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any thoughts on warwick atm? I'm curious what other people's views of him are.
I've been wrecking fools with him all weekend.
i thought he was boring for the longest time, and he kinda is, but maxing e second does spice things up a bit.
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On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well.
Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed".
It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.)
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On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.)
Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything.
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On October 20 2014 12:12 Vaporized wrote:
any thoughts on warwick atm? I'm curious what other people's views of him are.
I've been wrecking fools with him all weekend.
i thought he was boring for the longest time, and he kinda is, but maxing e second does spice things up a bit.
Not sure why you would max W second or even remotely consider that. Maxing E second is the way to go.
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On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything.
Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing.
That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP.
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I vaguely recall a youtube video of someone using Quinn top and using her ult to keep assassinating the enemy jungler, I'm guessing that never caught on?
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On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP.
The term you're looking for is "Win More."
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On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More."
Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500."
I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase.
Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron.
I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine
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On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine
That is what I meant, thanks.
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On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks.
Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items.
I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good.
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On October 20 2014 13:38 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks. Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items. I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good.
No no. I was saying, that in the game that Riot has designed, its unlikely for such a champion to be able to go from Ranged>Melee without it being weak, or in the rare case, they would make it not weak, but then it would likely be OP. Like I said, its basically a more extreme version of Jax. Jax, regardless of being one of Riot's most simple champions, cannot be balanced by Riot at the moment.
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On October 20 2014 13:58 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:38 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks. Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items. I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good. No no. I was saying, that in the game that Riot has designed, its unlikely for such a champion to be able to go from Ranged>Melee without it being weak, or in the rare case, they would make it not weak, but then it would likely be OP. Like I said, its basically a more extreme version of Jax. Jax, regardless of being one of Riot's most simple champions, cannot be balanced by Riot at the moment.
I kind of disagree with that too. I think the ability itself is strong, you're just looking at it wrong. Most people look at it wr ong. You have this idea that it needs to be this full fight thing, but it really doesn't.
Tell an akali player that she could spend the hard first moments of a teamfight auto attacking from quinn range and they'd all think that was over powered as all hell, but for side reason despite Quinn literally having that ability, no one thinks it's good. Lol.
Quinn R basically turns her into akali who used W already in a fight.
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to be honest the only thing I hate about iCanada's scenario when I play Quinn is I wish the transform version of E had a separate cd, it actually sucks a lot that it doesn't in more than 1v1 fights.
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On October 20 2014 14:08 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:58 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:38 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks. Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items. I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good. No no. I was saying, that in the game that Riot has designed, its unlikely for such a champion to be able to go from Ranged>Melee without it being weak, or in the rare case, they would make it not weak, but then it would likely be OP. Like I said, its basically a more extreme version of Jax. Jax, regardless of being one of Riot's most simple champions, cannot be balanced by Riot at the moment. I kind of disagree with that too. I think the ability itself is strong, you're just looking at it wrong. Most people look at it wr ong. You have this idea that it needs to be this full fight thing, but it really doesn't. Tell an akali player that she could spend the hard first moments of a teamfight auto attacking from quinn range and they'd all think that was over powered as all hell, but for side reason despite Quinn literally having that ability, no one thinks it's good. Lol. Quinn R basically turns her into akali who used W already in a fight.
Akali can also charge up 3 dashes at once while Valor has to wait 11-7 seconds between each one. So, there's that to take into account too. If you told an Akali player they didn't get reset charges and it had a recast cooldown increase of 350%-600% for it, they might not want the range.
e. Also, if Quinn is put into an "in combat" state before ulting, her speed boost is reduced to 20/30/40% as opposed to the static 20/40/60/80/100% of shroud.
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On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well.
Yeah if you build pretty much anything other than pure offense on quinn you don't do anything for the entire game. Her ult isn't for fighting or starting fights like 95% of the time.
maybe I should just make a quinn thread.
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On October 20 2014 13:58 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:38 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks. Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items. I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good. No no. I was saying, that in the game that Riot has designed, its unlikely for such a champion to be able to go from Ranged>Melee without it being weak, or in the rare case, they would make it not weak, but then it would likely be OP. Like I said, its basically a more extreme version of Jax. Jax, regardless of being one of Riot's most simple champions, cannot be balanced by Riot at the moment.
I don't see why. It seems frankly the other way around. A melee carry can only be balanced if they're a ranged carry most of the fight.
