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Several people here seem to think that report abuse isn't a problem because people who report too much don't "count" as much, but I'm pretty sure that you have to spam an insane amount of reports before your reports start losing value. I have a friend who reports at least one person every time he loses a ranked game, and I'm pretty sure this friend's reports count as normal reports.
Because Riot is actively promoting reporting as a good thing. And their policy wouldn't make sense if they discounted the reports of those who embrace it and actually use the report function. If I had to decide what the limit of valid reports per player was, I'd say you can issue one report that actually counts for 50 games played.
I remember that I used to spam reports for fun because I think that the report feature of LoL is abolute bullshit. For a week I literally reported every opponent and ally for a reason selected at random. I was even rolling a die for a day. And for the first three days I've had people complaining about getting a "You have been reported" message in the post-game chat. After that I didn't get any complaint though, so maybe my reports got nullified after three days of constant spamming. Maybe my "report cap" was very high because I usually don't report people at all, but this is way too much anyway.
As for people comparing the LoL ban rules to law, the major difference is that no one promotes "reporting people to the police" as something good, no one encourages you to go to the tribunal as soon as you've got a problem with someone. You go to the police or to the tribunal because you have to, when it's your last option and you can't deal with a situation in any other way. Riot does the opposite : they are constantly coming up with new punishments and they are proud about it, they are constantly witch hunting on forums and they are proud about it, they are constantly reminding you that reports pay off and encouraging you to report other people and they are proud about it. If anyone of you lived in a State that behaved like Riot I'm pretty sure you'd feel oppressed.
TLDR : Riot are the first internet nazis (lol).
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Frankly riot treats the average LoL player like a money bank, the top players like cheap celebrities, and they keep it going by reminding everyone how much BETTER they are than THESE PEOPLE OVER HERE who get punished. Its really annoying. and frankly the direction riot has been going in for the past couple years is something i'd never recommend anyone be a part of. i'm waiting for it all to come crashing down. because thats what will happen if riot continues to treat some of their customers like human trash. they prop up and excuse themselves by saying they are reforming players and making it better for everyone. but if that was their true goal, they'd use system proven to actually improve behavior rather than ones that are ineffective, like negative reinforcement. they try to train their player base like animals. They treat human beings at the level of AIG/Wells Fargo treated them. and get praised endlessly for it. its pretty silly considering the E-boner the internet has for freedoms. Riot has become one of the most exploitative companies around from being one of the most customer friendly ones.
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I love the tribunal it's like "heres the chatlogs, enjoy"
and then we get to see these people make threads saying how they where unjustly banned. We all know what happens next right?
Riot Red posts logs and the thread is 10pages+ of people saying "yeah deserved" in one form or another.
I'd love to see people try and defend themselves openly. Let's get like a weekly show of people who claim to of been unfairly banned and then Riot just shows the evidence. It'd be like one of those tv courtroom shows, but you could get a kayle cosplayer as the bailiff.
Jesus christ PX, did you just compare bank corruption and people literally having their homes taken in many cases illegally and retirement funds vanishing to being banned in a video game? That's one hell of a lack of perspective. Are you having a giggle or something? You can't be serious.
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I dunno what's being discussed here. Why don't people just try not being dicks? Stop pretending to be victims of some injust, fascist policy hellbent on putting down innocent players. If you got banned, chances are very good you're a dick, maybe tone it down a bit.
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On September 24 2014 17:27 Parnage wrote:
So you are merely playing devil's advocate and you've never been banned? Genuinely curious as yeah I do find it hard to see a serious reason to why I should be upset about people being banned when it's a proven point these people make the game a pain to play and make others unwilling to play due to the idea of spending 20-30minutes with someone who's entire vocabulary can be seen scrawled on a truckstop wall.
If someone is being treated unfairly by a company, and that company is getting praised for it, something is wrong. period. they demonize people who have been banned or chat restricted and encourage the community to shame them. Its actually really really seriously bad. and if it wasn't an internet game, but a department store, where customers who shopped too long without buying, or were rude to staff got shamed to the point of encouraging other human beings to join in. that company would issue a public apology and change their ways. or cease to exist.
