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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On February 09 2015 08:21 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 06:22 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 06:06 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 02:57 iCanada wrote:On February 09 2015 02:13 wei2coolman wrote:
just realized i have dragon trainer lulu skin, now i sort of want to play her more often. How are her current botlane matchups? Dont play her bottom. You'll lose lane horribly. She is pretty awful bottom after the changes made when she was facerolling everyone top / mid. She is a solo laner now imo. You never lose Lulu lanes horribly, rofl. She's probably strongest support in early game in general + her 3v3 potential is decent enough to be justified. you do if you have a weak ad vs strong lane. ie. trist lulu gets shit on by cait nami. shes not a very flexible support. gotta pick it in the right situation unlike janna, thresh, etc. where you can pick it into nearly any situation. Who isn't getting shit on by Cait-Nami, rofl. And you gotta define what is "flexible support", because you're not going Janna blindly every game either, unless you're elowhoring. anyone that has kill potential or enough sustain to farm it out. trist/lulu has neither. combinations of thresh, annie, leona, corki, draven, etc. can work easily.
Lol, I want to see in what world Caitlyn/Nami will lose to Corki/Annie or Draven/Leona pre-6, if they're same skill level.
And even then, Nami just disengages same moment Leona casts solar flare or Annie goes with bear, if you don't lose vision completely.
And 3v3 with Nami is stronger as well.
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On February 09 2015 09:37 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 09:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 08:21 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 06:22 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 06:06 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 02:57 iCanada wrote:On February 09 2015 02:13 wei2coolman wrote:
just realized i have dragon trainer lulu skin, now i sort of want to play her more often. How are her current botlane matchups? Dont play her bottom. You'll lose lane horribly. She is pretty awful bottom after the changes made when she was facerolling everyone top / mid. She is a solo laner now imo. You never lose Lulu lanes horribly, rofl. She's probably strongest support in early game in general + her 3v3 potential is decent enough to be justified. you do if you have a weak ad vs strong lane. ie. trist lulu gets shit on by cait nami. shes not a very flexible support. gotta pick it in the right situation unlike janna, thresh, etc. where you can pick it into nearly any situation. Who isn't getting shit on by Cait-Nami, rofl. And you gotta define what is "flexible support", because you're not going Janna blindly every game either, unless you're elowhoring. anyone that has kill potential or enough sustain to farm it out. trist/lulu has neither. combinations of thresh, annie, leona, corki, draven, etc. can work easily. Lol, I want to see in what world Caitlyn/Nami will lose to Corki/Annie or Draven/Leona pre-6, if they're same skill level. And even then, Nami just disengages same moment Leona casts solar flare or Annie goes with bear, if you don't lose vision completely. And 3v3 with Nami is stronger as well. theoretically a caitlyn nami lane should never lose to any combination if played perfectly.
you're basing this off what, exactly?
do you think fucking doublelift+aphroomoo or whatever good adc/bot lane combo would accept that statement?
how can you say theoretically what the best bot lane is if you're not even close to the best bot lane players? unless you have some strong sort of proof or at least concensus from top players this statement is complete bullshit
especially when skillshots make theoretical perfect play pretty much impossible
theres probably 2 champions that arent even adc+support that has the advantage vs cait nami specifically if played really well
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range doesn't guarantee auto win
you have wind up time and shit also other ads have stronger gap closers, having range doesnt guarantee you win lane theoretically
any time you go for a cs your range advantage can disappear
im not saying range isn't useful but 50 range isn't going to guarantee you'er going to win lane it just gives you a lot of advantages but then you have really low auto dps and all your skill damage is avoidable
you can juke nami bubble? or sidestepped? It's very avoidable in terms of skillshots though probably harder than morg Q because its targetted
you could at least do the calculations on nami W so we can figure out if she really outtrades all other supports
im suspecting she loses to trades vs sona by quite a bit but she has the advantage of being able to bubble and slow
obviously cait+nami E is quite strong but again it can be juked or just fought since they rely more on CC and poke than burst damage
I don't think I've seen any pro players say "X+Y is the best bot lane combination" but you guys are so confident in saying what the best combo is with a fraction of the games experience and a modicum of the skill
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It depends if you consider getting a 20 cs lead or so winning lane.Cait/nami should be able to do that vs pretty much any 2v2 but realistically getting 400 gold lead doesn't mean you won.They get outscaled by a lot of combos.Also the way they win is very risky.
