On September 17 2014 18:11 Eppa! wrote: Fuck it I just miss BW/SC2 scene where people had personality. Pros are no longer people they are simply human bots that play games.
I would say that people are overly sensitive but I now think people are too unforgiving. Look at football where it is a couple of matches for physically and intentionally hurting someone.
Yeah, fucking League of Legends. I'm sick of watching these pros stream all day, talk to us, post on social media, do videos with sponsors and go on shows like SI. If they can't go into another country to represent their nation for world's, make a racially offensive name and then ask its citizens how they like it, then I am FUCKING DONE.
Meh, wasn't really needed in BW. You could literally go on iCCup and just whisper whoever the fuck you wanted - 99% of the time they would respond and talk to you. Even really serious and in-depth.
Hell you could just go into op ToT) and get a game with almost anyone.
(Foreigner) pros were really touchable in BW. Gan taught me 2 hatch muta ZvT. I smoked weed with infernal, kara and ret. Ret stood next to me at a LAN and explained a game for the entire ~20m it lasted. DaZe bm'd me with mass ebay float on Blue Storm (me P). Goody discussed with me the finer points of Arbiter vs Carrier lategame PvT. I've spent hundreds of hours playing KotH with the "cool boys" - basically ToT and ESC mixers. I eventually ended up managing mTws BW team because of all the people I knew.
I still talk to many "pros" from back then on a regular basis. Sen, infernal, kara mainly.
I cant just message someone on League and talk to him. (or SC2, really). I as a fan need those new outlets - streams, shows, social media - if I want to atleast passively interact with those guys.
And its a huge factor why I don't enjoy LoL or SC2 nearly as much as I did BW. I'm just not as personally invested in the players, because the personal connection is missing.
If you played since beta and 1800 Season 1 you could be just as close to pros – like a certain other distinguished individual in the TeamLiquid League of Legends community.
Yeah but I was horrible (D+/C- depending on the day^^) and didn't get into the scene until 2005. Everyone was just so excited to share themselves with anyone, really. Well, of course not anyone - Dissy and JF were really not approachable for people they didnt know. Comes with being best in the (western) world, I guess. Only talked with them when fernal was there or in CWs.
I never play ADC, I am beyond horrible. Am currently in my Gold 5 promos and decided to hop into team builder to brush up my ADC since that is really holding me back. How is playing MF so fucking easy? Like, "I'm going to hit you for 200-500 damage in your fucking face every 4 seconds - if you don't like that please zone yourself from the XP." And at the same time I'm just derping around far from danger of retaliation...
Also what's up with the holy fucking burst on auto Q auto? Dueled a fed Rengar (granted, he was at half health) and I was just able to global him (had IE though, got 1 crit).
You're still ignoring the size of the community. LoL pros are untouchable because there's way too many fans for them to interact with their average LoL player. I mean, it's simple logic really. If they spent that amount of time talking with anyone that wanted to talk to them then they'd just be talking with people for a majority of their day, and not doing much else.
On September 17 2014 21:31 Miefer wrote: So to some people it is not offensive when i call myself as an lcs player in NA NYnig*** or in Polen polishCARthief? because u know one is what nig*** calls themself, becasue thats what i learnt from where i come from/s and the other is a stupid sterotyp. If u feal offended i aplogize, if not, i dont.
You know that referencing to Poland by it's german name can be considered offensive? Just to show you how easy it is to make such a mistake. If I saw a "polishCARthief" nick, I'd just laugh, seeing "Polen" really pisses me off. And it would be more like "szczżźćdź", because it's making fun of how they speak, not their race or what they presumably do
I don't consider "nigger" offensive, because that's just the way they were initially called. The word in itself has nothing wrong, it's the use and its perceived intent that irks people (I'd have used causasian as an example, but it's hype to use it ironically to describe a "normal" person so meh). I even find rather pathetic how a black guy saying nigger is normal but anyone else using it and all shit's lost.
