On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
What champs are you playing that's allowing you to do 6+ clears? WW need not apply.
6 camps yield ~850 gold, while 3 camps yield ~450 gold. There are reasons to fully clear or leave camps up to buy/gank earlier, but one thing that Riot sneakily changed in the 4.20 patch involves EXP penalties when the jungler is a higher level than the camp monsters, combined with monsters not passively leveling until after they've been killed once. My line of thinking is that it would be best to fully clear to minimize the amount of EXP wasted.
As for routes, most full clears I've seen start Krugs with the aim of using that buff and kiting to mitigate as much damage as possible, smiting either Red for the HP or Raptors just to minimize damage taken. Scip has demonstrated that he has a better grasp on achieving faster clear times and more experience playing junglers than me, so I'll leave the specific rune/mastery/timing details to him.
I know poachers is garbage but i have spent a little time watching SV/NB and it just makes me wonder if counter-jungling will be some huge thing in competitive (more than now). Even strong jungler champs routinely dip to 100 hp on first clear, one random nuke could swing the game hard before 6 minutes. We will see.
On December 13 2014 17:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
What champs are you playing that's allowing you to do 6+ clears? WW need not apply.
I've been doing first win games vs ai only for the last while, so it's a bit sketchy off the top of my head, but going off of my match history and vague recollection from champions owned list...
"no issues" = can get 6 iirc // "problems" = I don't think I got 6
Shyvana: Can get 6 but it's not super easy Nocturne: problems Sion: no issues Chogath: no issues Nunu: jungles infinitely Olaf: Scip's way kicks my ass but I did it Nasus: iirc I had some issues but it was pretty sustainable, would need to retest Shen: jungles infinitely Kayle: jungles infinitely until blue runs out GP: jungles infinitely until blue runs out
memory is more vague on these since they were >10 days ago Aatrox: jungles infinitely Alistar: problems Darius: problems Diana: super easy 6 Hecarim: problems Nautilus: no issues Trundle: no issues
I also did a lot of ranged jungle stuff at the start of the season, which basically doesn't lose health ever and jungle infinitely. This lets Gnar get 6 easy, but the only stand-out was Twitch imo.
EDIT: also should put it out there that I have been promoting sustain over speed (start rocks unless blue is needed) and am not good like scip
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
You can request specific junglers, not exactly sure what you mean by popular melee junglers. Lee and J4? Clearing 6 camps allows you to get a longsword on the first back, so it's a big-ish deal.
On December 13 2014 17:33 wei2coolman wrote: Shen can do it? Wat? O.o
Yeah, it's slow like it always was, but it's surprising how well it work sustain-wise if you're not used to it. The 2 second cd reduction on passive while shield is up makes AS runes pretty effective, but there's still no AoE aside from frog buff which is a problem.
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
You can request specific junglers, not exactly sure what you mean by popular melee junglers. Lee and J4? Clearing 6 camps allows you to get a longsword on the first back, so it's a big-ish deal.
Lee and J4 would be perfect actually. I wonder if it's possible with elise as well?
I have an inkling that it should be pretty easy with reksai given her aoe+pretty strong sustain.
What the fuck is this ? Where is this game going ?
tbh, it's not a bad idea considering there's no "high ground" advantage built into defending.
Or instead of random shit like homeguards and magic portals they could just make the underlying design better. Instead of slapping on more bandaids preseason is the perfect time to overhaul infrastructure.
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
You can request specific junglers, not exactly sure what you mean by popular melee junglers. Lee and J4? Clearing 6 camps allows you to get a longsword on the first back, so it's a big-ish deal.
Lee and J4 would be perfect actually. I wonder if it's possible with elise as well?
I have an inkling that it should be pretty easy with reksai given her aoe+pretty strong sustain.
Lee can always do a 6 camp clear if you start kurgs (smite) => red => raptors (smite) => wolves => (blue) => (gromp) (smite).
On December 13 2014 17:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
What champs are you playing that's allowing you to do 6+ clears? WW need not apply.
udyr, fiddle, nunu and probably trundle come to mind
On December 13 2014 17:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
What champs are you playing that's allowing you to do 6+ clears? WW need not apply.
udyr, fiddle, nunu and probably trundle come to mind
Nautilus does pretty well also, but does get a bit low before Red. No need to back though.