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Well your examples are lanes that would get destroyed by good cait/nami.Draven and corki are very weak vs caitlyn.All the champions you mentioned provide a lot more jungle pressure and aren't that strong in lane by themselves.Only annie can do well if she doesn't feed too much pre 6.
Don't get me wrong lulu is awful if you have the weaker ad you are right on that one.
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On February 09 2015 09:48 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 09:43 Slayer91 wrote:On February 09 2015 09:37 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 09:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 08:21 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 06:22 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 06:06 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 02:57 iCanada wrote:On February 09 2015 02:13 wei2coolman wrote:
just realized i have dragon trainer lulu skin, now i sort of want to play her more often. How are her current botlane matchups? Dont play her bottom. You'll lose lane horribly. She is pretty awful bottom after the changes made when she was facerolling everyone top / mid. She is a solo laner now imo. You never lose Lulu lanes horribly, rofl. She's probably strongest support in early game in general + her 3v3 potential is decent enough to be justified. you do if you have a weak ad vs strong lane. ie. trist lulu gets shit on by cait nami. shes not a very flexible support. gotta pick it in the right situation unlike janna, thresh, etc. where you can pick it into nearly any situation. Who isn't getting shit on by Cait-Nami, rofl. And you gotta define what is "flexible support", because you're not going Janna blindly every game either, unless you're elowhoring. anyone that has kill potential or enough sustain to farm it out. trist/lulu has neither. combinations of thresh, annie, leona, corki, draven, etc. can work easily. Lol, I want to see in what world Caitlyn/Nami will lose to Corki/Annie or Draven/Leona pre-6, if they're same skill level. And even then, Nami just disengages same moment Leona casts solar flare or Annie goes with bear, if you don't lose vision completely. And 3v3 with Nami is stronger as well. theoretically a caitlyn nami lane should never lose to any combination if played perfectly. you're basing this off what, exactly? do you think fucking doublelift+aphroomoo or whatever good adc/bot lane combo would accept that statement? how can you say theoretically what the best bot lane is if you're not even close to the best bot lane players? unless you have some strong sort of proof this statement is complete bullshit especially when skillshots make theoretical perfect play pretty much impossible cause range? duh? cait has highest aa range in game so you can assume she will be out of range of any aa's while being able to zone the other adc perfectly. nami also can prevent any forceful engage with perfect bubble (even if the enemy is perfect at avoiding it, nami can place it perfectly to at least prevent engage). her trading is also top tier out of supports so enemy has no chance of just tanking hits and trading. sorry I can't math it out and write up a scientific report for you since that doesn't seem to be possible. perhaps I should change my wording from 'theoretical' to something else since you seem to be so up in arms about it. edit: having a hard time thinking of a different way to word it. I obviously didn't mean it 'theoretically' as in "I HAVE 100% PROOF WITH PERFECT AI CAIT NAMI CANNOT LOSE", I meant it as "taking into account the range and abilities of said champions, I will assume for the purpose of this discussion that cait and nami should be able to go at least even or win all bottomlane 2v2 matchups assuming equal skill". My argument was that lanes like trist lulu have a minimal chance of getting out of lane alright vs an oppressive lane like cait nami while other possible lanes like corki thresh for example at least have a higher chance of putting up a fight.
But "theoretically" a varus with "perfect" Q's has more range than caitlyn.
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On February 09 2015 10:24 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2015 10:18 TheHumanSensation wrote:On February 09 2015 09:48 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 09:43 Slayer91 wrote:On February 09 2015 09:37 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 09:04 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 08:21 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 07:15 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On February 09 2015 06:22 krndandaman wrote:On February 09 2015 06:06 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
[quote]
You never lose Lulu lanes horribly, rofl.
