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On March 13 2015 06:24 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 06:16 wei2coolman wrote:
Tempted to get bard just to try him out, what seems to be the main issue? is he lacking damage potential in ganks? or what? low damage output combined with unreliable stun do not make up for occasional free experence. in a level 2 gank: bard has, skillshot based cc with moderate damage + 1-3 enhanced auto attacks Annie has, 2 damage spells combining for double damage of Bard (one is -5 at rank 1 the other is +5) as well as a point and click stun if you prep ( I don't know why you would gank w/o stun ready) Blitz has 2 damage spells both with attached cc, one is unreliable but can be hit confirmed with the other. Thresh, 2 damage spells, with attacked cc, similar to blitz you can hit confirm Q if you are willing to expend flash, AND enhanced auto attack nuke to boot. you could probly even argue Janna here.
That's what i figured, his CC didn't seem good enough compared to a lot of current supports, and his damage seemed pretty mediocre, of which some roaming XP didn't seem to make up for it, especially since good supports can often roam without missing out on a lot of XP simply by coordinating with their ADC to wave manage correctly.
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On March 13 2015 06:22 Sonnington wrote:
I just played against a Bard. That magical journey ability is so annoying. I'm not sure how the mechanic works. Do I just have to just be standing in the hitbox when the portal is made? Or do I have to click on the ground in front of the wall to teleport? I def went on some magical journeys I wasn't planning on.
Think a multi-use, enemy-available Thresh lantern. Click on the entrance of the corridor when you're close to it.
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I don't see how he will fare a lot better at high elo, being a good player can not cover up the limitations of his kit. The bottom line is, he has inferior tools to popular supports for helping his adc win trades at low levels, now the riot has said that is because he is a good roamer, but the bottom line is most popular supports are also better at ganking.
in this diamond+ zone where people will know how to use his utility opposing teams will also know how to abuse an adc who is either a) left alone in lane or b) in lane next to some dude with a weak heal and poor peel options.
I actually would argue he is even worse in high elo games because high elo players (in my experence) have more of a grasp of when they can't be out traded or dueled, and thus have more killer instinct
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On March 13 2015 06:19 Jek wrote:
tbh I think Bard's allies just need to learn when and how to utilize his portal, sort of like Thresh on his release; just less overtuned.
Again. Thresh was considered hilariously kit OP regardless of his over tuning at release.
Bard I am not so sure about. But it could definitely work
There are some interesting things. For instance, because his heal shrine lasts forever you can stack heals in lane for either really good escapes, impossible tower dives, or simply smart timing plays. At rank 5 the burst healing is 690+1.35 AP which is pretty massive. Even at rank 1, 210+1.35 AP is pretty potent.This means that you can set up a little "get our of jail free" shrine behind your laner before you go roaming. The speed shrine effect is also a strong defensive ability regardless of the power of the heal so you can drop one in a lane you gank for as a nice potentially lasting safety net
His Q actually seems pretty powerful as a general lane ability. Since it goes through creeps enemies aren't safe from the stun unless they dump the normal safety of their creep wave. So champions like Ezreal who have strong all-in potential but weak laning because they can't fight in creeps well might be advantaged if enemies avoid the creep wave and spread out in order to avoid the Q stun. Champions like graves, who fight well in the creep wave, can easily follow up on any stun. Most importantly the natural disposition of enemy bot lanes against bard should be to split up. You can't effectively body block against bard which means bard lanes should have an advantage in singling targets out.
Additionally the CD and duration of the stun seem quite powerful. 1.8 second stun on a 7 second CD means a 4.2 second CD at max CDR and the low cost at all points mean you can effectively "fish" for stun harass. Things which the other AoE stun supports can't effectively do (nami 14-10 second CD on Q, Annie needs charges and more mana per individual cast, Thresh 20-12 CD plus doesn't go through creeps). Edit: Essentially, no one has a more spammable stun in bot lane
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I think you guys give high elo soloq far too much credit.
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On March 13 2015 05:27 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2015 05:23 Mensol wrote:On March 13 2015 05:07 739 wrote:
Bard is nothing special to be honest, he's fun but I won't play him anymore imo. People were also calling Kalista weak when she released. 1.5-2 weeks and we will see the true strengths of Bard. source? http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/471599-patch-420-blaze-it-０oーーy?page=9first 3 posts about Kalista in her the GD of her release refer to her as Broken. (first 2 posts being on page 1 and page 7) The ONLY time Kalista was considered bad by TL was when her passive was bugged and attack speed items caused you to get stuck in place.
im not talking about TL.
If you watch streams you'd know that almost all pros had difficulties with Kalista in first 1.5-2 weeks.
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The jungle shakeup has made this patch pretty fun, although spider is more rip than previously. I suppose you should just go magus now?
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Bard could be strong with a team fighting comp. His ability to engage from unexpected angles combined with his ult and low cooldown 1.8 second stun could be pretty brutal. Not so sure about his heal, although the speed boost is pretty nice.
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Jungle cho is fun. Cinderhulk+Warmogs+full stacks=good luck getting through all that hp
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Tristana is not for me.