On December 12 2014 14:14 GolemMadness wrote: Pretty sure AD quints have just been straight up better on Eve ever since the nerf to her Q. Not really sure why people still use AP.
I've never seen the math on this, I'd be interested if anyone has a source to these calculations.
On December 12 2014 14:14 GolemMadness wrote: Pretty sure AD quints have just been straight up better on Eve ever since the nerf to her Q. Not really sure why people still use AP.
I've never seen the math on this, I'd be interested if anyone has a source to these calculations.
AP quints give 14.85 AP, and AD Quints give 6.75 AD.
AP for Q: + 5.1975 / 5.94 / 6.6825 AD for Q: + 3.375 / 3.7125 / 4.05
AP for E: +14.85 AD for E: +6.75
I dunno how to play eve, so I'm not sure if E or Q max and I don't want to make assumptions. AP pretty much consistently gives Q +2-3 damage, which less than half an auto attack with AD quints. Eve can attack about twice per Q at level 1, and AS goes up while Q CD does not improve (unless blue I guess).
E does +8 more damage with AP, but that's made up for in 2 autos, and the AS boost should give that to you pretty easily.
Over a 9 second period (the cooldown of E), AD quints outperform AP quints by about 16 damage, not factoring in armour or the 60% AS boost. They basically tie at about 3 seconds (two Qs, two autos, and one E) and AD slowly wins out after that. It's a rough estimate but AD's probably better.
On December 13 2014 16:38 wei2coolman wrote: The more I play the new jungle, the more I'm finding out that I know absolutely have no idea how to do a full 6 camp clear on first go (except with ww, cuz fuck ww). I also having issues figuring out camp timings, like my rhythm is all fucked up now with new jungle.
What I do is this cheap as fuck trick. Ward out opposite jungle with one of their buffs to figure out which buff they start. Start opposite side of that. So if they start blue, you start blue. Then you rush to their red and camp it. Requires asking someone else to trinket another buff, but I found that since camps do quite a bit of damage, you can usually fuck them over pretty hard doing that.
This was a thing last season too.
On December 13 2014 17:33 wei2coolman wrote: Shen can do it? Wat? O.o
Shen will always be able to clear any jungle Riot devises. He'll just be slow as balls doing it.
On December 13 2014 17:08 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:58 wei2coolman wrote:
On December 13 2014 16:48 GolemMadness wrote: On Jarvan I'm just doing 3 camps, backing, and getting rangers + 3 pots.
I can usually eek out 4 camps most of hte time, but I get dangerously low trying to do so. The rengar vid scip posted really impressed me, but I'm not even sure if there's that big of a difference between 3 camp clear and a 6 camp clear tbh. At most you're still only going to be able to get is smite upgrade + couple pots + a ward, and not enough gold for anything else I think... But I'm not too sure though.
@scip if you could upload a couple short clips of first clear with some of the popular melee junglers I would love you long time.
6 camps gets you jungle + boots, sometimes a pot depending on how long it took you.
I'm mostly getting 6+ camp clears, which I suppose means I'm playing champs that don't need the extra pots. Scip's Olaf vid is the most impressive, imo, but they certainly all demonstrate mechnics far beyond my level. If you haven't watched them yet I do highly recommend them.
What champs are you playing that's allowing you to do 6+ clears? WW need not apply.
udyr, fiddle, nunu and probably trundle come to mind
Nautilus does pretty well also, but does get a bit low before Red. No need to back though.
Whuch runes/route to do that? The thing that annoys me most is how slow he is, but I guess I'd have to cave in, and do something like 0-21-9, AS/armour/CDR/armour.
What's the way of Udyr in this jungle? I assume Phoenix and AS marks/quints, CDR blues reduces the damage he takes the most by letting him AoE down the little monsters, making it outperform Tiger?
I noticed you used AD marks on Hecarim Scip, isn't ArPen better? It was last season, because of the weak scaling to base ratio.
yeah, THS's math on the quints is spot on. You'll never kill a jungle camp in less than 3 seconds and you'll pretty much always kill the big guy last, so AD quints are better for clearing, therefore AD quints are better.
I have no idea which marks or runes you want on Hecarim, I uploaded the clear just to demonstrate that Golems->Birds->Red is a really bad jungle path, it might very well be that Arpen is better.
EPT
