EPT[Patch 4.18] Sion Reborn General Discussion - Page 93
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
occasionally it's appropriate to go for tank khazix (perhaps in a shield comp) where you'd skip damage items after Lizard Elder with the possible exception of Hexdrinker. Hexdrinker is also a good item to build on damage Kha'Zix against things like Syndra that make it almost certain you'll get value from the shield. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:45 Requizen wrote: Is LW still the correct buy if no one is building Armor? I often have games where no one builds an armor item other than straight tanks - even mids will skip Zhonyas because Silver. I usually feel fine with just Bruta/BC until later. Yes. Kill em faster now and get ahead of the itemization curve. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:45 Requizen wrote: Is LW still the correct buy if no one is building Armor? I often have games where no one builds an armor item other than straight tanks - even mids will skip Zhonyas because Silver. I usually feel fine with just Bruta/BC until later. This is a big problem with LW and Void Staff (bigger problem with Void) They're actually the correct item to buy for max damage efficiency even if the enemy team doesn't have any resistance items. Riot said this was a problem like, back in season 3, but hasn't fixed it yet. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
I've also been going Q>W>E>R, but I see some guides that say W>Q as well. Isn't Q better burst damage for ganks/fighting in general? Evolving W>E>Q/R feels the best as well, usually I don't need the multiple jump as early on and the big ranged slow feels much more useful for ganking/roaming. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Evolving E>Q>W>R isn't unheard of in pro play but unless you have a perfect idea of what you're doing you probably shouldn't do it, it's correct maybe one time out of 50. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 24 2014 02:02 Scip wrote: always max R>W>Q>E, evolving W>E>Q>R is standard although evolving E>W>Q>R is fine too, especially if you don't plan on fighting around dragon much. Evolving E>Q>W>R isn't unheard of in pro play but unless you have a perfect idea of what you're doing you probably shouldn't do it, it's correct maybe one time out of 50. Yeah that was my feeling, I went E>W>Q once when my team had decent CC but it really made my poke/gank/chase in the early game feel so weak. | ||
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Marmy
Iran1697 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:53 Requizen wrote: Cool, good to know. I've also been going Q>W>E>R, but I see some guides that say W>Q as well. Isn't Q better burst damage for ganks/fighting in general? Evolving W>E>Q/R feels the best as well, usually I don't need the multiple jump as early on and the big ranged slow feels much more useful for ganking/roaming. I go Q>W>E, because with how good W evolve is and how crucial E is to teamfighting, maxing Q second makes it feel terrible until very late. I do, however, like throwing a second point into W at 4 since the heal on point blank almost doubles. For evolving, 6 and 11 varies between E or W depending on how fast lane phase is going. I don't like R much at all, but I probably undervalue it. I just don't see it being an issue when it's too late to abuse ward vision for ganking with. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 24 2014 02:40 xes wrote: Remember when evolved Q did execution damage Yes. T_T | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:52 Ketara wrote: This is a big problem with LW and Void Staff (bigger problem with Void) They're actually the correct item to buy for max damage efficiency even if the enemy team doesn't have any resistance items. Riot said this was a problem like, back in season 3, but hasn't fixed it yet. So Void Staff first item every game? No. Void Staff is good, but damage vs. Champions is not the only thing you need in a game. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
On October 24 2014 02:53 Sufficiency wrote: So Void Staff first item every game? No. Void Staff is good, but damage vs. Champions is not the only thing you need in a game. That's nice, but it's out of the scope of the discussion. We're talking about solely if LW is a good by against people that haven't bought armor yet on Jungle Kha after he buys Lizard/Brut. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 24 2014 02:21 Gahlo wrote: I go Q>W>E, because with how good W evolve is and how crucial E is to teamfighting, maxing Q second makes it feel terrible until very late. I do, however, like throwing a second point into W at 4 since the heal on point blank almost doubles. For evolving, 6 and 11 varies between E or W depending on how fast lane phase is going. I don't like R much at all, but I probably undervalue it. I just don't see it being an issue when it's too late to abuse ward vision for ganking with. You don't undervalue R evolve, it sucks dicks Q max is just bad. The dps increase it offers is not very big even against isolation targets (+32 dmg/lvl) compared to W (+30dmg/lvl). Yes, Q does have half the cooldown of W, but it's nowhere near enough to compensate for the way slower jungling speed, the extra hp pots you have to buy to compensate for that which will delay your brutalizer and boots a bit, the way weaker fighting at dragon early where Kha excels and the poke he offers at standoffs around towers. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10561761_823064897715802_9111271816590307951_n.png?oh=eadc4120db163110b20c91d97a366e79&oe=54E85C54&__gda__=1420562141_05989815c5a71d99e670afd838f9ce91) | ||
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MagnusWolf
United States483 Posts
On October 24 2014 03:09 wussleeQ wrote: rumor is that vasilli is going to dignitas, because odee tweeted he had signed 2 players and then tweeted "welcome" in korean and chinese | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:45 Requizen wrote: Is LW still the correct buy if no one is building Armor? I often have games where no one builds an armor item other than straight tanks - even mids will skip Zhonyas because Silver. I usually feel fine with just Bruta/BC until later. "Never" finish BC before LW, unless there's like a super important fight coming up and you have the gold for BC but not LW. LW is straight-up better, unless your role is to reduce the enemy's armour for your team's real carries, so you don't rush it and only do so if you have stronger physical damage-dealers on your team. If you get ahead as Kha'Zix, building LW is better than finishing BC because it's better for your own momentum/snowballing. Sure if it's late game and you're not trying to catch and 1v1 one of the enemy carries, and your marksman is actually doing well, get BC to help him further. Last game Azir was real terror, I'm surprised Ezreal dealt so much more damage because he went BT-Gauntlet-IE-LW (and I was strong enough with Sunfire/Thornmail/SV/Warmogs to straight-up 1v2 him+Kha so I didn't expect him to do much) though. From 25 minutes onward, Azir getting a Q + autoing twice with 2 soldiers did more than 2/3rd of Orianna's or Tristana's health bar despite the MR (and Lockets on our side), his only MPen was a Guise, neither sorcs nor void staff. That was really oppressive considering the range he had on that, and the threat of his ult if we tried to initiate (basically we had to pick someone off or force his ult then disengage and fight again; then again our comp was bad against it). I'm not sure how I dealt so much damage, especially compared to Orianna, but I'm thinking the ability to ignore Azir's soldiers for a time (at least enough to make him run when I got close over manfighting me; he could do that to Tristana and win at some points or if she didn't get crits to open) is why the others did little (which by extension increased my own). Also Mallet/Randuin's/Thornmail/Tabi Volibear meaning Orianna and especially I dealt massive damage to him. TL;DR: I'm so happy people don't pick Azir. Fun facts: - Volibear dealt 1/3rd of his damage as magic - Tristana dealt 30% of her total champion damage as magic damage (Shiv over PD obv.) - Ezreal dealt slightly less than 25% of his champion damage as magic damage - I only healed 7949 health, compared to Lee > 9000 and Kha'Zix's 11900. I assume most of that comes from Spirit Stone rather than their innate sustain, since both were junglers. That'd look insane otherwise. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 24 2014 01:37 Fusilero wrote: I'd say hydra is better nearly every time for kha'zix but I don't think it's really necessary unless you're hilarious ahead and messing around. Lizard/Brut/LW into tank normally is sufficient for kha if you're W maxing like you should with Kha, hydra is superfluous. | ||
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