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On December 18 2014 18:26 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 17:03 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Seriously, as Olaf I find myself hitting full build too fast. Glory, Bork, Warrior enchant, Visage, Frozen Heart, Boots as req. You clear the jungle like instantly and have no sticking problems unless it's like Blue Build Ezreal. How do you not blow up with that build? My guess is that you go jungle item -> Glory -> BotRK -> Warrior, then resistance item depending on needs, but before that even building FH+Warmogs Olaf just exploded, and you're building less survivability than that (less HP/regen on Glory), and later.
I've been doing Jungle item, Brutalizer, Glory, Bork, finish Warrior whenever I have the gold. I haven't really felt the need for early tankiness as long as I've used my ult passive well. Lategame, yeah, it's a bit lacking and you die pretty fast if focused. I would drop the Glory for a Randuins/Warmog/anything really if I knew the support was building it.
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I kinda feel like it doesn't matter which tank I play or if I have 6 items full tank build, I still get instagibbed -_-
Sure is hard being tank these days.
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On December 18 2014 20:57 Osmoses wrote:
I kinda feel like it doesn't matter which tank I play or if I have 6 items full tank build, I still get instagibbed -_-
Sure is hard being tank these days.
Why is this? whats so different about tanks now in comparison with season 4?
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Hell I felt like I instadied in s4 too. Doesn't matter how much armor I get because everyone gets last whisper and ghostblade. Doesn't matter how much health I got because Botrk is staple on most adcs/fighters/tanks.
And fuck Yasuo and his armor pen ult.
I have to get 2 mr items just to not instantly die against most of the midlane nukers. Anything less and you're not a tank at all.
It seems to me the only champs that can tank at all are those with inherent resistances/health scaling like Sion, Alistar and Maokai. Only other ones I've had some success with are Irelia and GP because of kit heals and cc reduction.
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You started instadying as a tank in s4 about 5-6 months ago when the BT nerfs meant IE and champions like Tristana (and RNG-double crit Lucian) came back into prominence. Before that, marksmen would need ~3 items to really start putting the hurt on you (because at the 2 items mark you usually had a Randuin's or Sunfire, sometimes even Tabi) and by the time they added IE (often as last item because BV would be necessary to survive to the likes of LB and Syndra) you had at least 2 items for physical EHP.
That's why Alistar/Maokai/Gragas became popular that pach: anyone unable to function while building a tanky item first (as opposed to offensive item like Triforce or Tiamat) would be too vulnerable to 1-2 crits to the face erasing them from a fight (IE crit%+passive increases your aa-only dps by over 30% compared to the same amount of AD). Alistar had his ult to allow him to get triforce first, Maokai combined his ult and passive with RoA, and Gragas had excellent sustain combined with W's passive damage reduction.
After a few more adjustements, and nerfs to the hard to reach marksmen (mainly Tristana, since Lucian still built Triforce at that time, same with Kog) and popular top laners (Gragas outright OP, Alistar "bugfixed" (RIP Pantheon)), stuff like Irelia started coming back too because she's good in lane against Maokai, doesn't hold that badly in a 1v2 and is powerful enough with triforce to fight an IE-Zeal marksman.
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On December 18 2014 20:57 Osmoses wrote:
I kinda feel like it doesn't matter which tank I play or if I have 6 items full tank build, I still get instagibbed -_-
Sure is hard being tank these days.
Really? I don't believe that.
A very armor heavy build with Randuin Sunfire FH Thornmail and Warmog is indestructible against physical threats. You can substitute Warmog for an MR item.....
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Anyone who remembers season 2 knows tanks have fallen far indeed.
Warmogs giving almost 1400hp when fully stacked, force of nature etc
Changed armor/magic pen calculations, true damage on everyone and their mother etc nerfed sustain etc came into effect the last two seasons.
The days of atmogs/foN/IE/Triforce/GP never forget.
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Anyone who remembers season 2 knows tanks have fallen far indeed.
