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[Patch 4.21] Rek'Sai General Discussion - Page 149

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Starting Page 94 spamming will in GD will be warned, please don't post for the sake of post count. Keep it civil.

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Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 14 2015 00:55 GMT
#2961
I think the concern is that DFG sort of does % max health damage, which is a bit problematic against tanks.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
January 14 2015 00:57 GMT
#2962
I didn't like that it gave anything besides the buff and some ap, I had felt it should function similar to the old SotD. I like this version a lot better than the version that had an ap ratio on the active that was some really stupid shit when combined with old lich you would do >50% of your combo from items.
Carrilord has arrived.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 14 2015 00:58 GMT
#2963
On January 14 2015 09:57 Slusher wrote:
I didn't like that it gave anything besides the buff and some ap, I had felt it should function similar to the old SotD. I like this version a lot better than the version that had an ap ratio on the active that was some really stupid shit when combined with old lich you would do >50% of your combo from items.


I actually think it might be better to just remove the % max health damage and enhance the damage amp a bit more.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:02:14
January 14 2015 00:59 GMT
#2964
you act like it isn't already dead in the water.

this is riot even if in internal tests dfg heros have a 0% winrate, once they decided to remove it, they are going to remove it. I mean the original version of the Cass rework went live and that was an absolute mess compared to what had been on live.
Carrilord has arrived.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 14 2015 01:03 GMT
#2965
Ahri so fucked if she doesn't get major compensation for lack of dfg.

Also the dfg problem could be solved by reintroducing FoN.
liftlift > tsm
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
January 14 2015 01:09 GMT
#2966
On January 14 2015 10:03 wei2coolman wrote:
Ahri so fucked if she doesn't get major compensation for lack of dfg.

Also the dfg problem could be solved by reintroducing FoN.

reintroducing fon makes bruisers too good again
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 14 2015 01:10 GMT
#2967
There is absolutely no way FoN will be back, seeing that its passive is now on Warmog's.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:15:27
January 14 2015 01:12 GMT
#2968
at this rate, in 2 seasons they remove all items and instead your champ has a "tier" and each 2k gold you can upgrade a tier, which upgrades your HP and damage.



and depending on ypur role, which is of course hardcoded for every champion, you get special things every few tiers like the support actives or crit scaling for adcs.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
January 14 2015 01:14 GMT
#2969
On January 14 2015 10:12 LaNague wrote:
at this rate, in 2 seasons they remove all items and instead your champ has a "tier" and each 2k gold you can upgrade a tier, which upgrades your HP and damage.

The hyperbole is strong as always.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
January 14 2015 01:17 GMT
#2970
On January 14 2015 10:14 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2015 10:12 LaNague wrote:
at this rate, in 2 seasons they remove all items and instead your champ has a "tier" and each 2k gold you can upgrade a tier, which upgrades your HP and damage.

The hyperbole is strong as always.




you laugh now, but i bet your riot designers have something like that allready in their drawer and once the player growth inevitably stops, they might take it out.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:21:36
January 14 2015 01:20 GMT
#2971
On January 14 2015 10:17 LaNague wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2015 10:14 onlywonderboy wrote:
On January 14 2015 10:12 LaNague wrote:
at this rate, in 2 seasons they remove all items and instead your champ has a "tier" and each 2k gold you can upgrade a tier, which upgrades your HP and damage.

The hyperbole is strong as always.




you laugh now, but i bet your riot designers have something like that allready in their drawer and once the player growth inevitably stops, they might take it out.

You can glean that simply by them deciding to remove certain items? Impressive.

Also Scarizard already tweeted they plan on still having three build options from NLR
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Kinie
Profile Joined December 2011
United States3106 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:28:19
January 14 2015 01:26 GMT
#2972
DFG removal will affect (in my eyes) the following champions the most:

Syndra, Ahri, Leblanc, Katarina, Veigar. I don't see many mid Annie's buying it, and Fizz's tend to 100-0 people without it just fine.

