|
On September 12 2014 10:56 Celial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 10:04 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:52 miicah wrote:On September 12 2014 09:47 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Jax thrives in 1v1. You don't really beat Jax after he gets farm/levels unless he's bad or you are somehow able to dodge his E.
That being said, Frozen Heart + 40% cdr Wither should be able to let you duel Jax reasonably well.
If you're talking teamfight, it really depends. Wither really really shuts down Jax for the duration of the spell, but Nasus wrecks AD carries if you can get to them (which is somewhat hard nowadays after all the range nerfs). Good eye! That's pretty much what happens, he throws everything at me and I don't win duels but it's near even if I have the damage. Do you have suggestions for items? After Trinity Force I'm pretty lost. Did you max E second (spirit fire) like Snoopeh did? You really need to max W (wither) second versus a Jax. Your item build was fine although I probably would have gone Iceborn Gauntlet instead of Triforce. Look up sirhcez, he's a Diamond 1 Nasus main for more tips. http://www.twitch.tv/sirhcezhttp://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/19717808 Trinity isn't good? I love Trinity and I get Iceborn after Triforce (I just won this game: ) Why is Wither more important for Jax? Is it because of his attack speed? Are there other champs I should max W first? I by mistake maxed Wither against Pantheon but I wrecked him so hard, it was awesome! I also get Sunfire Cape if the other team has a ton of melee. Nonononononono. Triforce and IBG do NOT work together. If you know DotA 2, imagine the proc being like an orb effect that only triggers for a short while after you used a spell. You only get the AA modifier of the last item you bought. The only reason you buy Triforce is because of the DPS of the proc. If you have both, you lose that. Also yes. Jax is entirely AA based. If he takes free damage without hitting someone in return he dies horribly. Should you ever encounter a Vayne top and not feed like a retard you can also max Wither vs her. Else just max Q and stack the jungle or smth... But in this day and age you probably never meet one.
So which is more ideal Triforce or IBG?
320 Q stacks in under 20 mintues :D
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zVL9bGa.png)
|
On September 12 2014 22:00 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 10:56 Celial wrote:On September 12 2014 10:04 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:52 miicah wrote:On September 12 2014 09:47 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Jax thrives in 1v1. You don't really beat Jax after he gets farm/levels unless he's bad or you are somehow able to dodge his E.
That being said, Frozen Heart + 40% cdr Wither should be able to let you duel Jax reasonably well.
If you're talking teamfight, it really depends. Wither really really shuts down Jax for the duration of the spell, but Nasus wrecks AD carries if you can get to them (which is somewhat hard nowadays after all the range nerfs). Good eye! That's pretty much what happens, he throws everything at me and I don't win duels but it's near even if I have the damage. Do you have suggestions for items? After Trinity Force I'm pretty lost. Did you max E second (spirit fire) like Snoopeh did? You really need to max W (wither) second versus a Jax. Your item build was fine although I probably would have gone Iceborn Gauntlet instead of Triforce. Look up sirhcez, he's a Diamond 1 Nasus main for more tips. http://www.twitch.tv/sirhcezhttp://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/19717808 Trinity isn't good? I love Trinity and I get Iceborn after Triforce (I just won this game: ) Why is Wither more important for Jax? Is it because of his attack speed? Are there other champs I should max W first? I by mistake maxed Wither against Pantheon but I wrecked him so hard, it was awesome! I also get Sunfire Cape if the other team has a ton of melee. Nonononononono. Triforce and IBG do NOT work together. If you know DotA 2, imagine the proc being like an orb effect that only triggers for a short while after you used a spell. You only get the AA modifier of the last item you bought. The only reason you buy Triforce is because of the DPS of the proc. If you have both, you lose that. Also yes. Jax is entirely AA based. If he takes free damage without hitting someone in return he dies horribly. Should you ever encounter a Vayne top and not feed like a retard you can also max Wither vs her. Else just max Q and stack the jungle or smth... But in this day and age you probably never meet one. So which is more ideal Triforce or IBG? 320 Q stacks in under 20 mintues :D -snip-
It all depends on if you feel you need the tankyness of IBG. If you don't, go Triforce.
|
|
|
On September 12 2014 22:58 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 22:00 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 10:56 Celial wrote:On September 12 2014 10:04 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:52 miicah wrote:On September 12 2014 09:47 Torte de Lini wrote:On September 12 2014 09:37 Ryuu314 wrote:
Jax thrives in 1v1. You don't really beat Jax after he gets farm/levels unless he's bad or you are somehow able to dodge his E.
That being said, Frozen Heart + 40% cdr Wither should be able to let you duel Jax reasonably well.