ChingChong's used to mock their way of speaking, which may sound innocent to you but its "standard" use is derogatory and someone using it without trying to be offensive is usually more from ignorance regarding that than anything else. I don't know how it's perceived in your country, but in France for example if you hear someone call Polish, or even just Eastern European people "Polaks", the default interpretation is that he's being despising. Same with tching-tchong regarding Asians in general (if you want to be belittling/racist in France, then by default every Asian/"yellow" is Chinese).
On September 17 2014 20:29 RagequitBM wrote: He was also making fun of a taiwanese fan, and saying "Like my name?" showing that he knew it was racist and derogatory
From a danish perspective (at least among a lot of people I know here) it would be a joke. like having das_Beer as my name and saying "like my name" to a german guy, only for it to turn out that in some other culture, referencing beer to a german is incredibly racist.
This is more akin to Das_Sieg_Heil or Das_ArbeitMachtFrei.
I agree the punishment was harsh, but I would have done the same in Riot's position (make an example). The guy may be young, if you wanna call 18 that, but considering the steps Riot had taken leading up to this he is clearly quite dumber than average, and what's the point of having rules if you're just gonna award a slap on the wrist when they're broken.
I dunno, if a danish player made an account which had a name which made fun of swedish, and used it to practice for dreamhack, would they really kick him from the tournament? Or some account about how danish sounds like a german eating a potato, and used it to practice for cph games. Those kind of jokes are just sort of accepted in Scandinavia, at least in my experiences.
But imo there are plenty of ways they could have punished him. A larger fine, giving SK as a whole a larger fine, a public apology at the event, fine him (with the fine going to some anti-racism campaign,) have him meet with some public anti-racism activists, etc. Or punish him in the more long term, ban him from the next LCS season, or something like that.
It just feels like they didn't want to risk any drama overshadowing the event, so they completely kicked him from the entire taiwan portion of the event, rather then actually try and run damage control.
Hell they could have just given a seeding advantage, or made him miss one game if they really wanted to punish him in the tourney. And even if they leave him in, and just fine him or whatever, I doubt there'd be actual outrage or anything. Hell it would probably massively increase the interest in the TPA vs SK game :p
On the other hand, wtf was SK management and coaches doing, I find it hard to believe nobody else on the team/staff realised what he'd named his account until it was in the papers
There is a massive difference between what is acceptable around friends/family or even some random strangers when you are just some random person, and what is acceptable when you are representing your country/region in the spotlight. His name wouldn't cause much of a stir pretty much anywhere when just used in a LAN for playing with friends or whatever. Sure, people would just laugh at it mostly and almost nobody would be offended. When you are in the spotlight though the rules change, that's just how it is. These players are marketing tools for Riot, that's why they get paid, and that's why they get held to a high standard. Choosing an offensive name reflects poorly on Riot, and that's why they reacted like they did.
Now I'd place less blame with Svenskeren and more with SK too, since the players are obviously mostly quite immature, but that's why teams have support staff that should be paying attention to this sort of thing and taking care of it before it ever gets to Riot.
In Scandinavian countries this would not even be noticed. It is very much a cultural thing and I personally see nothing offensive in the name since its obviously in good faith from svens perspective.
I don't think you have any idea what obviously means.
It means that there is nobody on this forum who genuinely thinks that Svenskeren's primary purpose was to offend the Taiwanese.
Just because you don't have ill-intent doesn't mean your thoughts aren't. I mean, it's like calling someone a dumbass without intent to offend him: you're still belittling him in your view by thinking that.
It is 3 matches and 2500$ (£? Idk). He was laughing his ass off to that "punishment". IWD was banned for a YEAR out of competitive LoL for less. If I was in IWD's shoes, I would demand compensation for my 1-year-ban after hearing this. If this is the standard, even Apdo could demand a reduce of punishment.
REALLY off topic: What would French people do if you call Jan Polak "Monsieur Polak" in public?
lol at people saying he didn't know his ID was racist.