She's probably strongest support in early game in general + her 3v3 potential is decent enough to be justified.
you do if you have a weak ad vs strong lane. ie. trist lulu gets shit on by cait nami. shes not a very flexible support. gotta pick it in the right situation unlike janna, thresh, etc. where you can pick it into nearly any situation. Who isn't getting shit on by Cait-Nami, rofl. And you gotta define what is "flexible support", because you're not going Janna blindly every game either, unless you're elowhoring. anyone that has kill potential or enough sustain to farm it out. trist/lulu has neither. combinations of thresh, annie, leona, corki, draven, etc. can work easily. Lol, I want to see in what world Caitlyn/Nami will lose to Corki/Annie or Draven/Leona pre-6, if they're same skill level. And even then, Nami just disengages same moment Leona casts solar flare or Annie goes with bear, if you don't lose vision completely. And 3v3 with Nami is stronger as well. theoretically a caitlyn nami lane should never lose to any combination if played perfectly. you're basing this off what, exactly? do you think fucking doublelift+aphroomoo or whatever good adc/bot lane combo would accept that statement? how can you say theoretically what the best bot lane is if you're not even close to the best bot lane players? unless you have some strong sort of proof this statement is complete bullshit especially when skillshots make theoretical perfect play pretty much impossible cause range? duh? cait has highest aa range in game so you can assume she will be out of range of any aa's while being able to zone the other adc perfectly. nami also can prevent any forceful engage with perfect bubble (even if the enemy is perfect at avoiding it, nami can place it perfectly to at least prevent engage). her trading is also top tier out of supports so enemy has no chance of just tanking hits and trading. sorry I can't math it out and write up a scientific report for you since that doesn't seem to be possible. perhaps I should change my wording from 'theoretical' to something else since you seem to be so up in arms about it. edit: having a hard time thinking of a different way to word it. I obviously didn't mean it 'theoretically' as in "I HAVE 100% PROOF WITH PERFECT AI CAIT NAMI CANNOT LOSE", I meant it as "taking into account the range and abilities of said champions, I will assume for the purpose of this discussion that cait and nami should be able to go at least even or win all bottomlane 2v2 matchups assuming equal skill". My argument was that lanes like trist lulu have a minimal chance of getting out of lane alright vs an oppressive lane like cait nami while other possible lanes like corki thresh for example at least have a higher chance of putting up a fight. But "theoretically" a varus with "perfect" Q's has more range than caitlyn. pls, 'theoretically' caitlyn will be able to dodge all varus q's and he will run out of mana. theoretically this theoretical argument is dumb as bricks and I feel stupider for partaking in it
You started it.
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I don't understand why people are so bad at discussing "the theoretical lane". Its a lane of equal global pressure with equal skill on both sides. Its not hard to freaking understand.
Its like the old Jax vs. Renekton (before they both got nerfed). Theoretical Renekton was more powerful at all times of the game compared to theoretical Jax until the 40, 50 minute mark because he was always a full item+ahead.
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4 am and server demand is apparently too high to allow solo custom games for lasthitting
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I can't wait for the next game where I feed really bad so I have an excuse to become a memelord and say Big Sorry!
Also, I think Cait Nami is pretty obnoxious, I have never fed harder than the time I played Trist Alistar vs Cait Nami. I think I stopped playing Tristana for two weeks after.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
http://www.dailydot.com/esports/mym-kori-threatened-unpaid-wages/
LOL HOLY SHIT. I always knew that Martin Krause and whole MYM was thrash tier organisation but this is too much.
Edit : Also Riot, hahahahahah
Sona
Base HP increased to 497.6 from 482.36
HP Per Level decreased to 70 from 77
Base attack damage increased to 52.04 from 50.04
Movement Speed increased to 330 from 325
Base mana regen reduced to 1.6184 from 1.8
Mana regen per second per level increased .13 from .08
with the DJ Sona incoming :D God.
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All the random Sona nerfs all make sense now. They nerf her so that they can then buff her again.
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I wouldn't really call that much of a buff. More health at level 1 but ~20 less health at level 6 and 110 less health at level 18. I guess slightly more AD and movement speed are nice? Less mana regen early and more later. It's going to put her at 1687 health at level 18, which puts her at 3rd lowest health in the game from 11th. The only squishier champions would be Gnar and Anivia, and they stuff in their kits that help deal with that.
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Sona was always made of paper, and they nerfed her MS to make it easier to retaliate if she goes to harass you then walks away (esp. if she wants to use E to run, 'cept she won't do it in lane because costs).
When I played her I felt really weak poke-wise, especially before level 6, while this used to be her forte. Power chord deals less damage, even the Q one, and she has it up less often because of increased cooldowns across the board. Having her base AD nerfed made it a bit worse. She's strong in dragged teamfights and Q actually provides a lot of damage if you tag enough people (and they use the buff), but having its power tied to Crescendo's rank reduces it pre-6.
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EPT
