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gg ez discussion will not be continued in GD following this post |
On May 20 2015 04:30 SagaZ wrote:
Yeah, if you're at the point where you take time and damage doing red buff, you probably shouldn't be taking it in the first place. Go back to lane like a good boy while the jungler actually uses the red buff to do stuff
Also if it's 20 minute mark, and you're taking damage from redbuff, it means either
A) you're so far behind, you don't need the redbuff
B) you don't know how to kite properly, you're still useless, you don't' need redbuff.
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On May 20 2015 04:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:30 SagaZ wrote:
Yeah, if you're at the point where you take time and damage doing red buff, you probably shouldn't be taking it in the first place. Go back to lane like a good boy while the jungler actually uses the red buff to do stuff Also if it's 20 minute mark, and you're taking damage from redbuff, it means either A) you're so far behind, you don't need the redbuff B) you don't know how to kite properly, you're still useless, you don't' need redbuff.
is that true? adc usually take a lot of dmg doing buffs cause you're not rushing lifesteal early (unless you're vayne/twitch/etc), especially at 20 minutes, which is the fourth red. if you have ie/parts of a pd/shiv i think you'd still take some dmg and time to do red buff solo.
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If you kite it properly you shouldnt take more than 100 dmg.
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On May 20 2015 04:45 lightandshadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:41 wei2coolman wrote:On May 20 2015 04:30 SagaZ wrote:
Yeah, if you're at the point where you take time and damage doing red buff, you probably shouldn't be taking it in the first place. Go back to lane like a good boy while the jungler actually uses the red buff to do stuff Also if it's 20 minute mark, and you're taking damage from redbuff, it means either A) you're so far behind, you don't need the redbuff B) you don't know how to kite properly, you're still useless, you don't' need redbuff. is that true? adc usually take a lot of dmg doing buffs cause you're not rushing lifesteal early (unless you're vayne/twitch/etc), especially at 20 minutes, which is the fourth red. if you have ie/parts of a pd/shiv i think you'd still take some dmg and time to do red buff solo.
Well, since most ADC's are ranged and the buff is melee, you shouldn't take much damage at all, 200 max I think.
Also, you should have enough damage to finish the buff before 5 resets.
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On May 20 2015 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
depends on the champ really, if you autoattack quite a bit then red is better on jungler then adc (people seem to forget the slow is stronger on melees)
i dont play adc much but if some one did that I know I would just start split pushing all game, thats my go to cant get banned for it but still trolling thing.
In a team fight Red is always better on the AD (providing the AD isn't useless). If you're not to team fighting stages, or you do a lot of skirmishing, then red can be better on the jungler.
Its not about how much you auto attack its about what phase the game is in. If you're team fighting red won't do enough for your jungler to matter but red will help your ADC kite. If you're not team fighting red is probably best on your jungler
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On May 20 2015 04:55 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
depends on the champ really, if you autoattack quite a bit then red is better on jungler then adc (people seem to forget the slow is stronger on melees)
i dont play adc much but if some one did that I know I would just start split pushing all game, thats my go to cant get banned for it but still trolling thing. In a team fight Red is always better on the AD (providing the AD isn't useless). If you're not to team fighting stages, or you do a lot of skirmishing, then red can be better on the jungler. Its not about how much you auto attack its about what phase the game is in. If you're team fighting red won't do enough for your jungler to matter but red will help your ADC kite. If you're not team fighting red is probably best on your jungler
Not even close to true depends on teamcomps.Plenty of situations where the red buff would be much stronger on someone who is diving.
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On May 20 2015 04:57 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:55 Goumindong wrote:On May 20 2015 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
depends on the champ really, if you autoattack quite a bit then red is better on jungler then adc (people seem to forget the slow is stronger on melees)
i dont play adc much but if some one did that I know I would just start split pushing all game, thats my go to cant get banned for it but still trolling thing. In a team fight Red is always better on the AD (providing the AD isn't useless). If you're not to team fighting stages, or you do a lot of skirmishing, then red can be better on the jungler. Its not about how much you auto attack its about what phase the game is in. If you're team fighting red won't do enough for your jungler to matter but red will help your ADC kite. If you're not team fighting red is probably best on your jungler Not even close to true depends on teamcomps.Plenty of situations where the red buff would be much stronger on someone who is diving.
If you're diving there are 8 situations which compose of you having red or not, and the AD having red or not and whether or not you're next to the enemy.
If you're on top of the AD then
Red/Red: You stick to them
Red/Clear: You stick to them
Clear/Red: You stick to them
Clear/Clear: You stick to them
Red buff alone is typically not enough for an AD to run away from a bruiser while still attacking the bruiser.
If you're not on top of the AD (you've been peeled/they dashed/your dash is down)
Red/Red: They kite you
Red/Clear: You Close
Clear/Red: They kite you
Clear/Clear: You close
As you can see having red buff or not doesn't make much difference. More or less, you're either on top of them where you win, or you're not where you win ONLY if they don't have red buff. And whether or not you're on top of them depends on their allied peel and your dash but not whether or not you have red buff, since you can't apply red buff at range.
When you're skirmishing its super important because the slow lets you catch enemies for your allies to catch up. The number of attacks your champion does doesn't really matter because red is a refreshing 3 second DoT and so doesn't gain any DPS from increased attack speed unless your attack speed is under .33... which it is not
*this could be wrong but that is what the wiki says. I always thought that increasing the attack speed got you the first tick of the Dot again
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Problem is soloqueue is not arranged play.