The phrase "ching chong" literally has no meaning outside of being a derogatory term making fun of Oriental languages. I don't know how it reads as anything other than a racial slur when it's literally a nonsensical phrase unless read as a racial slur.
You can't even compare this to potentially offensive phrases in other languages that have real meaning when read literally--and which just happen to be offensive because of certain connotations (in which case, ignorance may be defensible because you might understand the literal meaning of the phrase without understanding it's connotations)--"ching chong" doesn't have any actual meaning outside of being a racial slur. There's no literal reading of the phrase devoid of connotations because it's a gibberish phrase.
It's important to note that even if Svenskeren didn't think he was being offensive, doesn't mean that Taipeichingchong isn't actually offensive. Considering the shitstorm it caused in the TW community, I'm not surprised the punishment is as harsh as it is.
"As a white Caucasian male I don't know why these other people get all offended when I use words that have no meaning aside from mocking their heritage. They can't prove I intended to offend them, and I don't think they should be offended, so they shouldn't be offended."
One of the advantages of being white is that there's no racial epithet that can be meaningfully used against you. The closest equivalent would be mocking September 11 if you're American or the Holocaust if you're Jewish. It's a series of words that have no meaning aside from belittling another person's heritage.
On September 17 2014 18:11 Eppa! wrote: Fuck it I just miss BW/SC2 scene where people had personality. Pros are no longer people they are simply human bots that play games.
I would say that people are overly sensitive but I now think people are too unforgiving. Look at football where it is a couple of matches for physically and intentionally hurting someone.
Yeah, fucking League of Legends. I'm sick of watching these pros stream all day, talk to us, post on social media, do videos with sponsors and go on shows like SI. If they can't go into another country to represent their nation for world's, make a racially offensive name and then ask its citizens how they like it, then I am FUCKING DONE.
Meh, wasn't really needed in BW. You could literally go on iCCup and just whisper whoever the fuck you wanted - 99% of the time they would respond and talk to you. Even really serious and in-depth.
Hell you could just go into op ToT) and get a game with almost anyone.
(Foreigner) pros were really touchable in BW. Gan taught me 2 hatch muta ZvT. I smoked weed with infernal, kara and ret. Ret stood next to me at a LAN and explained a game for the entire ~20m it lasted. DaZe bm'd me with mass ebay float on Blue Storm (me P). Goody discussed with me the finer points of Arbiter vs Carrier lategame PvT. I've spent hundreds of hours playing KotH with the "cool boys" - basically ToT and ESC mixers. I eventually ended up managing mTws BW team because of all the people I knew.
I still talk to many "pros" from back then on a regular basis. Sen, infernal, kara mainly.
I cant just message someone on League and talk to him. (or SC2, really). I as a fan need those new outlets - streams, shows, social media - if I want to atleast passively interact with those guys.
And its a huge factor why I don't enjoy LoL or SC2 nearly as much as I did BW. I'm just not as personally invested in the players, because the personal connection is missing.
If you played since beta and 1800 Season 1 you could be just as close to pros – like a certain other distinguished individual in the TeamLiquid League of Legends community.
Yeah but I was horrible (D+/C- depending on the day^^) and didn't get into the scene until 2005. Everyone was just so excited to share themselves with anyone, really. Well, of course not anyone - Dissy and JF were really not approachable for people they didnt know. Comes with being best in the (western) world, I guess. Only talked with them when fernal was there or in CWs.
I never play ADC, I am beyond horrible. Am currently in my Gold 5 promos and decided to hop into team builder to brush up my ADC since that is really holding me back. How is playing MF so fucking easy? Like, "I'm going to hit you for 200-500 damage in your fucking face every 4 seconds - if you don't like that please zone yourself from the XP." And at the same time I'm just derping around far from danger of retaliation...
Also what's up with the holy fucking burst on auto Q auto? Dueled a fed Rengar (granted, he was at half health) and I was just able to global him (had IE though, got 1 crit).
