|
|
On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc.
You're referencing beta for Flash...
Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler.
Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc.
Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played.
Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E.
|
On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E.
I've been playing for so long my memory is fuzzy =.=
|
On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E.
janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes
|
On December 19 2014 11:33 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E. janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes
I think the point was that given an age where mobility was less prevalent, her good(by today's standards) peel was godly back then.
|
On December 19 2014 11:35 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:33 Frolossus wrote:On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E. janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes I think the point was that given an age where mobility was less prevalent, her good(by today's standards) peel was godly back then.
When Udyr was your initiator Janna was basically untouchable.
|
On December 19 2014 16:42 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 11:35 Gahlo wrote:On December 19 2014 11:33 Frolossus wrote:On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E. janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes I think the point was that given an age where mobility was less prevalent, her good(by today's standards) peel was godly back then. When Udyr was your initiator Janna was basically untouchable.
Please, GP was the only initiator you needed. Shit was so cash. Press R. RNG entire enemy team to hell, Press Q to RNG stragglers to death.
Also, anyone know why Pobelter playing on KR severs? I'm going to guess he's in korea due to the insanely low ping he's got right now.
|
In what situations warmog is useful to be bought? I just cant figure it out, it always seems to me that another item will do better even on champs like volibear that benefits a lot from warmog in theory
|
On December 19 2014 17:15 M2 wrote:
In what situations warmog is useful to be bought? I just cant figure it out, it always seems to me that another item will do better even on champs like volibear that benefits a lot from warmog in theory
I don't know about current iteration of it, but before the nerfs I really liked it as a single defensive item on ADC where %hp damage was not an issue on the enemy team. Usually the extra 1k hp was enough to survive any burst given.
|
Late s4 I built it on Nautilus whenever the game went late. Golem/mercs/Locket/FH/Warmogs/Thornmail (sometimes take Randuin's instead of Thornmail or Warmogs if you're a peeler more than a wall, or Banshee's+Randuin's if against double AP).
10.8s cd 650 HP shields make you hold pretty well in teamfights when you can't be focused down at the start (and you're not the last survivor).
|
On December 19 2014 16:51 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 16:42 Nos- wrote:On December 19 2014 11:35 Gahlo wrote:On December 19 2014 11:33 Frolossus wrote:On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E. janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes I think the point was that given an age where mobility was less prevalent, her good(by today's standards) peel was godly back then. When Udyr was your initiator Janna was basically untouchable. Please, GP was the only initiator you needed. Shit was so cash. Press R. RNG entire enemy team to hell, Press Q to RNG stragglers to death. Also, anyone know why Pobelter playing on KR severs? I'm going to guess he's in korea due to the insanely low ping he's got right now.
Bootcamping in Korea before LCS starts.
|
On December 19 2014 17:15 M2 wrote:
In what situations warmog is useful to be bought? I just cant figure it out, it always seems to me that another item will do better even on champs like volibear that benefits a lot from warmog in theory
The HP 5 on warmogs makes it a lot more powerful than people give it credit for. Especially for roaming and tanking waves. I think it's the best universal tank item that you can buy unless you need the BV shield, randuins slow, or aren't against a one damage team. For a champion who is expected to tank I feel like it's a great first buy.
At 2000 HP it grants 60 HP5 outside of combat. So if you run down from top to mid then you will get nearly 240 HP during the journey which is a large amount.
