• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:22
CEST 17:22
KST 00:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview5TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection5Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview5[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2
Community News
[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June0Weekly Cups (May 25-31): Clem doubles, 2v2 circuit heads toward finale0StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th151Weekly Cups (May 18-24): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League6
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview What kind of tool would you be interested in? TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 528 Infection Detected Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train
Brood War
General
BW animated web series: seeking contributors 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 FlaShFTW vs A.Alm Grudge Match Event The Korean Terminology Thread 14k games analyzed: Cross Spawn Nexus first good?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals [BSL22] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Why doesn't anyone use restoration? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How cold is too cold to be outdoors?
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Esportsmanship: How to NOT B…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5754 users

[Patch 4.17] Soraka/Viktor General Discussion - Page 65

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 78 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 16:54 GMT
#1281
On October 08 2014 01:53 iCanada wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 01:43 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 08 2014 01:40 iCanada wrote:
On October 08 2014 01:35 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 08 2014 01:30 iCanada wrote:
On October 08 2014 01:00 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 08 2014 00:53 iCanada wrote:
On October 08 2014 00:51 Sufficiency wrote:
Right so you need to ward too! And it's not free gank! Wow what a surprise!


Except most jungles deep ward to track other jungle anyway, and jungle probably has sightstone and oracles and you don't.



Damn. I know nothing of deep warding. I am such a retard.

Where can I buy this "oracle" item? Can you teach me senpai?


Upgrade sweeper lens.

And don't be sarcastic, doesn't add anything. I'm sure you ward jungle paths nearly every game. The wrath brush, the one near red, the pathways near wolves / Wight.



Oh you mean upgraded sweeper!

Damn. I didn't know Morde had stealth.


It's not for morde stealth, for vision control. Kind of hard to gave vision when enemy jungler is killing two ward's every minute.

In soloqueue most people just stop warding.



That's a great idea. Thanks for teaching me senpai.


Oh wait. By the time you get it you are already level 9! By that time support would have roamed mid and helped me ward! And why would you spend 475 gold just for the lower cooldown?

It's not the lower cooldown, you can clear more ward's with the upgrade...

If I spend 475 gold, I can press 4 and walk by Dragon and kill probably 3 ward's every minute or until they stop warding which is with 475 easily because then you basically have full Dragon control.

I'm sorry I insulted your favorite champion, but the butthurt here is ridiculous.


Oracle's require level 9 last time I checked. You just said free kills... I didn't know you meant free kills after you are level 9.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 07 2014 16:59 GMT
#1282
--- Nuked ---
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:03 GMT
#1283
We have already established that in competitive Spellthief is more appealing due to its passive gp10. No one was arguing with that.

Don't you think these players may also go for the same build in solo queue as practice?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 07 2014 17:05 GMT
#1284
Pre level 9 you probably have a lot less vision.

It's hardly trolling to suggest morde is easier to gank than the common mid laners. Except Yasuo, some Yasii so easy to kill, but by the sane token some Yasuo are impossible to kill, lots of outplay potential there.

For the record, I never upgraded trinkets before, but after watching every Korean jungler do it at worlds, I've started rushing it. The results have been good.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:09 GMT
#1285
On October 08 2014 02:05 iCanada wrote:
Pre level 9 you probably have a lot less vision.

It's hardly trolling to suggest morde is easier to gank than the common mid laners. Except Yasuo, some Yasii so easy to kill, but by the sane token some Yasuo are impossible to kill, lots of outplay potential there.

For the record, I never upgraded trinkets before, but after watching every Korean jungler do it at worlds, I've started rushing it. The results have been good.



Easier to gank != unplayable due to uncontrollable feeding to enemy jungler.


Thank you and have a nice day
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 07 2014 17:11 GMT
#1286
--- Nuked ---
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 07 2014 17:12 GMT
#1287
On October 08 2014 01:50 Ketara wrote:
It's because Sufficiency and Goumindong refuse to admit that they're wrong and that not buying boots on a champion is pretty stupid.