You're still ignoring the size of the community. LoL pros are untouchable because there's way too many fans for them to interact with their average LoL player. I mean, it's simple logic really. If they spent that amount of time talking with anyone that wanted to talk to them then they'd just be talking with people for a majority of their day, and not doing much else.
This. Even at its height BW was orders of magnitude smaller than LoL is now.
By way of comparison, more people play LoL each day than the total number of every next-gen console sold ever around the world. More than the ten largest cities in the US combined. The Halo franchise has logged about 5 billion hours of gameplay total; two years ago, LoL logged a billion hours every month, and since then the userbase has more than doubled.
Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
On September 18 2014 00:06 Kenpark wrote: Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
If he didnt know it was offensive he would not have been taunting a fan with it. That really is the most damning piece of evidence.
On September 18 2014 00:06 Kenpark wrote: Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
On September 18 2014 00:06 Kenpark wrote: Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
Its called Schnick Schnack Schnuck.
No response to the size difference in the professional scenes or are you pretty much conceding that point?
On September 17 2014 18:00 -Zoda- wrote: No they are not harsh. What does it change it's incidental or not ? This guy has already been fined for toxic behavior and warned multiple times by Riot. If he still thinks after that and a cultural sensitivity briefing that choosing such a name is not a problem then he's an idiot, period.
When/what for has he been fined and warned before?
I thought he had been already fined before but it was just me remembering he was an asshole I guess. Anyway :
Johnsen has also exhibited inappropriate behavior in the past, including being verbally abusive to his solo queue teammates on several occasions. He has received multiple formal warnings during the 2014 LCS season regarding his interactions with other players and fans - the most recent warning was issued in late July.
On September 18 2014 00:06 Kenpark wrote: Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
Its called Schnick Schnack Schnuck.
No response to the size difference in the professional scenes or are you pretty much conceding that point?
Oh I was never arguing a point, I was stating my personal views on the matter.
On September 18 2014 00:06 Kenpark wrote: Well I didn't even knew that was an insult. Rock, paper, scissors is actually called ching-chang-chong in germany. But I guess Sven is/was so toxic anyways and deserves that punishment. But for the competition it obv sucks big time. Was really looking forward to TSM vs SK but now ... why they even bother to play the 3 games. The sub prob hasnt played any game at all with SK. Wasnt there any other punishment they could chose ? :<<<
Its called Schnick Schnack Schnuck.
It obv has many names, but ching-chang-chong is one of them.
On September 17 2014 18:00 -Zoda- wrote: No they are not harsh. What does it change it's incidental or not ? This guy has already been fined for toxic behavior and warned multiple times by Riot. If he still thinks after that and a cultural sensitivity briefing that choosing such a name is not a problem then he's an idiot, period.
So if you spend a year of your life, and a year of 4 of your friends lives, working your arses off to get to this tournament. You get a practice account, which you have to name, you're stressed, tired, and you've been travelling a ton, and you have to name it. You pick a funny name, which would have been perfectly fine to say in public where you grew up, and riot never said anything about the phrase chingchong being overly racist, why would that specific phrase be racist? Oh wait, our entire team is (essentially) booted from the tournament.
Like, ofc racism is bad, but essentially ruining one of the groups of the supposedly most competitive tournament in the world, because an 18 year old kid said something he didn't even realize was racist?
I'd like to think in this day and age punishments are judged based on the intentions behind the action, not purely on the end result. Like I'd hate for someone who planned out and intentionally ran someone over to be punished identically to someone who accidentally hit a pedestrian on a dark, rainy night.
Holy fuck I can't even believe you made this argument.
A) He knew, he had cultural sensitivity training, and since when has "ChingChong" been used for anything but a racial slur? B) It's not about the intentions. It made national news in Taiwan. There's no way he was going unpunished after that. C) It's not just about the name, if you read the ruling he also was a dick to people on the SEA server and rubbed their faces in it.