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Not sure but last time I check if I started shouting at someone in the middle of a Sears and calling them a cunt repeatedly I'd be removed by security, I may even be banned from the store chain entirely if I did this repeatedly. Good attempt at a counterpoint about the secret evils of companies thou. Hell to extrapolate further I might even end up on youtube under a title of "Crazed man curses out shoppers" where I'd be mocked and laughed at in the comments or if this was the early 90's I'd be given a runner up prize by Bob Saget.
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On September 24 2014 17:43 Osmoses wrote:
I dunno what's being discussed here. Why don't people just try not being dicks? Stop pretending to be victims of some injust, fascist policy hellbent on putting down innocent players. If you got banned, chances are very good you're a dick, maybe tone it down a bit.
Just fyi I have been playing LoL for a year and a half without receiving any kind of punishment and that doesn't prevent me from disliking Riot's methods when it comes to "punishing". And I'm pretty sure no one in this thread is actually complaining about being undeservedly punished.
What you're saying on the other hand : "Don't question the punishment system because that means you're a dick" is a direct product of Riot's policy imo, and it's exactly what is problematic to me.
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the very fact that every time someone complains about how riot treats people is met with "you must be an asshole whining ect ect" or comparing it to a law system with protections for offenders of which riot has none, or suggesting people should be treated exactly the same as in real life in the exact situation is pretty laughable. if someone doesn't do their job in real life they get fired, doesn't mean you should be able to vote kick a player for not warding or feeding a lane. real life =/= in game. its relative. not everyone who gets banned or chat restricted is off swearing and raging all game every game. some people HAVE changed and still get chat restriction because they are in the system.
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On September 24 2014 17:03 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 16:33 .AK wrote:On September 24 2014 16:19 Xayoz wrote:On September 24 2014 16:13 .AK wrote:
My support immediately says "welp this game is over, ff at 20".
I tell him to "shut the fuck up and play".
He says "whatever dude, I don't give a shit about this game".
I tell him "if you don't care about winning then why the fuck are you playing ranked".
"Whatever dude reported, verbal harassment".
I'd report you. How about you say nothing in this situation instead? Or do you honestly believe, that saying "shut the fuck up and play", will actually motivate someone, instead of pissing them off even more? Maybe not but this is pretty much exactly how I would react in real life. If you are not there to win then sit on the bench. I stand by what I say 100% and absolutely would not say nothing. What recourse do I have besides talking to him? Reporting isn't going to fix that situation. The fact that you seem to think your only options are to tell him to "shut the fuck up" and not talk to him at all speaks volumes about your mindset and toxicity. How about talking to him like a human fucking being instead of being an asshole. Just like he's using a report to excuse his own bad mentality, you are using his bad mindset to excuse your being a dick.
Alright, I need to go to bed but I'll give one last response for the night.
First off, sorry for offending you. Maybe my use of fuck was not warranted and deserved a report. I don't think it does but if you believe that then more power to you.
Secondly, I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit. I know there are more options then "stfu" and say nothing but I was merely responding to the guy above you. Sure I could be nice and try and coax him back into the game but at that point its simply not worth it to me. Once someone has given up on a game, in my experience there is very little bringing him back.
Thirdly, in this context I drop the F bomb because I am hoping to sway his mind quickly and, more importantly, stop the conversation. Talking about surrendering is not healthy at all to a team environment and I was hoping to, quickly, sway his mind and get over with it. Saying fuck usually gets more of a response then just saying "please don't give up", its a lot more risky but I 100% believe there are situations where dropping an f bomb can help out in the long run. However, this might just be a cultural thing and I am 100% wrong.
Lastly, the bottom line is that I simply don't think that what Riot is doing to combat "toxic" behavior is right. Sure you can ban and report all the people you want but in my opinion this is just a blanket fix to a problem. Why doesn't Riot take a more proactive approach and actually try to form in game communities?
Why not daily clan battles to actually bring teams together? Why not stream the last couple rounds so up and coming casters would get a chance to hone their skills? I bet Reddit would eat up an idea like this.
People always talk about how the League community is bad but I would argue that its mostly because there is no community to begin with. Especially with the different ranked tiers, ranked League has become more like CoD where you need dat fat KDA instead of actually trying to win.
....