I think this is just Riot trying to streamline the champs purchases. I do think it should stay in, it's a niche item but does help the above Mages/Assassins a ton when they try to 100-0 people in the early/mid game.

This does mean that it will probably be league of tanks and AD/AP scaling though, as now that DFG's removal means you can't have a Mage chunk a tank down as fast, you just pick a strong scaling tank for top or jungle, a decent scaling ADC that doesn't have a shit early game and play even semi-decently and you'll have a front line that won't die.

On January 14 2015 10:20 onlywonderboy wrote:
You can glean that simply by them deciding to remove certain items? Impressive.

Also Scarizard already tweeted they plan on still having three build options from NLR
https://twitter.com/RiotScarizard/status/555168829131587584


Maybe they condense Rylei's down into NLR + Giant's Belt + Amp. Tome?
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
January 14 2015 01:31 GMT
#2973
Its a shame that its the only item in the game that boosts base damage above penetration and is being taken out. only good damage item on vel koz outside of penetration is gone.
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
January 14 2015 01:32 GMT
#2974
On January 14 2015 10:26 Kinie wrote:
DFG removal will affect (in my eyes) the following champions the most:

Syndra, Ahri, Leblanc, Katarina, Veigar. I don't see many mid Annie's buying it, and Fizz's tend to 100-0 people without it just fine.

I think this is just Riot trying to streamline the champs purchases. I do think it should stay in, it's a niche item but does help the above Mages/Assassins a ton when they try to 100-0 people in the early/mid game.

This does mean that it will probably be league of tanks and AD/AP scaling though, as now that DFG's removal means you can't have a Mage chunk a tank down as fast, you just pick a strong scaling tank for top or jungle, a decent scaling ADC that doesn't have a shit early game and play even semi-decently and you'll have a front line that won't die.

Show nested quote +
On January 14 2015 10:20 onlywonderboy wrote:
You can glean that simply by them deciding to remove certain items? Impressive.

Also Scarizard already tweeted they plan on still having three build options from NLR
https://twitter.com/RiotScarizard/status/555168829131587584


Maybe they condense Rylei's down into NLR + Giant's Belt + Amp. Tome?


That'd be a neat trick since Rylai's is Giant's Belt+Amp Tome+Blasting Wand+Gold as is. Even removing the gold, that would be making it more expensive and a harder build up(most expensive piece moves from 1k to 1600).
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:34:03
January 14 2015 01:32 GMT
#2975
DFG Sejuani RIP.

I agree with the sentiments that the active damage was unnecessary. The spell amp would've sufficed. I'm always hesitant at the removal of items, there are a lot of stagnant builds that have no reason to change because there are no competing items. APs go mana/CDR item, Dcap/Zhonya, Void staff, Dcap/Zhonya. Outside of that it's those that need flat mana (Kass, Ryze, Anivia etc) and build RoA and perhaps Tear. Even items like Liandry's and Rylai's are rarely used, unless your champ synergises with the items particularly well (e.g. Brand). DFG gave an interesting alternative in some situations, as well as being core on a few champs here and there (Veigar is the quintessential DFG champ).

Oh well, hopefully something else comes up out of this that can shake things up. My personal favourite champ to get DFG on is Malzahar. It's so stupidly hilarious on him. 100-0 a Mundo in 4 seconds. Try it before it's too late!

On January 14 2015 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
Its a shame that its the only item in the game that boosts base damage above penetration and is being taken out. only good damage item on vel koz outside of penetration is gone.

Why are you getting close enough to use the DFG active as Vel? Suicidal
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
January 14 2015 01:34 GMT
#2976
On January 14 2015 09:45 lilwisper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2015 09:37 Slusher wrote:
Hot off the press, DFG to not be in the game in 5.2 such a major change

I hope they add an item that does something, idk, I just, ap build diversity is so bad, and heroes that needed/could rush DFG was one of the only major variants

maybe something like a silence stick (like orchid/dfg but no damage buff??)