I mean it's not like you aren't one of the worst offenders here too, pot/kettle and all that.
Thing is everyone is so engrossed in their damn ego wars that whenever someone mentions how shitty these thread are becoming, there's typically someone showing up and saying "yeah X is really bad" when it's all of us who are a collective of shitters.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-07 17:13:36
October 07 2014 17:13 GMT
#1288
as a morde i go mid only to instantly push the wave then do jungle theres no point to stick around and wait to be ganked
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 07 2014 17:13 GMT
#1289
I don't think I implied that was the case. More that most mordes I come across are quite easy to kill.

You're putting words in my mouth if you think I said he was unplayable. I just said I got excited as a jungle. That's not me trolling, that's you being hyper sensative.

Every jungle likes easy ganks.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:16 GMT
#1290
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of

In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?

You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:18 GMT
#1291
On October 08 2014 02:13 iCanada wrote:
I don't think I implied that was the case. More that most mordes I come across are quite easy to kill.

You're putting words in my mouth if you think I said he was unplayable. I just said I got excited as a jungle. That's not me trolling, that's you being hyper sensative.

Every jungle likes easy ganks.



As a jungler I get giddy when I see people lock in morde, I know for a fact I can kill him at least four times during lane and take a tower / Dragon each time.

It's basically freelo. Only time you can't flat out kill Morde with jungle pressure is if he's bad in the first place and getting completely smashed regardless.


Any other questions?
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-07 17:21:09
October 07 2014 17:19 GMT
#1292
On October 08 2014 02:13 kongoline wrote:
as a morde i go mid only to instantly push the wave then do jungle theres no point to stick around and wait to be ganked

Yeah, as Morde you want to just push once, and then ward out your wraiths, and just go straight to wraiths. Morde's all about trading farm, not about denying farm.
On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of

In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?

You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched.

something something communication is overrated.
ie, royal club.
liftlift > tsm
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-10-07 17:23:09
October 07 2014 17:19 GMT
#1293
--- Nuked ---
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:22 GMT
#1294
On October 08 2014 02:19 krndandaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of

In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?

You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched.


Yeah because surprise champions make up a teamcomp that determines their worth. If the same does go for items, can you please name another example where an item X is a must buy in competitive and isn't in soloqueue? Or the other way around? Isn't it more stretched that you're assuming voice com and latency makes an item that is bought 100% of the time in pro play become inferior to another item?



Rengar. Competitve Rengar builds tanky for survivability. He is there to facilitate for his team, not to one shot people.

In solo queue you try to carry so you build damage. You can't just rely on your teammates to do the damage.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
October 07 2014 17:23 GMT
#1295
On October 08 2014 02:19 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 02:13 kongoline wrote:
as a morde i go mid only to instantly push the wave then do jungle theres no point to stick around and wait to be ganked

Yeah, as Morde you want to just push once, and then ward out your wraiths, and just go straight to wraiths. Morde's all about trading farm, not about denying farm.

if u push fast enough its not even trading enemy laner cant freeze they wont be able to tank full wave for 30s most of the time they jsut end up last hitting under turret or push it back if they have wave clear
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:26 GMT
#1296
The jungle changes hurt Morde quite a bit. He cannot take wraiths anymore (at least not very easily) until level 5.

He can still apply pressure to the lane and prevent the enemy laner from roaming though.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
October 07 2014 17:27 GMT
#1297
On October 08 2014 02:18 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 02:13 iCanada wrote:
I don't think I implied that was the case. More that most mordes I come across are quite easy to kill.

You're putting words in my mouth if you think I said he was unplayable. I just said I got excited as a jungle. That's not me trolling, that's you being hyper sensative.

Every jungle likes easy ganks.



Show nested quote +
As a jungler I get giddy when I see people lock in morde, I know for a fact I can kill him at least four times during lane and take a tower / Dragon each time.

It's basically freelo. Only time you can't flat out kill Morde with jungle pressure is if he's bad in the first place and getting completely smashed regardless.


Any other questions?


To be fair, the majority of the time in solo queue, easy ganks are usually freelo. If you knew your jungle would gank more successfully than the other teams, what would you say your teams chances of winning were?

