isnt entitled to blue
Nah the red buff poll was a loaded question, this one is a pretty simple what would you do question.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. No one is disputing that you may very well be correct in any given situation, but over many games and many blue buffs, junglers give blue much less than they "should" if the goal is to maximize chances of winning.
I'd dare say that the current rate of blue buff gifts in masters EUW is much closer to the ideal than giving blue buff to the middle laner whenever he wants it just because the word heuristics exists. Which is why I said your generalization is both useless and retarded and why it's worthwhile to discuss only details. Because mentally and play-wise we are all light years ahead of your original argument.
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On May 21 2015 05:26 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:25 Slayer91 wrote:
sample size of 25 and loaded question
being entitled to blue and "entitled" to blue are different
a 0/5 orianna isnt entitled to blue Nah the red buff poll was a loaded question, this one is a pretty simple what would you do question.
it wasn't a what would you do question? It was a question of mid being entitled to blue which they arent but it doesnt mean they shouldn't get it most of the time
in any case obviously afking/trolling is never the right response so its pretty irrelevant to anything but how childish league players are
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 21 2015 05:26 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. On May 21 2015 05:19 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:17 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:15 Scip wrote:On May 21 2015 05:10 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 04:52 Scip wrote:
What about being more specific?
Yes, mid should get blue more often than jungle, so you could say that in case of disagreement middle should get the blue.
But in game you ALWAYS have more info to go off of.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and manaless middle, second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding AND has little waveclear then second blue should usually go to jungler. So in case of disagreement jungler should get blue.
If you have a jungler who uses a lot of mana and the middle laner is feeding BUT has a lot of mana based waveclear then second blue should usually go to the middle laner. So in case of disagreement middle laner should get blue.
etc. I mean this is more the along Ketara's point of "everyone agrees anyways" which is why there's not much point discussing them down to the last detail. Cheep isn't wrong in principle it's just his generalization is so fucking massive to the point of being both useless and retarded. The conclusion that I want to draw is junglers should be more open to the idea of giving mid blue instead of falling into the mentality of "my jungle my rules." No, not everyone agrees some middle laners will tell you they should get blue even when feeding on a champion without waveclear but I just use the word heuristics to justify me taking blue anyway Well it's irrelevant what they tell you because you have smite, right? Mid laners are the disenfranchised and oppressed demographic, and we need blue buff affirmative action. it's not irrelevant because we are talking not just about what I do but also about what I should do I think I have very good reasons to not give feeding middle laners without waveclear blue buff when I'm on a mana hungry jungler the fact the decision rests ultimately with me doesn't make my decision any less correct And you're wrong about it not being worth to discuss to the last detail. That is the ONLY discussion that has any worth. Because in games you have access to all kinds of detailed information. No one is disputing that you may very well be correct in any given situation, but over many games and many blue buffs, junglers give blue much less than they "should" if the goal is to maximize chances of winning. I'd dare say that the current rate of blue buff gifts in masters EUW is much closer to the ideal than giving blue buff to the middle laner whenever he wants it just because the word heuristics exists. Which is why I said your generalization is both useless and retarded and why it's worthwhile to discuss only details. Because mentally and play-wise we are all light years ahead of your original argument.
Do you have a quantitative measure of the rate of blue buff gifts?
(Ignoring the implications of the word "gift")
On May 21 2015 05:27 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2015 05:26 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On May 21 2015 05:25 Slayer91 wrote:
sample size of 25 and loaded question
being entitled to blue and "entitled" to blue are different
a 0/5 orianna isnt entitled to blue Nah the red buff poll was a loaded question, this one is a pretty simple what would you do question. it wasn't a what would you do question? It was a question of mid being entitled to blue which they arent but it doesnt mean they shouldn't get it most of the time
IDK it read like a pretty simple/straightforward/non-loaded question to me.
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EPT