-People don't look for teamfights at 20 minutes, especially not the adc, it's more 2-3 man scrapping around the map that happens.
-If teamfight happens for something like dragon, most of the times red buff wont even be up or on someone, having red buff on an adc doesn't mean the team will look for a fight.
-This timeline is when the adc can't really go trough the enemy tank yet and will probably get one shot by something random since sololanes are at their peak.
Redbuff should be better on the jungler at this point in time, except some fringe cases, but also, it is more likely to see action on the jungler.
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Keep in mind that in this case the jungler isn't taking red from the start, but literally drive-by steals it. I think that's what needs to be emphasized more than effectiveness of red at 20 on adc vs jungler
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On May 20 2015 05:07 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 04:57 nafta wrote:On May 20 2015 04:55 Goumindong wrote:On May 20 2015 04:24 VayneAuthority wrote:
depends on the champ really, if you autoattack quite a bit then red is better on jungler then adc (people seem to forget the slow is stronger on melees)
i dont play adc much but if some one did that I know I would just start split pushing all game, thats my go to cant get banned for it but still trolling thing. In a team fight Red is always better on the AD (providing the AD isn't useless). If you're not to team fighting stages, or you do a lot of skirmishing, then red can be better on the jungler. Its not about how much you auto attack its about what phase the game is in. If you're team fighting red won't do enough for your jungler to matter but red will help your ADC kite. If you're not team fighting red is probably best on your jungler Not even close to true depends on teamcomps.Plenty of situations where the red buff would be much stronger on someone who is diving. If you're diving there are 8 situations which compose of you having red or not, and the AD having red or not and whether or not you're next to the enemy. If you're on top of the AD then Red/Red: You stick to them Red/Clear: You stick to them Clear/Red: You stick to them Clear/Clear: You stick to them Red buff alone is typically not enough for an AD to run away from a bruiser while still attacking the bruiser. If you're not on top of the AD (you've been peeled/they dashed/your dash is down) Red/Red: They kite you Red/Clear: You Close Clear/Red: They kite you Clear/Clear: You close As you can see having red buff or not doesn't make much difference. More or less, you're either on top of them where you win, or you're not where you win ONLY if they don't have red buff. And whether or not you're on top of them depends on their allied peel and your dash but not whether or not you have red buff, since you can't apply red buff at range. When you're skirmishing its super important because the slow lets you catch enemies for your allies to catch up. The number of attacks your champion does doesn't really matter because red is a refreshing 3 second DoT and so doesn't gain any DPS from increased attack speed unless your attack speed is under .33... which it is not *this could be wrong but that is what the wiki says. I always thought that increasing the attack speed got you the first tick of the Dot again
jinx(fed)/thresh/vlad(behind)/reksai/leblanc(fed) vs maokai(ahead)/ww(fed)/kassadin/sivir(behind)/naut
so both teams should give red buff to ad and it is not debatable?
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On May 20 2015 05:14 thejuju wrote:
Keep in mind that in this case the jungler isn't taking red from the start, but literally drive-by steals it. I think that's what needs to be emphasized more than effectiveness of red at 20 on adc vs jungler
Who said it was the AD's to take in the first place?
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On May 20 2015 03:35 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 03:32 TheYango wrote:
TBH I feel like her passive mechanic is just a test-bed for them to see how alternative crit mechanics with lower variance work out. If it goes over well we might see a larger overhaul of how crit works in the game. They said multiple times, including before, and right after announcing Ashe as a result of the same question, that they actually like how crit works atm.
They also said this would be a buff to support Ashe. They say a lot of bullshit just so people don't get upset.
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On May 20 2015 04:04 Vegetarian Wolf wrote:
Hypothetical scenario help-
It's ~20 minutes into the game and you're playing ADC. You're doing red buff (took some time and damage doing it), and then your jungler walks by and smites it without a word.
What would you do next?
I'd say sorry for forgetting how to distribute buffs are for the jungler to decide.
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On May 20 2015 05:14 thejuju wrote:
Keep in mind that in this case the jungler isn't taking red from the start, but literally drive-by steals it. I think that's what needs to be emphasized more than effectiveness of red at 20 on adc vs jungler
if its better on him then good guy ADC for helping him take it
edit: how behind/ if you're team fighting, yes.
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On May 20 2015 05:24 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2015 05:14 thejuju wrote:
Keep in mind that in this case the jungler isn't taking red from the start, but literally drive-by steals it. I think that's what needs to be emphasized more than effectiveness of red at 20 on adc vs jungler if its better on him then good guy ADC for helping him take it edit: how behind/ if you're team fighting, yes.
hahah exactly, thanks the the leash bro! happyface
meanwhile salty adc plots his revenge
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Imo jungle buffs are junglers unless otherwise said, or he's dead.
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I think you're all missing the biggest part of the Ashe rework.Did you see that Q-Runaan's interaction? Shit was cash (rip cash ashe). Does no-one remember how awful Sivir was before the slow motion W bounces?
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Old Sivir was just straight up worse in every way except giving her team AS they didn't really make use of, so kind of a different situation.
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On May 20 2015 05:14 thejuju wrote:
Keep in mind that in this case the jungler isn't taking red from the start, but literally drive-by steals it. I think that's what needs to be emphasized more than effectiveness of red at 20 on adc vs jungler
it doesnt matter who starts it wtf
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Baa?21248 Posts
On May 20 2015 05:33 wei2coolman wrote:
Imo jungle buffs are junglers unless otherwise said, or he's dead.
This attitude is a really big symptom of the underlying reasons behind why China/Korea > Europe/NA.
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EPT
