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On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more?
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
So 4.17 is scheduled for tommorow, time to spam Soraka games !
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There is trash talk in sporting environments. Clutz is correct in that regard. Sometimes it's friendly and if it's not friendly one of the players will be removed from the fucking team because that is not how you win games. Have you ever played a sport where you practice 2-3 hours a day 6 days a week and lift or do other off field activities together? There's no room for petty quabbles. Either you handle it or a coach will deal with you. There are no coaches in solo queue. There is not a lot of time to get to know a player. There is no players who "know this guy" and will explain it to you. There are no mediators competent to chill out a situation. Stop being dense.
League does not have the time to form the "friendly shittalk" bonds between random solo queue players unless you're in high masters or above I guess. Being a dick gets you banned. I shit talk teammates occasionally and I've been playing this game for three years without a warning, I've seen many other posts saying the same. If you're getting banned in League you're really trying hard.
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On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 15:57 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 15:00 .AK wrote:
I am not against this change because I think that I will now get banned. I am against this change because I think it might lead to Riot promoting behavior on the opposite side of the spectrum (there are people that report too much and use reports to shield their own bad behavior) which we do not want as a community.
I personally think this change will do almost nothing. I can't imagine there are that many people between chat ban and fully banned that this will actually effect playing that much. Its all about Riot seemingly wanting more reports which might make reporting "right" in the minds of people that we, as a community, don't want to think that.
Edit: To be fair, I don't actually care about this change very much. I don't think it will have an affect either way but a lot of you are acting like there isn't another argument which I believe there definitely is. Not true at all. I saw a case where a guy got banned for constantly unjustly reporting people and saying that he was going to report people when they'd done nothing wrong. Ok imagine this situation. I go bot lane as ADC with a support I do not know. The lane starts to go badly but we still have a change of pulling it back. They 4 man gank us and we lose tower and dragon. My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20". I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play". He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game". I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked". "Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment". Now he may not follow through with the report but in this situation he using the perceived power of a report to excuse his own bad mentality. I do not want this attitude to become more acceptable because some people perceive that Riot is supporting reporting so therefore they can report for whatever reason and its "good".
The important thing to remember here is that the strength of a report is modified by frequency and legitimacy of previous reports. It has been stated by rioters over and over that serial reporters have there report strength set to zero super quickly so they are completely irrelevant as far as punishing is concerned.
The best way for your reports to matter is to only report people who actually deserve it and never use the "unskilled" or "failure to communicate" reports. This will continue to be the case after the change.
The way I see it, Riot accepts that any system will have errors. In order to manage this problem they have historically set the bar for punishment so high that if you got banned in seasons 1-3 you are a super long term unrepentant troll. People who use racist language or exhibit long term low level toxicity like ending every game with "gg easy" have always deserved punishment but these behaviors are close enough to the general population of gamers that you need a really accurate system or you risk collateral damage. I can only guess that their internal metrics have given them incredible confidence to put out such a system.
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On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more?
Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation.
On September 24 2014 16:16 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:On September 24 2014 15:57 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 15:00 .AK wrote:
I am not against this change because I think that I will now get banned. I am against this change because I think it might lead to Riot promoting behavior on the opposite side of the spectrum (there are people that report too much and use reports to shield their own bad behavior) which we do not want as a community.
I personally think this change will do almost nothing. I can't imagine there are that many people between chat ban and fully banned that this will actually effect playing that much. Its all about Riot seemingly wanting more reports which might make reporting "right" in the minds of people that we, as a community, don't want to think that.
Edit: To be fair, I don't actually care about this change very much. I don't think it will have an affect either way but a lot of you are acting like there isn't another argument which I believe there definitely is. Not true at all. I saw a case where a guy got banned for constantly unjustly reporting people and saying that he was going to report people when they'd done nothing wrong. Ok imagine this situation. I go bot lane as ADC with a support I do not know. The lane starts to go badly but we still have a change of pulling it back. They 4 man gank us and we lose tower and dragon. My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20". I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play". He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game". I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked". "Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment". Now he may not follow through with the report but in this situation he using the perceived power of a report to excuse his own bad mentality. I do not want this attitude to become more acceptable because some people perceive that Riot is supporting reporting so therefore they can report for whatever reason and its "good". I don't understand in what way Riot's perpetuating that reporting for any reason is a good thing.
If you believe like I do (this change is effectively doing nothing) then why bring it up at all except to create a good feel feeling about reporting people? A random player reads this on Reddit and now reports more often simply because he is being reminded that "bad" people are getting punished out there.
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Frankly the fact they are spending hundreds of thousands to develop new systems to punish players in new ways instead of spending that money improving server strength, helping prevent the DDOS attacks, helping reward the positive players (which has been proven to help people change behavior far more than punishments) should speak volumes about riot's priorities.
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On September 24 2014 16:33 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more? Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation.
This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation?
Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation?
It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well.
Perhaps a cultural difference.
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On September 24 2014 16:57 Xayoz wrote:
This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation?
Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation?
It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well.
Perhaps a cultural difference.
I start my mornings by walking out of my room to go make coffee and see my roommates up and say "whats up fuckers". then i take a shower and make breakfast.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On September 24 2014 16:57 Xayoz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:33 .AK wrote:On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more? Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation. This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation? Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation? It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well. Perhaps a cultural difference.
Fuck is a pretty comon word here in Poland and yes, you can use it in casual conversation.
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On September 24 2014 16:33 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more? Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation. Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:16 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:On September 24 2014 15:57 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 15:00 .AK wrote:
I am not against this change because I think that I will now get banned. I am against this change because I think it might lead to Riot promoting behavior on the opposite side of the spectrum (there are people that report too much and use reports to shield their own bad behavior) which we do not want as a community.