I don't know man, I guess the bottom line is that Riot feels pretty disingenuous to me about a lot of things and still gets a lot of good hype because they "fix" the community. Its cool and all they post on Reddit, but where the hell are replays and clan battles.
I think a lot of the anger over this change stems from that, but perhaps I am way off the mark.
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On September 24 2014 17:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 17:11 Mikau wrote:On September 24 2014 16:59 PrinceXizor wrote:On September 24 2014 16:57 Xayoz wrote:
This is kind of interesting tho. Is it actually ok, in the US, to tell someone to 'shut the fuck up' in any situation?
Or to use the word 'fuck' in a casual conversation?
It certainly isn't where I'm from, not even among friends, and if you do that to a relative stranger - well, it wont end well.
Perhaps a cultural difference.
I start my mornings by walking out of my room to go make coffee and see my roommates up and say "whats up fuckers". then i take a shower and make breakfast. Roommates, not strangers. Massive difference. i swore like a sailor at my brothers wedding toa bunch of people i've never met before. i was the 2nd most liked man at that wedding next to my brother. its cultural. Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 17:04 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 17:01 PrinceXizor wrote:
Do what we say or else we'll take something you earned away from you isn't exactly a good policy though. Yeah, like what's up with laws? Do what the government tells me or I have to give them money or go to jail? What a stupid policy. Well you know. you kinda DON'T go to jail for minor things like being drunk in public or swearing at people or yelling at them you get fined for some of it and separated by the police for the rest, and you kinda have a trial first where you get to defend yourself. so using LAW as a example is damn ridiculous.
I specifically included being fined in my post. In pretty much any aspect of life, you have to abide by certain rules or you will lose something. Literally all you have to do to avoid losing the season rewards is to not cheat and to not be a total asshole. I just don't understand how people can complain about this.
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On September 24 2014 18:05 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 17:43 Osmoses wrote:
I dunno what's being discussed here. Why don't people just try not being dicks? Stop pretending to be victims of some injust, fascist policy hellbent on putting down innocent players. If you got banned, chances are very good you're a dick, maybe tone it down a bit. Just fyi I have been playing LoL for a year and a half without receiving any kind of punishment and that doesn't prevent me from disliking Riot's methods when it comes to "punishing". And I'm pretty sure no one in this thread is actually complaining about being undeservedly punished. What you're saying on the other hand : "Don't question the punishment system because that means you're a dick" is a direct product of Riot's policy imo, and it's exactly what is problematic to me.
Thing is, nobody is saying that, just like no Rioters are giving out lists of punished players and encouraging the rest of the playerbase to point and laugh. The whole issue seems a strawman to me, a handful of people unwilling to accept that things happen for a reason.
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On September 24 2014 18:12 PrinceXizor wrote:
the very fact that every time someone complains about how riot treats people is met with "you must be an asshole whining ect ect" or comparing it to a law system with protections for offenders of which riot has none, or suggesting people should be treated exactly the same as in real life in the exact situation is pretty laughable. if someone doesn't do their job in real life they get fired, doesn't mean you should be able to vote kick a player for not warding or feeding a lane. real life =/= in game. its relative. not everyone who gets banned or chat restricted is off swearing and raging all game every game. some people HAVE changed and still get chat restriction because they are in the system.
People who change their behaviour after getting chat restricted will have their status shifted towards neutral. There have clearly been problems with the system where it doesn't give the proper number of games chat restricted initially, but I believe that they've fixed or are fixing that. It's not like you get chat restricted and then even if you're a perfectly nice guy after that you're just fucked and keep getting punished over and over anyway.
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On September 24 2014 18:43 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 18:12 PrinceXizor wrote:
the very fact that every time someone complains about how riot treats people is met with "you must be an asshole whining ect ect" or comparing it to a law system with protections for offenders of which riot has none, or suggesting people should be treated exactly the same as in real life in the exact situation is pretty laughable. if someone doesn't do their job in real life they get fired, doesn't mean you should be able to vote kick a player for not warding or feeding a lane. real life =/= in game. its relative. not everyone who gets banned or chat restricted is off swearing and raging all game every game. some people HAVE changed and still get chat restriction because they are in the system. People who change their behaviour after getting chat restricted will have their status shifted towards neutral. There have clearly been problems with the system where it doesn't give the proper number of games chat restricted initially, but I believe that they've fixed or are fixing that. It's not like you get chat restricted and then even if you're a perfectly nice guy after that you're just fucked and keep getting punished over and over anyway.