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Quinn is all physical dmg. Physical dmg is weak for melee because the itemization is so bad for building tanky and physical. Melee carry can be balanced if they scale with AP so that they can pick up actually good items. The viable melee carries are ones that can get away with building full AD + GA(but I believe that there currently are 0 viable melee carries)
Comparing Quinn ult to Akali is just silly for these reasons(and some others). Quinn for example doesn't have Zhonya's Hourglass or Gunblade healing 40% of her health every time she attacks.
Defensive AD itemization is the most pressing issue that needs to be addressed in my opinion.
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On October 20 2014 12:12 Vaporized wrote:
any thoughts on warwick atm? I'm curious what other people's views of him are.
I've been wrecking fools with him all weekend.
i thought he was boring for the longest time, and he kinda is, but maxing e second does spice things up a bit.
He's ridiculous lategame, can pretty much 1v2 or 1v3 because of that lifesteal and tankyness
He must be one of the strongest lategame champs
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On October 20 2014 15:08 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 13:58 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:38 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 13:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 13:01 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:52 Gahlo wrote:On October 20 2014 12:34 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:17 cLutZ wrote:On October 20 2014 12:14 iCanada wrote:On October 20 2014 12:11 cLutZ wrote:
I mean, her ult is more like Shyvana ult though. Which means that you are supposed to be melee and autoing in high leverage situations. That means you can have 1 (2 if Jax) offensive items then all defense, which doesnt work with Quinn well. Her ult is actually wicked good, just people use it terrible. Its not a teamfight ult, its a 1v1 item or a "All the CC has been blown / killed". It basically makes you stop being an AD carry and start being an Akali, yet people use it when you wouldbn't want to be an Akali (IE, the start of a teamfight, not to cleanup easy kills.) Arent those high leverage situations? ITs the classic issue, upfrint burst > backend anything. Not really, its more of a "hey we already won the fight but now I can win it more" thing. That, and the shear cross map mobility. Like hey I'm splitpushing bot, but still was able to participate in Baron even though I dont have TP. The term you're looking for is "Win More." Point is just that in Critical situations it still better to be ranged. Bird ult is a travel thing or a "Hey I can get 1500 gold out of this fight instead of 500." I think it is a good ult, I dunno its not like Magic the gathering where just winning and "winning more" dont really make a difference. If you can have IE 5 minutes sooner thats actually a big deal, because that lets you exert a huge pressure early. I mean, obviously winning the game with a small lead or a huge lead is the same, but winning a team fight with a small margin or a large margin makes a huge difference to winning, which is why I avoided the "win more" direct phrase. Its not as much winning the game more as it is getting a two card advantage instead of a one card advantage. Its the difference between barely winning a fight 3 for 2 and not being able to force an objective, or winning 5 for 2 and getting a tower / baron. I think the long range mobility just isn't as useful as the short range. I think her damage is fine That is what I meant, thanks. Oh, I thouht you were trying to say they should make it so you want to be melee in those situations, which I honestly just dont agree with that assessment. I dont think the ult needs to be the focal point of the kit, its just a driver that helps her reach her Midgame powercurve peak faster, because lets be real, she is a great AD carry but not the kind of carry who is best at the 6 item mark. She is best when she has 1 maybe two items. I think if anything she just needs slightly more lane dominance over like Tristy / Kog / Corki, but like... thats a thing where literally none of the carries that should have that do have that except for Lucian, who is just kind of borked because his lategame is also hella good. No no. I was saying, that in the game that Riot has designed, its unlikely for such a champion to be able to go from Ranged>Melee without it being weak, or in the rare case, they would make it not weak, but then it would likely be OP. Like I said, its basically a more extreme version of Jax. Jax, regardless of being one of Riot's most simple champions, cannot be balanced by Riot at the moment. I don't see why. It seems frankly the other way around. A melee carry can only be balanced if they're a ranged carry most of the fight.
Yes, and?
A melee carry that is ranged until cleanup is just a snowbally ranged carry. Like Jinx with a ranged passive. Its nothing to look at.
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On October 20 2014 16:07 Pulimuli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 12:12 Vaporized wrote:
any thoughts on warwick atm? I'm curious what other people's views of him are.
I've been wrecking fools with him all weekend.
i thought he was boring for the longest time, and he kinda is, but maxing e second does spice things up a bit. He's ridiculous lategame, can pretty much 1v2 or 1v3 because of that lifesteal and tankyness He must be one of the strongest lategame champs
i think he is one of the easiest champions to flat out prevent from reaching that lategame mode though
if he does build that tank you can usually ignore him in fights as well
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EPT