If you're talking teamfight, it really depends. Wither really really shuts down Jax for the duration of the spell, but Nasus wrecks AD carries if you can get to them (which is somewhat hard nowadays after all the range nerfs). Good eye! That's pretty much what happens, he throws everything at me and I don't win duels but it's near even if I have the damage. Do you have suggestions for items? After Trinity Force I'm pretty lost. Did you max E second (spirit fire) like Snoopeh did? You really need to max W (wither) second versus a Jax. Your item build was fine although I probably would have gone Iceborn Gauntlet instead of Triforce. Look up sirhcez, he's a Diamond 1 Nasus main for more tips. http://www.twitch.tv/sirhcezhttp://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/19717808 Trinity isn't good? I love Trinity and I get Iceborn after Triforce (I just won this game: ) Why is Wither more important for Jax? Is it because of his attack speed? Are there other champs I should max W first? I by mistake maxed Wither against Pantheon but I wrecked him so hard, it was awesome! I also get Sunfire Cape if the other team has a ton of melee. Nonononononono. Triforce and IBG do NOT work together. If you know DotA 2, imagine the proc being like an orb effect that only triggers for a short while after you used a spell. You only get the AA modifier of the last item you bought. The only reason you buy Triforce is because of the DPS of the proc. If you have both, you lose that. Also yes. Jax is entirely AA based. If he takes free damage without hitting someone in return he dies horribly. Should you ever encounter a Vayne top and not feed like a retard you can also max Wither vs her. Else just max Q and stack the jungle or smth... But in this day and age you probably never meet one. So which is more ideal Triforce or IBG? 320 Q stacks in under 20 mintues :D -snip- It all depends on if you feel you need the tankyness of IBG. If you don't, go Triforce.
IBG offers almost no tank stats for the money because you pay a lot for the CDR, Mana, and passive. You get it if a 5s slow every 7-8s still isn't enough to stick to people (if they have dashes or cleanses or whatever).
|
On September 12 2014 23:07 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 13:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Guys remember they reworked Gragas? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. Untrue. Gragas became a monster top and they had to nerf his sustain. The rework just moved him from mid to top. Kass, true Xerath. WTF? He gets more play now, I barley ever saw him before. Nid, play changed, shes often banned and just goes ad top instead of AP mid. maybe slight nerf but more just a lane move like grag. Lucain rework. Still same, if not more fun! (that range though gonna make him unplayable...)
I think it was sarcasm 
|
On September 12 2014 23:07 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 13:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Guys remember they reworked Gragas? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. Untrue. Gragas became a monster top and they had to nerf his sustain. The rework just moved him from mid to top. Kass, true Xerath. WTF? He gets more play now, I barley ever saw him before. Nid, play changed, shes often banned and just goes ad top instead of AP mid. maybe slight nerf but more just a lane move like grag. Lucain rework. Still same, if not more fun! (that range though gonna make him unplayable...)
The point was that a large amount of the reworks Riot does is immediately labeled as failures by people that try to play the champion the exact same say or with little experimentation and get frustrated that it doesn't work. Then a few small tweaks and a month or so later it's a top pick.
|
On September 12 2014 23:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 23:07 JimmiC wrote:On September 12 2014 13:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Guys remember they reworked Gragas? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. Untrue. Gragas became a monster top and they had to nerf his sustain. The rework just moved him from mid to top. Kass, true Xerath. WTF? He gets more play now, I barley ever saw him before. Nid, play changed, shes often banned and just goes ad top instead of AP mid. maybe slight nerf but more just a lane move like grag. Lucain rework. Still same, if not more fun! (that range though gonna make him unplayable...) The point was that a large amount of the reworks Riot does is immediately labeled as failures by people that try to play the champion the exact same say or with little experimentation and get frustrated that it doesn't work. Then a few small tweaks and a month or so later it's a top pick.
To be fair the Xerath change was regarded as a failure not because of strength but because people felt his prior kit was fine and the new kit doesn't do anything to make him more popular than before. He's also at similiar power strength as before.
|
The primary goal of reworks is also not power balance but to make the champion easier to understand how to play and understand how to play against. The biggest problem with old Xerath is the 40% innate mpen that is an obscure damage buff for >50% (low Bronze 1) of the playerbase to understand. From an accessibility standpoint, having one of your biggest sources of damage be something that does no damage is weird and clunky.
Something else to tackle would be the MS soft caps and slow stacking, because my roommate builds shit like Rylai's Nunu all the time and it completely baffles me.
|
I don't remember people saying Gragas was going to suck, he was just no longer going to be a really heavy burst mage (explosive cask wtf). In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone was complaining about how retarded his sustain was going to be.
Whether Kass was actually nerfed or buffed, I don't know. The loss of silence hurts his ability to trade in lane, but the shield helps, though the silence is probably more valued lategame. I really don't remember anyone being sure of what was going to happen to Kass, and just waited for his numbers to be out.
And I'm almost definitely sure that there was no consensus on Nidalee.
Lucian was changed around the time that Cait was falling out of favor, and he fit in well then.
I'm pretty sure that along with "don't judge patches/reworks too quickly", "don't look at nerfs/buffs in a vacuum" is said just as commonly.
Victor could turn out to be really overpowered depending on what else happens to everything else in the game when he comes out.
|
Like, here's my problem with Xerath now.