no. they won't. you don't gain neutral points. you gain positive or negative. you have to purely positive to get positive points and neutral play (aka playing the damn game) isn't a way to get out of the negative. once you ar ein the negative, any report resets back to bad player. troll report, rage report from a player who blames you, ect ect. anything will send you back to square one. its much harder to get out of being in negative player standing than it is to get there in the first place.
its a serious problem.
i challenge you to play on an account, get chat restricted, and then play regularly on that account and not get chat restricted for the rest of the season. its much more work to do that than to just not get chat restricted in the first place. its at the level of McCarthyism in how much it can ruin your ability to play the game normally. if you've ever played a game on a chat restricted account and mentioned you are chat restricted, you just made a mistake people will harrass and blame you if the game goes poorly, and if it goes well they don't care. the community is far worse to players being punished by riot than the players are to the community.
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People say you must be an asshole if you complain because a lot of people like me have flamed a lot and never been warned even.Getting banned in league is wayyyyy too hard dunno how you can think riot are punishing people lol.
How is it not normal to demand a lot from previous offenders?Proving you have fixed your shit shouldnt be easy...
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On September 24 2014 19:11 nafta wrote:
People say you must be an asshole if you complain because a lot of people like me have flamed a lot and never been warned even.Getting banned in league is wayyyyy too hard dunno how you can think riot are punishing people lol.
but just because you don't agree with riots policy doesn't mean you are being punished by it, so why assume the people who have a problem with it are automatically guilty. Creating a class of Sub-players and scapegoats is not a positive way to handle a community.
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On September 24 2014 18:40 Osmoses wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 18:05 Maluk wrote:On September 24 2014 17:43 Osmoses wrote:
I dunno what's being discussed here. Why don't people just try not being dicks? Stop pretending to be victims of some injust, fascist policy hellbent on putting down innocent players. If you got banned, chances are very good you're a dick, maybe tone it down a bit. Just fyi I have been playing LoL for a year and a half without receiving any kind of punishment and that doesn't prevent me from disliking Riot's methods when it comes to "punishing". And I'm pretty sure no one in this thread is actually complaining about being undeservedly punished. What you're saying on the other hand : "Don't question the punishment system because that means you're a dick" is a direct product of Riot's policy imo, and it's exactly what is problematic to me. Thing is, nobody is saying that, just like no Rioters are giving out lists of punished players and encouraging the rest of the playerbase to point and laugh. The whole issue seems a strawman to me, a handful of people unwilling to accept that things happen for a reason.
What about the weekly "Riot Ryze (not sure about the name) smites yet another toxic player on the forums" reddit thread ? That makes it to frontpage each time with thousands of upvotes, with people spamming "well deserved you troll cya :D:D:D" in the comments ?
Why has Riot been hyping up their new "ranked restriction" exclusive feature for weeks before it actually went live ?
Why is "report" the only word in LoL players' mouth ?
I don't think that it is reasonable to deny that the punishment system is actually being promoted.
We wouldn't even be discussing about it here if Riot wasn't making such a fuss about it in the first place.
Edit : also what about "report" being one of the three main options you get in the post-game lobby.
