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On October 08 2014 02:27 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 02:18 Sufficiency wrote:On October 08 2014 02:13 iCanada wrote:
I don't think I implied that was the case. More that most mordes I come across are quite easy to kill.
You're putting words in my mouth if you think I said he was unplayable. I just said I got excited as a jungle. That's not me trolling, that's you being hyper sensative.
Every jungle likes easy ganks. As a jungler I get giddy when I see people lock in morde, I know for a fact I can kill him at least four times during lane and take a tower / Dragon each time.
It's basically freelo. Only time you can't flat out kill Morde with jungle pressure is if he's bad in the first place and getting completely smashed regardless. Any other questions? To be fair, the majority of the time in solo queue, easy ganks are usually freelo. If you knew your jungle would gank more successfully than the other teams, what would you say your teams chances of winning were? Is having easier ganks not having a higher percentage chance to have your jungle out gank theirs?
Easier ganks = unplayable
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On October 08 2014 02:22 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 02:19 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of
In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?
You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched. Yeah because surprise champions make up a teamcomp that determines their worth. If the same does go for items, can you please name another example where an item X is a must buy in competitive and isn't in soloqueue? Or the other way around? Isn't it more stretched that you're assuming voice com and latency makes an item that is bought 100% of the time in pro play become inferior to another item? Rengar. Competitve Rengar builds tanky for survivability. He is there to facilitate for his team, not to one shot people. In solo queue you try to carry so you build damage. You can't just rely on your teammates to do the damage.
It's like you don't' even watch LPL. Damage build is only way to go,
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On October 08 2014 02:37 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 02:35 Sufficiency wrote:On October 08 2014 02:31 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:22 Sufficiency wrote:On October 08 2014 02:19 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of
In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?
You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched. Yeah because surprise champions make up a teamcomp that determines their worth. If the same does go for items, can you please name another example where an item X is a must buy in competitive and isn't in soloqueue? Or the other way around? Isn't it more stretched that you're assuming voice com and latency makes an item that is bought 100% of the time in pro play become inferior to another item? Rengar. Competitve Rengar builds tanky for survivability. He is there to facilitate for his team, not to one shot people. In solo queue you try to carry so you build damage. You can't just rely on your teammates to do the damage. http://www.probuilds.net/champions/RengarHow come pros here are doing the soloqueue build and they aren't for janna? I don't see much tankiness in here at all. Interesting. You should just keep doing that Spellthief build then. and perhaps you should stop going coin.
I think this is a far more reasonable proposition.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 08 2014 02:11 krndandaman wrote:
Aside from all that, I find it ridiculous that you think the difference between soloqueue and competitive is so large that you even start a totally different item on a champion. Name another support let alone champion that has a must buy item that differs based on competitive/soloqueue.
I don't have a bone in the Janna debate, but I think you have it backwards. Itemization between competitive and solo queue is often very different, and particularly so for supports. Even the top solo queue supports do not buy 20+ pink wards a game. Back in season 3 you would see support Annies finish games with nothing other than boots (sometimes never even saving up enough for a sightstone).
As far as non-ward itemization goes, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that in competitive, where you know your ADC's tendencies and can harass more aggressively because you're in sync with him, you might want to pick a more harass-y item instead of something more passive. Kind of like how you might rush Mikael's instead of Mejai's if you trust your ADC.
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Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
I have a question Sufficiency. If you bought boots on Janna, would you still get Talisman?
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On October 08 2014 02:41 Ketara wrote:
Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
Annie support was season 3. Royal brought it out in S3 Worlds, and it grew to popularity from there. I believe the Chinese scene was also using Annie support in LPL(mostly Royal)
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On October 08 2014 02:41 Ketara wrote:
Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
I have a question Sufficiency. If you bought boots on Janna, would you still get Talisman?
Annie support was most definitely at S3 worlds because of Royal Club, but I just checked and the game I'm thinking of was FNC v Royal Club with Tabe on Lulu support rather than Annie.
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On October 08 2014 02:41 Ketara wrote:
Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
I have a question Sufficiency. If you bought boots on Janna, would you still get Talisman?
Did you not watch s3wc?
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United States23745 Posts
On October 08 2014 02:43 ketchup wrote:Annie support was season 3. Royal brought it out in S3 Worlds, and it grew to popularity from there. I believe the Chinese scene was also using Annie support in LPL(mostly Royal)
I thought it was more of a niche pick in Season 3, like Royal would run it mostly if they went 2v1 mid but then they brought it to the normal Bot lane during Season 3 World Championship. It didn't peak in popularity till early Season 4 though.