I personally think this change will do almost nothing. I can't imagine there are that many people between chat ban and fully banned that this will actually effect playing that much. Its all about Riot seemingly wanting more reports which might make reporting "right" in the minds of people that we, as a community, don't want to think that.
Edit: To be fair, I don't actually care about this change very much. I don't think it will have an affect either way but a lot of you are acting like there isn't another argument which I believe there definitely is. Not true at all. I saw a case where a guy got banned for constantly unjustly reporting people and saying that he was going to report people when they'd done nothing wrong. Ok imagine this situation. I go bot lane as ADC with a support I do not know. The lane starts to go badly but we still have a change of pulling it back. They 4 man gank us and we lose tower and dragon. My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20". I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play". He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game". I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked". "Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment". Now he may not follow through with the report but in this situation he using the perceived power of a report to excuse his own bad mentality. I do not want this attitude to become more acceptable because some people perceive that Riot is supporting reporting so therefore they can report for whatever reason and its "good". I don't understand in what way Riot's perpetuating that reporting for any reason is a good thing. If you believe like I do (this change is effectively doing nothing) then why bring it up at all except to create a good feel feeling about reporting people? A random player reads this on Reddit and now reports more often simply because he is being reminded that "bad" people are getting punished out there.
Are you serious...? It's brought up because it's a change in policy and obviously needs to be announced. The policy itself encourages people to improve their behaviour so that they can get the end of season rewards.
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Do what we say or else we'll take something you earned away from you isn't exactly a good policy though.
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On September 24 2014 16:33 .AK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more? Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation.
The fact that you seem to think your only options are to tell him to "shut the fuck up" and not talk to him at all speaks volumes about your mindset and toxicity. How about talking to him like a human fucking being instead of being an asshole. Just like he's using a report to excuse his own bad mentality, you are using his bad mindset to excuse your being a dick.
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On September 24 2014 17:01 PrinceXizor wrote:
Do what we say or else we'll take something you earned away from you isn't exactly a good policy though.
Yeah, like what's up with laws? Do what the government tells me or I have to give them money or go to jail? What a stupid policy.
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On September 24 2014 16:59 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:57 Xayoz wrote:
This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation?
Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation?
It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well.
Perhaps a cultural difference.
I start my mornings by walking out of my room to go make coffee and see my roommates up and say "whats up fuckers". then i take a shower and make breakfast.
Roommates, not strangers. Massive difference.
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On September 24 2014 17:11 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:59 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2014 16:57 Xayoz wrote:
This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation?
Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation?
It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well.
Perhaps a cultural difference.
I start my mornings by walking out of my room to go make coffee and see my roommates up and say "whats up fuckers". then i take a shower and make breakfast. Roommates, not strangers. Massive difference.
i swore like a sailor at my brothers wedding toa bunch of people i've never met before. i was the 2nd most liked man at that wedding next to my brother. its cultural.
On September 24 2014 17:04 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 17:01 PrinceXizor wrote:
Do what we say or else we'll take something you earned away from you isn't exactly a good policy though. Yeah, like what's up with laws? Do what the government tells me or I have to give them money or go to jail? What a stupid policy.
Well you know. you kinda DON'T go to jail for minor things like being drunk in public or swearing at people or yelling at them you get fined for some of it and separated by the police for the rest, and you kinda have a trial first where you get to defend yourself. so using LAW as a example is damn ridiculous.
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I'd argue the fact they are spending tons of money to purge those who no one wants to player with a pretty awesome thing.
I'd also like to point out the honor system is a reward system, of course no one seems to care about it. How you'd even reward good players as opposed to just removing the bad ones would be truly vexing. Considering the amount of collusion and begging that goes on just to get a ribbon on a loading screen, I don't see a more meaningful reward system -ever- working.
Not to mention the entire concept of rewarding people to not be assholes is disturbing when you think about it. "Here's a reward for not calling that guy a faggot. Good on you billy" If you have to reward people to not be toxic scumbags you might have a larger problem with the culture as a whole.
Most of these "riot shouldn't worry about "toxic" players" arguments seem to me anyway to just be the people who have been banned, chat restricted etc, trying to make excuses for their past actions.
Then again I've never been banned. Mostly because my first response to someone doing poorly isn't to call them a series of words demeaning them and making comments on the sexual pursuits of that persons mother.
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Thats the best part about the arguments. if you argue against riot, you must be a problem player. lol the self entitlement in the LoL community and self righteousness is so damn huge and riot does nothing to tamper the holier than thou players. it just doesn't ehlp.
im not asking peopel to get a medal for not being a dick. but if you give rewards to the players that go out of their way to be helpful it will improve the community FAR MORE than punishing the people behaving poorly.
Especially when you use an automated system based on "player history" without telling players what that means. its arbitrary.
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Do you know how hard it is to actually get banned? I'm toxic as fuck and self aware of it and I still haven't been punished at all.
Literally the only people banned are at the extreme end of the toxicity distribution and probably too much of a shitter to be self-aware of it -- we have shining example IMOperator who gets IP banned from Twitch for blatantly violating their TOS and admitting to harassing a streamer, then banned from League, then banned from TL, and still probably gives no fucks.
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So you are merely playing devil's advocate and you've never been banned? Genuinely curious as yeah I do find it hard to see a serious reason to why I should be upset about people being banned when it's a proven point these people make the game a pain to play and make others unwilling to play due to the idea of spending 20-30minutes with someone who's entire vocabulary can be seen scrawled on a truckstop wall.
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yeah getting your first ban is usually pretty hard, once you are on the list you will be banned again for the stupidest things tho
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EPT