Is having easier ganks not having a higher percentage chance to have your jungle out gank theirs?
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 07 2014 17:28 GMT
#1298
On October 08 2014 02:23 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 02:19 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 08 2014 02:13 kongoline wrote:
as a morde i go mid only to instantly push the wave then do jungle theres no point to stick around and wait to be ganked

Yeah, as Morde you want to just push once, and then ward out your wraiths, and just go straight to wraiths. Morde's all about trading farm, not about denying farm.

if u push fast enough its not even trading enemy laner cant freeze they wont be able to tank full wave for 30s most of the time they jsut end up last hitting under turret or push it back if they have wave clear

That's best case scenario, that you deny maybe 2 creeps a wave if they can't last hit under turret. But that's a bonus when you shove waves like that. You should be aiming to trade out waves.
liftlift > tsm
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
October 07 2014 17:31 GMT
#1299
--- Nuked ---
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
October 07 2014 17:35 GMT
#1300
On October 08 2014 02:31 krndandaman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 08 2014 02:22 Sufficiency wrote:
On October 08 2014 02:19 krndandaman wrote:
On October 08 2014 02:16 Sufficiency wrote:
In competitive Lee Sin is almost first pick first ban, Elise is a fairly popular pick. On the other hand, Amumu/Sejuani/WW/Rammus are almost non heard of

In solo queue Lee/Elise has mid 40% win rate. And guess who wins a lot?

You can't equate what pros need and what solo queue players need. The same goes for items. You can't just say X is good in professional, premade games when voice comm and 0 lantecy is automatically goos in solo queue. It's a bit stretched.


Yeah because surprise champions make up a teamcomp that determines their worth. If the same does go for items, can you please name another example where an item X is a must buy in competitive and isn't in soloqueue? Or the other way around? Isn't it more stretched that you're assuming voice com and latency makes an item that is bought 100% of the time in pro play become inferior to another item?



Rengar. Competitve Rengar builds tanky for survivability. He is there to facilitate for his team, not to one shot people.

In solo queue you try to carry so you build damage. You can't just rely on your teammates to do the damage.


http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Rengar

How come pros here are doing the soloqueue build and they aren't for janna? I don't see much tankiness in here at all.



Interesting. You should just keep doing that Spellthief build then.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Prev 1 63 64 65 66 67 78 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Season Finals: Group Stage 1
Serral958
uThermal657
RotterdaM308
TaKeTV 213
mouzHeroMarine157
SteadfastSC86
IndyStarCraft 50
elazer23
Classic14
Shameless11
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 958
uThermal 657
RotterdaM 308
mouzHeroMarine 157
SteadfastSC 86
IndyStarCraft 50
elazer 23
Classic 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44396
Calm 6686
EffOrt 871
Mini 755
Hyuk 321
Light 245
firebathero 243
Last 114
PianO 92
Hyun 89
[ Show more ]
hero 81
ggaemo 68
Aegong 50
Sharp 47
Free 42
JYJ 42
Hm[arnc] 28
Rock 23
GoRush 20
Shine 20
IntoTheRainbow 13
Dota 2
Gorgc7989
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Reynor73
Counter-Strike
fl0m6444
byalli611
zeus298
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor354
MindelVK8
Other Games
gofns28556
tarik_tv9300
singsing2702
B2W.Neo1132
Mlord465
KnowMe310
Hui .190
Livibee151
ArmadaUGS87
Mew2King50
SHIN 11
OptimusSC25
fpsfer 1
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV856
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 20
• poizon28 12
• Response 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2338
• Nemesis1475
Other Games
• WagamamaTV152
• tFFMrPink 7
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
2h 38m
BSL
3h 38m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
OSC
8h 38m
Wardi Open
19h 38m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
Classic vs Lambo
Clem vs Maru
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Maestros of the Game
3 days
Serral vs Rogue
herO vs SHIN
Replay Cast
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KK 2v2 League Season 1
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
Maestros of the Game 2
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Heroes Pulsing #3
Heroes Pulsing #2
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.