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It was copied by several teams, although they used it "conventionally" and not when they sent their duo mid to deny farm. I remember Yango harping on it because he thought they were mindlessly copying a pick without looking at why it's successful.
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On October 08 2014 02:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 02:37 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:35 Sufficiency wrote:On October 08 2014 02:31 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:22 Sufficiency wrote:On October 08 2014 02:19 krndandaman wrote:On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of
In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?
You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched. Yeah because surprise champions make up a teamcomp that determines their worth. If the same does go for items, can you please name another example where an item X is a must buy in competitive and isn't in soloqueue? Or the other way around? Isn't it more stretched that you're assuming voice com and latency makes an item that is bought 100% of the time in pro play become inferior to another item? Rengar. Competitve Rengar builds tanky for survivability. He is there to facilitate for his team, not to one shot people. In solo queue you try to carry so you build damage. You can't just rely on your teammates to do the damage. http://www.probuilds.net/champions/RengarHow come pros here are doing the soloqueue build and they aren't for janna? I don't see much tankiness in here at all. Interesting. You should just keep doing that Spellthief build then. and perhaps you should stop going coin. I think this is a far more reasonable proposition.
I haven't seen a single convincing argument to suggest Spellthief is vastly superior like some people are claiming here. The best I can concede is that Spellthief is better in a match up that Janna is strong at, particularly Taric and maybe Leona.
What I have seen so far are:
1. Pros do it. Must be good.
2. Spellthief gives more gold. But that's only in the best case scenario and Janna's kit is hard to make the best case scenario happen.
3. FQC has better active. But Talisman's active is extremely good as well. It's not very clear cut.
4. FQC gives AP and Talisman does not. This is fair and I am willing to concede on that. But sustain isn't garbage.
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Royal brought out Annie support for like 2-3 games at S3 Worlds, and then it was banned every game after that. Support Annie was not popular in Season 3.
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On October 08 2014 02:46 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 02:43 ketchup wrote:On October 08 2014 02:41 Ketara wrote:
Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
Annie support was season 3. Royal brought it out in S3 Worlds, and it grew to popularity from there. I believe the Chinese scene was also using Annie support in LPL(mostly Royal) I thought it was more of a niche pick in Season 3, like Royal would run it mostly if they went 2v1 mid but then they brought it to the normal Bot lane during Season 3 World Championship. It didn't peak in popularity till early Season 4 though.
From what I remember, it was used more as a way to shut down high engage assassin champs that were popular at the time. You could really disrupt an assassin all-in if you could land the proper Annie stun on the target. I believe specifically, they used it as a way to disrupt Ahri's all-in during late game situations. This also helped Royal's playstyle of protect the Uzi comps that they really liked doing. The other thing is that, annie peaked in popularity starting around the time because of Royal's/Tabe's Annie usage in Worlds. You didn't see that rise in popularity before Royal ran it/did well with it(even though they were known for it coming into Worlds)
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On October 08 2014 02:41 Ketara wrote:
Annie sup was early S4, btw, not S3.
I have a question Sufficiency. If you bought boots on Janna, would you still get Talisman?
I will consider Spellthief line more favourably, yes. But I am not comfortable going Spellthief in lane vs a non melee suppprt. It's wishywashy and quite risky. I don’t want to be trapped in a playstyle when I have to take risks and poke in order to get my item's worth.
It's not like I can't poke with Coin. It's just 10 less damage before armor. I do run pickpocket so I still get a little gold frommy work.
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Annie Picks at S3 Worlds:
Royal Club: 2-0 (banned against them nearly every game after Quarters)
Gamania Bears: 0-1
TSM: 0-1
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On October 08 2014 03:01 Alzadar wrote:
Annie Picks at S3 Worlds:
Royal Club: 2-0 (banned against them nearly every game after Quarters)
Gamania Bears: 0-1
TSM: 0-1
Tabe op pls nerf Rito
I've had 6 beers, soloq or nay?
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On October 08 2014 03:05 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2014 03:01 Alzadar wrote:
Annie Picks at S3 Worlds:
Royal Club: 2-0 (banned against them nearly every game after Quarters)
Gamania Bears: 0-1
TSM: 0-1 Tabe op pls nerf Rito I've had 6 beers, soloq or nay?
Only if you stream.
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EPT