I thought that the AP diversity outnumbered the AD? Or is it just that diversity in LoL is just plain shit period?

People complaining about AP diversity are going with the same complaint that ADC do. There isn't a lot of high level items to pick. There isn't much decision to make.

The fact that AP has the best itemization has nothing to do with it.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
January 14 2015 01:37 GMT
#2977
DFG removal reasoning:

Hey guys, Jag here from the Live Balance team. It's a new year, a new(ish) season, and we're back with the Patch 5.2 Forecast!

The biggest change we're making in 5.2 is that we're removing Deathfire Grasp from Summoner's Rift. There are two major reasons we felt we had to do this, so I'll run through both:

First, DFG tends to make burst patterns even more bursty. The item effectively adds another nuke spell on top of kits that are already designed to have strong up-front damage and aggravates the "whoa, I got one shot out of nowhere" frustration of playing against certain champions. A good example is LeBlanc; DFG adds reliability to her assassination patterns and ends up removing counterplay (she gets to rely on her Q, E, and DFG spells for damage, and can use dashes to reposition or escape instead of making more risky plays).

The second reason is strongly tied to the first; removing this item gives us room to buff champion kits that would otherwise be overpowered if they could use DFG. The most obvious example is Ahri; more 'magey' elements of the character, like her sustained damage or kiting, end up getting washed out because she has so much power to blow up charmed targets with a DFG burst. This ends up forcing us to balance Ahri around her assassin playstyle because there's always the "I can buy DFG" route to consider; removing the item means we can buff her in more interesting ways while still keeping some of her burst because she can't just pick up a DFG and double down on a single playstyle.

As far as champions that purchase DFG are concerned, some will get some love now that DFG is gone (I mentioned Ahri; expect Veigar to get attention either this patch or next); some are strong enough that losing DFG is a healthy nerf; some rely on alternate item builds sufficiently that they won't be affected too much. When 5.2 goes live, if we feel there is an itemization gap for mages, then we'll address that further.

One of the other character classes we're looking at in 5.2 in Assassins. Some assassins have top tier burst potential that is loaded onto high reliability spells (think Akali or Fizz here) and don't have enough real weaknesses to compensate. Others may simply be too strong along a variety of dimensions; Zed being one of the best 1v1 champions in the game and an extremely efficient tower diver helps make him a super split pusher. However, him having such strong tower killing statistics (e.g. AS, bonus AD from W passive) on top of that makes for an overwhelming combination.

Last point regarding jungle; we have seen the jungle receive a huge amount of changes since the start of the preseason, and Patch 5.1 was no exception with the addition of the Smite charging system. We want to keep a close eye on what happens when 5.1 hits live servers and we will continue to make changes to jungle as appropriate.


http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/GinIa17t-52-live-gameplay-patch-forecast
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:40:25
January 14 2015 01:37 GMT
#2978
Ahri doesn't even need DFG to function with her damage numbers, what. Remember when damage was moved to Charm because DFG+W+R was enough to kill people (with maybe ignite)? Her full kit is still perfectly able of 100-0ing people, and even competitively she doesn't build DFG first (but that's because she's a fake assassin).

Edit:
some rely on alternate item builds sufficiently that they won't be affected too much

See? That's Ahri. But they're still talking about being able to buff her because they don't have to fear the DFG.
When the last time they touched her it was already a buff (to make her basically manaless) because poor guys didn't get to see her pick/ban raise above 50% in more than 8 weeks. Geez.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
January 14 2015 01:38 GMT
#2979
On January 14 2015 10:32 JazzVortical wrote:
Why are you getting close enough to use the DFG active as Vel? Suicidal

its only 100 less range than your only disable.
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-14 01:40:19
January 14 2015 01:38 GMT
#2980
Inb4 third item from NLR is something essence reaver tier :>

Ahri wasn't totally dependant on dfg, if you can hit at least 50% of charms, you're fine to go even without it.

Oh, they finally realised that random numbers like Zed's W passive are stupid? Finally, replays soon, i guess.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
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