There's basically three "long range" mages. Xerath, Ziggs, and Lux. They all have 1400 range on their basic abilities, ults with even longer semi-global range, 4 skillshots, do a lot of damage but are easy to kill if you actually get on them.
Ziggs and Lux have established identities that make them different.
Ziggs is a tower pushing / siege oriented champion. His passive does bonus damage to towers and his R does bonus damage to minions. He clears waves really easily, pushes really hard, and defends against pushes really well. He's a demolitionist and his kit reflects that.
Lux's kit is more utility based and "light mage" ish. She has 2 spells that give vision, three that can be used defensively, etc.
Xerath used to have a separate identity through his old passive and the self root. The self root made him categorically different from any other champion in the game, and the old passive gave him an identity as being fairly tanky against all AD teams. They took both of those things away and gave him a very generic mana regen passive, and made his self root only happen while he's using his global ult that you're either only in for two seconds, or use from so far away that it doesn't matter that you're rooted.
He's so generic right now and it is boring.
It also bothers me that in season 3 they nerfed Lux's movespeed from 340 to 330 arguing that a 1400 range mage shouldn't also walk so fast, in mid S4 nerfed Ziggs movespeed from 330 to 325 with the same argument, and yet released post rework Xerath with 340 movespeed.
|
Xerath has a single-target collision skillshot stun and a sweet-spot slow, both with cast animations. His Q is also super long.
Lux has a pass-through (for one additional target) root, a slow, a bullshit huge shield and she naturally builds CDR.
Ziggs has a displacement (strongest form of cc because it stops gapclosers) that's undocumented as a stun (you can't move for ~1s total, not just the knock-back) that he can always activate provided he pressed the key before you cc him, so he can peel for himself while cc'd. He has his minefield that'll prevent you from chasing for 8 seconds. He doesn't need to slow himself to reach up to 1400 range, and he has close to no cast animations 'cept on ult.
Xerath's "identity" has been mad excessively bland but he's got a reason to move faster than them.
I'm not sure if you realise, but at 340 MS Lux was one of the fastest mages around. I'd rather see champions like Malzahar, Swain, etc. who either have no self-peel or low range be able to move a bit faster, than cc machines with very long range. I'm surprised that Brand is at 340 btw (and baffled that Lissandra only has 325).
|
On September 12 2014 23:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2014 23:07 JimmiC wrote:On September 12 2014 13:49 Sufficiency wrote:
Guys remember they reworked Gragas? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf.
Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. Untrue. Gragas became a monster top and they had to nerf his sustain. The rework just moved him from mid to top. Kass, true Xerath. WTF? He gets more play now, I barley ever saw him before. Nid, play changed, shes often banned and just goes ad top instead of AP mid. maybe slight nerf but more just a lane move like grag. Lucain rework. Still same, if not more fun! (that range though gonna make him unplayable...) The point was that a large amount of the reworks Riot does is immediately labeled as failures by people that try to play the champion the exact same say or with little experimentation and get frustrated that it doesn't work. Then a few small tweaks and a month or so later it's a top pick.
Xerath currently benefits from the metagame shift which occured after his rework (and the Leblanc nerf), since midlane now is a lot about shoving and rarely engaging your opponent. Which his old self did just as well, Xpeke actually played him fairly successfully up until a few week before the rework. He also lost a lot of damage, especially since they removed the free void-staff passive on root, but since his kit is a lot more generic, more people can simply pick him and not do as bad as they would have with old Xerath.
|
Hai got to challenger on KR. 70% win rate.
So much for Korean soloQ.
|
a lot of riot's reworks ARE actually failures
looking at katarina, gangplank, tyrndamere, heimerdinger
i think it's more important that they keep the original feel of the characters rather than trying to fit everything into a particular mold of 'maybe useful one day in lcs' or 'easily accessible or understood by new players'
|
On September 13 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:
Hai got to challenger on KR. 70% win rate.
So much for Korean soloQ.
What? Why would that be a knock against Korean SoloQ? I'd say props to Hai for practicing so hard. 
|
On September 13 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:
Hai got to challenger on KR. 70% win rate.
So much for Korean soloQ.
And maybe now people will stop underrating Hai.
|
It's certainly not underrating Hai after his showing at NA Playoffs. He can probably bounce back in time for Worlds though.
|
Well road to worlds part 2 is out, holy crap the story of gogoing is saddening.
I still can't believe that skt k isn't at worlds though
|
I like the fact that it shows quite well the work of kkoma who was a huge factor in the SKT win.
|
On September 13 2014 00:36 ghrur wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2014 00:15 Sufficiency wrote:
Hai got to challenger on KR. 70% win rate.
So much for Korean soloQ. What? Why would that be a knock against Korean SoloQ? I'd say props to Hai for practicing so hard.
Many people claim Korean soloQ are super challenging and super tryhard. But I honestly did not sense any difficulties for Hai to hit challenger. I doubt it is vastly more difficult than NA.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