Warmogs giving almost 1400hp when fully stacked, force of nature etc
Changed armor/magic pen calculations, true damage on everyone and their mother etc nerfed sustain etc came into effect the last two seasons.
The days of atmogs/foN/IE/Triforce/GP never forget.
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Bearded Elder29904 Posts
Atmog build was awesome meta.
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it's a mixed bag, if you got IE first back then you could buy a green pot and shred people on one item
imo both sides of the coin are nerfed since then
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also dont forget everyone has %max hp dmg nowadays and riot buffed botrk to 8% current hp, add things like dragon making late game adc's even better and core tank items being nerfed to shit u have a reason theres almost no tank played anymore
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On December 18 2014 21:57 Osmoses wrote:
Hell I felt like I instadied in s4 too. Doesn't matter how much armor I get because everyone gets last whisper and ghostblade. Doesn't matter how much health I got because Botrk is staple on most adcs/fighters/tanks.
And fuck Yasuo and his armor pen ult.
I have to get 2 mr items just to not instantly die against most of the midlane nukers. Anything less and you're not a tank at all.
It seems to me the only champs that can tank at all are those with inherent resistances/health scaling like Sion, Alistar and Maokai. Only other ones I've had some success with are Irelia and GP because of kit heals and cc reduction.
I had fond memorys of playing full tank Shyvana, 300+ armor and still getting instakilled by the enemy team.
you just still take a retarded amount of damage even with stupid high resists and hp
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So I missed playing AP trynd and decided to try it out again and it didn't go toooooo badly in the two games I played. Sure I went 0-11 one game and got reported a bunch but that was a bad matchup. He still is pretty much almost unstoppable when trying to split push since csing with spin helps a lot with his sustain but way worse in team fighting than I remember :<.
Also, does anyone remember what he builds? I only for sure remember nashors and lich
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On December 19 2014 02:49 wussleeQ wrote:
So I missed playing AP trynd and decided to try it out again and it didn't go toooooo badly in the two games I played. Sure I went 0-11 one game and got reported a bunch but that was a bad matchup. He still is pretty much almost unstoppable when trying to split push since csing with spin helps a lot with his sustain but way worse in team fighting than I remember :<.
Also, does anyone remember what he builds? I only for sure remember nashors and lich
AP tryndamere is pretty bad to be honest. It works okay in certain matchups that AD tryndamere is bad at such as Jayce and Malphite. That said, it's one of the most fun ways to play a champ ever.
Rohammers, a really good tryndamere main in masters/challenger goes these items on AP tryndamere:
Rohammers Na.op.gg
Starts Boots 5 pots (stays in base for 5th pot)
Rushs CDR boots and Nashors Tooth -> Guinsoo's Rageblade -> Lich Bane -> Deathcap/Zhonya
Rushing CDR boots and Nashors (in addition to 5% cdr) results in a quick 40% cdr for maximum healing and spinning around.
For level maxing I would max Q and then E (only 1 pt in R).
At rank 5 E, you have a spin at 5.4 s cd, it's way too fun.
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On the subject of tanking, yeah there's not really any tanks when they get blown easily these days except Mundo and Maokai I guess.
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funfires was the best meta
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Give me back AD Sona doing 80% of any champions health at level 1.
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Pretty sure S1~S2, ADC's were infinitely more scary in late game in comparison to now. Pretty much any ADC could blow up tanks with 3-4 hits.
Also, jangle twitch is pretty good, just get a first clear, and then permagank with chilling smite.
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They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better.
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On December 19 2014 07:12 zer0das wrote:
They weren't really, it was just easier to stall out games to that point. Defensive options were so much better.
I think it's a lot more that there just weren't that many options to be offensive compared to nowadays. Initiation was weaker for the most part, meta in general was a lot less bursty, flash got you about 50% further on 60% the CD, etc.
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I remember the game being a lot more bursty...
I feel like damages have been toned down across the board, people die wayyyy slower, ADC's as well.
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EPT