I assume Graves+Janna vs a Thresh who lets Janna walk up and zone you without acting (and who starts coin so get fucked with your sustain) is annoying for Trist in general though. And I usually play Graves who only has like 3 base AD more but I kept missing minions by less than 5 HP, either from less AD or from misjudging timing. Graves' windup is mh but his projectile speed is very good.
And then I'm useless in teamfights because my stutter-stepping and general mechanics are gutter-trash level and even my spells rely on me to actually auto to have an effect.
D:
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Graves/Janna(coin) should dumpster trist/thresh. Janna can shield whomever trist E's. Thresh has no ability to engage through the creep wave. Graves/Janna can just fight from level 1/2 and win hard. Coin means that Thresh/Trist's damage won't stick.
Your only hope for that lane is bad play from Janna/Graves so that you can all-in them. Otherwise they out push you and out fight you.
Edit: Basically it shouldn't matter much what thresh is doing so long as Janna is inside the creep wave. You might have a hope by putting E on an enemy melee minion and using Q auto attacks to pop it when Janna comes in so that thresh can E to clean the rest of the minions/slow janna and open up a hook opportunity. By my feeling is that without something that coordinated you're done
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Yeah, Trist nowadays just isn't the hypercarry like she used to be before her tune up. She's still strong late game but so much of her DPS is tied into the E-Q combo for AAing their tank/front line and having it explode on their whole team, compared to old Trist who'd just pop Q and use her 3-4 item timing to 100-0 everything she saw with her insane range and AS steroid on the Q.
Honestly I wish she didn't get the nerf to her passive on the range increase. I know why Riot did it (because she could E a turret and be at a similar range to a Baron'ed up Cannon minion if she had her old passive) but that loss of 18 range is really noticeable in team fights.
Personally, I feel the only hypercarries left in the game now (from the ADC role) are Jinx, Kog'Maw, and maybe Vayne. Everyone else has a 1 or 2 item timing for their power spike window, while the ones I named only get strong once they get 3 items (save for Jinx, as if she gets 2 large AD items like IE, BT, and LW, combined w/ Zerker Greaves, her minigun AS steroid is enough for the mid game).
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As much as the passive nerf hurt Trist, I think the base as nerf was worse. She lost I think about 1300 gold worth of stats right there, and the multiplicative scaling of her q isn't as nuts as it used to be with a lower base aa speed
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Well, how does she feel in this patch compared to last with the Q CDR mechanic?
Every time I've come across the new Trist she's just blown people up. =S
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I'm hoping the E CDR change helps, but Trist doesn't really have room in her build to itemize for CDR. At best she gets scaling cdr glyphs and has 5% from 24 points in the offense tree, for 20%. Or she builds ghostblade and accepts that her DPS is a lot lower when ghostblade passive is down and esp. vs tanks where the armor pen doesn't help as much.
At 0% CDR you can bring her Q to a 15 second cooldown which is still way too long.
At 20% CDR you can bring it down to 11 seconds.
Aside, I think a fun game mode would be if they made all the AP ratios give AD ratios, at the correct conversion ratios. So Malzahar's Q would scale off 1.2 AD instead of .8 AP or something. ADC Leblonk, Malzahar, Ahri meta. AP Garen, Riven.
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On March 13 2015 12:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'm hoping the E CDR change helps, but Trist doesn't really have room in her build to itemize for CDR. At best she gets scaling cdr glyphs and has 5% from 24 points in the offense tree, for 20%. Or she builds ghostblade and accepts that her DPS is a lot lower when ghostblade passive is down and esp. vs tanks where the armor pen doesn't help as much.
At 0% CDR you can bring her Q to a 15 second cooldown which is still way too long.
At 20% CDR you can bring it down to 11 seconds.
Aside, I think a fun game mode would be if they made all the AP ratios give AD ratios, at the correct conversion ratios. So Malzahar's Q would scale off 1.2 AD instead of .8 AP or something. ADC Leblonk, Malzahar, Ahri meta. AP Garen, Riven.
Those are not who I think would be the most broken, but maybe if certain champs are permaban like Kass and friends in URF mode...
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On March 13 2015 12:02 obesechicken13 wrote:
I'm hoping the E CDR change helps, but Trist doesn't really have room in her build to itemize for CDR. At best she gets scaling cdr glyphs and has 5% from 24 points in the offense tree, for 20%. Or she builds ghostblade and accepts that her DPS is a lot lower when ghostblade passive is down and esp. vs tanks where the armor pen doesn't help as much.
At 0% CDR you can bring her Q to a 15 second cooldown which is still way too long.
At 20% CDR you can bring it down to 11 seconds.
Aside, I think a fun game mode would be if they made all the AP ratios give AD ratios, at the correct conversion ratios. So Malzahar's Q would scale off 1.2 AD instead of .8 AP or something. ADC Leblonk, Malzahar, Ahri meta. AP Garen, Riven.
You're going to have you roughly double AP ratios, not 1.5 them.
Also, no you don't. You think Riven is a problem now, her having AP Ratios would be even more impactful because of better itemization.
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EPT