Like, seriously, how the fuck can you defend this guy? Even the most hardcore SK fans i know are pissed at him/want him off the team.
On September 17 2014 18:11 Eppa! wrote: Fuck it I just miss BW/SC2 scene where people had personality. Pros are no longer people they are simply human bots that play games.
I would say that people are overly sensitive but I now think people are too unforgiving. Look at football where it is a couple of matches for physically and intentionally hurting someone.
Yeah, fucking League of Legends. I'm sick of watching these pros stream all day, talk to us, post on social media, do videos with sponsors and go on shows like SI. If they can't go into another country to represent their nation for world's, make a racially offensive name and then ask its citizens how they like it, then I am FUCKING DONE.
Meh, wasn't really needed in BW. You could literally go on iCCup and just whisper whoever the fuck you wanted - 99% of the time they would respond and talk to you. Even really serious and in-depth.
Hell you could just go into op ToT) and get a game with almost anyone.
(Foreigner) pros were really touchable in BW. Gan taught me 2 hatch muta ZvT. I smoked weed with infernal, kara and ret. Ret stood next to me at a LAN and explained a game for the entire ~20m it lasted. DaZe bm'd me with mass ebay float on Blue Storm (me P). Goody discussed with me the finer points of Arbiter vs Carrier lategame PvT. I've spent hundreds of hours playing KotH with the "cool boys" - basically ToT and ESC mixers. I eventually ended up managing mTws BW team because of all the people I knew.
I still talk to many "pros" from back then on a regular basis. Sen, infernal, kara mainly.
I cant just message someone on League and talk to him. (or SC2, really). I as a fan need those new outlets - streams, shows, social media - if I want to atleast passively interact with those guys.
And its a huge factor why I don't enjoy LoL or SC2 nearly as much as I did BW. I'm just not as personally invested in the players, because the personal connection is missing.
If you played since beta and 1800 Season 1 you could be just as close to pros – like a certain other distinguished individual in the TeamLiquid League of Legends community.
Yeah but I was horrible (D+/C- depending on the day^^) and didn't get into the scene until 2005. Everyone was just so excited to share themselves with anyone, really. Well, of course not anyone - Dissy and JF were really not approachable for people they didnt know. Comes with being best in the (western) world, I guess. Only talked with them when fernal was there or in CWs.
I never play ADC, I am beyond horrible. Am currently in my Gold 5 promos and decided to hop into team builder to brush up my ADC since that is really holding me back. How is playing MF so fucking easy? Like, "I'm going to hit you for 200-500 damage in your fucking face every 4 seconds - if you don't like that please zone yourself from the XP." And at the same time I'm just derping around far from danger of retaliation...
Also what's up with the holy fucking burst on auto Q auto? Dueled a fed Rengar (granted, he was at half health) and I was just able to global him (had IE though, got 1 crit).
You're still ignoring the size of the community. LoL pros are untouchable because there's way too many fans for them to interact with their average LoL player. I mean, it's simple logic really. If they spent that amount of time talking with anyone that wanted to talk to them then they'd just be talking with people for a majority of their day, and not doing much else.
Like...are you seriously saying you dont enjoy league or SC2 because the top-tier players dont want to talk to you, a random scrub.
Hands in the air for anybody who wants to talk to a random scrub.
These people interact with players they meet in games and through their streams, its literally impossible to do it publicly anymore (like a chatroom) because of the 50,000 people who will run screaming and pulling on their dick at them shouting memes and thinking they're grade A #1 inspirational innovative troll world. I cant count the number of stories ive heard of "X progamer is such a nice guy, i met him in a game and afterwards we talked for like 20 minutes about the game and random shit!" in league and SC2 because it happens all the time, the enviroment is controlled enough to allow them to do it.
Also svenskeren is a racist dickbag and anyone claiming he isnt / what he did isnt is probably one too. Telling random asians "Hey ching chong" isnt racist? Like fucking really?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/S4NPb2d.jpg)