|
On December 19 2014 19:09 Lost My Will To Live wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 16:51 wei2coolman wrote:On December 19 2014 16:42 Nos- wrote:On December 19 2014 11:35 Gahlo wrote:On December 19 2014 11:33 Frolossus wrote:On December 19 2014 08:21 Alaric wrote:On December 19 2014 07:47 Amui wrote:On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better. I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc. You're referencing beta for Flash... Late s1/s2 was a lot about AoE wombo combos and double AP comps, with junglers generally being either tanky initiators or bruisers. Initiation was actually way "harder" than now because dashes and mobility in general were a lot less prevalent, which is also part of why Janna was such a good peeler. Champions like Malphite could actually be played, you had offensive Flash-Crescendos, Kennen was actually able to initiate without someone tossing a slow in his general direction and the rest just dashing right out of range, etc. Morgana was considered a solid laner but also a powerful teamfighter with good burst and initiation. Galio was actually played. Now you have shit like cancer Ziggs, or currently Xerath, to prevent people from initiating, you actually start fights by bursting down a single person using the mobility from Zed/Ahri/LB, and you try to get picks using Lee Sin/Elise/Thresh. It's a lot less brutal, and relies on much shorter cooldowns, than Malphite or Maokai deciding it's time to go in, or Veigar committing to a flash E. janna is still a very good peeler because she can interrupt most of those dashes I think the point was that given an age where mobility was less prevalent, her good(by today's standards) peel was godly back then. When Udyr was your initiator Janna was basically untouchable. Please, GP was the only initiator you needed. Shit was so cash. Press R. RNG entire enemy team to hell, Press Q to RNG stragglers to death. Also, anyone know why Pobelter playing on KR severs? I'm going to guess he's in korea due to the insanely low ping he's got right now. Bootcamping in Korea before LCS starts.
Not to mention getting a new Top lane and support 
|
On December 17 2014 20:13 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 15:43 wei2coolman wrote:On December 17 2014 15:32 Slusher wrote:
you'd be surprised how many people never bought it before vs. heal characters even though it was more stats/gold than athene's (like since athenes was slightly nerfed mid s4) I never understood why morellos+tears never really caught on in s4. Only rarely seen in some Ori games. Part of it was the community doesn't value healing reduction.
Morellos on pre-nerf soraka was freelo all the way. Spam q for days.
|
On December 17 2014 20:13 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 15:43 wei2coolman wrote:On December 17 2014 15:32 Slusher wrote:
you'd be surprised how many people never bought it before vs. heal characters even though it was more stats/gold than athene's (like since athenes was slightly nerfed mid s4) I never understood why morellos+tears never really caught on in s4. Only rarely seen in some Ori games. Part of it was the community doesn't value healing reduction.
I'd overvalue it and ignite people top lane 1v1 when they popped their last healing potion if i already had a large health lead.
extra 25 damage(ignite is 5 seconds, potions are 10 per second for 15 seconds) by halving their healing. hue.
|
Warning: bad theorycrafting ahead.
I wonder if Face of the Mountain will be better than Warmog's in S5 on a tank. FotM gives 500 health and a shield for 10% of your max health. So if you can get 3000+ HP the health component is about the same as a Warmog in a teamfight. FotM also gives 100% regen which transalate to about an extra 16 HP per 5 seconds, 10% CDR, and an execute passive that further regenerates your health when you are around an ally. Additionally, it is 200g cheaper even if you don't count the gold generating passive.
|
|
|
On December 19 2014 22:39 Sufficiency wrote:
Warning: bad theorycrafting ahead.
I wonder if Face of the Mountain will be better than Warmog's in S5 on a tank. FotM gives 500 health and a shield for 10% of your max health. So if you can get 3000+ HP the health component is about the same as a Warmog in a teamfight. FotM also gives 100% regen which transalate to about an extra 16 HP per 5 seconds, 10% CDR, and an execute passive that further regenerates your health when you are around an ally. Additionally, it is 200g cheaper even if you don't count the gold generating passive.
Well warmog is an awful item so not a big accomplishment.Both are below average as far as tank items go.
|
Warmogs pair really well with FH. Just sayin.
|
|
|
On December 19 2014 23:35 Gahlo wrote:
Warmogs pair really well with FH. Just sayin.
Yeah if they have no AP I guess. I think BV or SV pairs even better with FH because you're then tanky vs multiple sources of damage.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