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On September 24 2014 19:05 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 18:43 GolemMadness wrote:On September 24 2014 18:12 PrinceXizor wrote:
the very fact that every time someone complains about how riot treats people is met with "you must be an asshole whining ect ect" or comparing it to a law system with protections for offenders of which riot has none, or suggesting people should be treated exactly the same as in real life in the exact situation is pretty laughable. if someone doesn't do their job in real life they get fired, doesn't mean you should be able to vote kick a player for not warding or feeding a lane. real life =/= in game. its relative. not everyone who gets banned or chat restricted is off swearing and raging all game every game. some people HAVE changed and still get chat restriction because they are in the system. People who change their behaviour after getting chat restricted will have their status shifted towards neutral. There have clearly been problems with the system where it doesn't give the proper number of games chat restricted initially, but I believe that they've fixed or are fixing that. It's not like you get chat restricted and then even if you're a perfectly nice guy after that you're just fucked and keep getting punished over and over anyway. no. they won't. you don't gain neutral points. you gain positive or negative. you have to purely positive to get positive points and neutral play (aka playing the damn game) isn't a way to get out of the negative. once you ar ein the negative, any report resets back to bad player. troll report, rage report from a player who blames you, ect ect. anything will send you back to square one. its much harder to get out of being in negative player standing than it is to get there in the first place. its a serious problem. i challenge you to play on an account, get chat restricted, and then play regularly on that account and not get chat restricted for the rest of the season. its much more work to do that than to just not get chat restricted in the first place. its at the level of McCarthyism in how much it can ruin your ability to play the game normally. if you've ever played a game on a chat restricted account and mentioned you are chat restricted, you just made a mistake people will harrass and blame you if the game goes poorly, and if it goes well they don't care. the community is far worse to players being punished by riot than the players are to the community.
Where is your source that being neutral does nothing and that any report will have a huge impact on your status? Based on everything I've read from Lyte, that's not how it works at all.
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On September 24 2014 19:15 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2014 18:40 Osmoses wrote:On September 24 2014 18:05 Maluk wrote:On September 24 2014 17:43 Osmoses wrote:
I dunno what's being discussed here. Why don't people just try not being dicks? Stop pretending to be victims of some injust, fascist policy hellbent on putting down innocent players. If you got banned, chances are very good you're a dick, maybe tone it down a bit. Just fyi I have been playing LoL for a year and a half without receiving any kind of punishment and that doesn't prevent me from disliking Riot's methods when it comes to "punishing". And I'm pretty sure no one in this thread is actually complaining about being undeservedly punished. What you're saying on the other hand : "Don't question the punishment system because that means you're a dick" is a direct product of Riot's policy imo, and it's exactly what is problematic to me. Thing is, nobody is saying that, just like no Rioters are giving out lists of punished players and encouraging the rest of the playerbase to point and laugh. The whole issue seems a strawman to me, a handful of people unwilling to accept that things happen for a reason. What about the weekly "Riot Ryze (not sure about the name) smites yet another toxic player on the forums" reddit thread ? That makes it to frontpage each time with thousands of upvotes, with people spamming "well deserved you troll cya :D:D:D" in the comments ? Why has Riot been hyping up their new "ranked restriction" exclusive feature for weeks before it actually went live ? Why is "report" the only word in LoL players' mouth ? I don't think that it is reasonable to deny that the punishment system is actually being promoted. We wouldn't even be discussing about it here if Riot wasn't making such a fuss about it in the first place. Edit : also what about "report" being one of the three main options you get in the post-game lobby.
Their logs are only posted if players specifically request them. They didn't hype the ranked restriction feature. They announced that they were working on it, just as they do for every feature in the game. It's being discussed because it's a point of discussion; all Riot did was make an announcement about it. If that's "making such a fuss" to you, then ok.
What about report being an option? Like, what is the alternative? Should it be hidden away and you need to know a secret keyword to access it? Are you serious?
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-Well you see Maluk, when a very very very stupid person says he didn't do anything and then it's proven he infact not only did those things but much worse. His entire point makes him look like an idiot, and because that person made the choice to do so in an open forum and call out and say they are a victim of being unjustly banned.. People are going to make fun of you and enjoy themselves are your expense. That's not some Riot conspiracy. That's human nature.
-Because they hype all features they put in? At one point, they even hyped dominion. Crazy I know.
-What? I must of missed the Riot memo mailed to us mouthpiece players about terms and double meanings.
Because... where else would you put it in a place easy to reach? Should it be like on a website or something? Your complaint is that it's too easy to find or.. what?
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On September 24 2014 19:30 GolemMadness wrote:
What about report being an option? Like, what is the alternative? Should it be hidden away and you need to know a secret keyword to access it? Are you serious?
In Stacraft 2 you don't have a red, obvious "report" icon right next to your opponents and allies' names. It really isn't the only way to implement a "report" button in a game interface. We are used to playing LoL so we don't notice it any more but I remember that it was very weird to me when I first played LoL. When I landed on the post-game screen I told my friends "what the fuck ? The most obvious button in the whole interface is to report people ?"
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EPT
