EPTI am still giggling on RIP Lucian.
[Patch 4.16] Azir General Discussion - Page 20
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I am still giggling on RIP Lucian. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Huge nerf. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf. Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf. Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:46 Slusher wrote: I'll be honest about the Sivir one, as one of the few players of pre rework sivir I really hated the change to W, and I said it was a nerf. However it turned out they buffed her ult to such a bonkers level that it didn't matter, as soon as I actually played it once on live I knew I was wrong, that said after all the nerfs I'm back to being sad. That's the thing. You can easily judge raw damage output via rbase/ratio/cooldown. You can't easily judge utility. Why is the new Cass going to be OP? Her E resets a lot better. She will be OP. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
actually Nidalee is kinda hard to talk about becasue she mroe than the other heros changed in her role. She was able to dominate the game on both sides of the rework but the method is 100% different | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:50 Sufficiency wrote: That's the thing. You can easily judge raw damage output via rbase/ratio/cooldown. You can't easily judge utility. Why is the new Cass going to be OP? Her E resets a lot better. She will be OP. in this case I've played the hero the damage is p bad until max stacks which takes over 35 min. The only benefit is that the heal at 70 makes her really tanky but at best it's a trade for old cass. I guess we will see then the bug is fixed for sure, but it's just reallyy hard when you have to E someone like 10 times for a kill to get any real damage compared to just Syndra'ing someone | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Give it a month and people will be asking for nerfs. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:51 Slusher wrote: uh Gragas was hugely nerfed lol, he might have still been op but old Gragas was bonkers, I still contend Xerath is nerfed and I don't remember a majority(or even any although I'm sure you can find one) of people saying Nid was nerfed ???? actually Nidalee is kinda hard to talk about becasue she mroe than the other heros changed in her role. She was able to dominate the game on both sides of the rework but the method is 100% different Just specifically with Gragas, it was a huge nerf. They buffed him the next patch, then several patches later he was OP for a short while, before being mostly removed from the meta after a few minor nerfs. The rework failed to make him a more stable champion for balance, it just made him a champion a few guys at Riot liked better. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
and also I'm really salty because I preferred Q max playstyle anyway, which is now completely terrible. if you don't max E you do even worse damage AND you don't heal | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:49 Sufficiency wrote: Guys remember they reworked Gragas? Huge nerf. Remember when they reworked Kassadin? Huge nerf. Remember when they reworked Xerath? Huge nerf. Remember when they reworked Nidalee? Huge nerf. Well to be fair about Xerath I think more people complaining were that the rework made him lose his identity more so than it actually made him weaker. Also the other examples you mentioned were huge nerfs to a specific playstyle for those champions, I think people might be bad at judging how different playstyles might also be strong. (Kass is still pretty similar but new Kass he has more of a focus on single target damage as opposed to the old one). | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
thats a design philosophy I just can't get on board with (reworking being so heavily favored over balance changes) even if most 'reworks' are more tweak than rework Well to be fair about Xerath I think more people complaining were that the rework made him lose his identity more so than it actually made him weaker. . no he's just weaker, if old Xerath had gotten a chance to live thru the Exaust no fun zone meta he woulda been every bit as powerful as Ziggs but with a free void staff and one (combo)shot capability if you eat a stun when his ult is up | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:59 Slusher wrote: I find the most interesting thing about the heros mentioned in the earlier post is that literally all 4 of them saw play in competitive as their old version either after the rework was on live or a week before (Xerath) thats a design philosophy I just can't get on board with (reworking being so heavily favored over balance changes) even if most 'reworks' are more tweak than rework no he's just weaker, if old Xerath had gotten a chance to live thru the Exaust no fun zone meta he woulda been every bit as powerful as Ziggs but with a free void staff and one (combo)shot capability if you eat a stun when his ult is up Well, Riot really hates certain kits. Xerath was one of them: ridiculously long range and huge penetration bonuses left meant that understanding how to deal with him wasn't easy enough. For the champ kits they hate they'd much rather rework than try to balance the kit they think is broken. I think Vlad is maybe the only exception, he hasn't been reworked despite being identified very early on as having a bad kit. + Show Spoiler [LCS promos from today] + Poppy's in line now, given that Morello has flat out said that if she ever saw competitive play she'd be nerfed to the ground or reworked. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35091 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On September 12 2014 13:59 Slusher wrote: I find the most interesting thing about the heros mentioned in the earlier post is that literally all 4 of them saw play in competitive as their old version either after the rework was on live or a week before (Xerath) thats a design philosophy I just can't get on board with (reworking being so heavily favored over balance changes) even if most 'reworks' are more tweak than rework no he's just weaker, if old Xerath had gotten a chance to live thru the Exaust no fun zone meta he woulda been every bit as powerful as Ziggs but with a free void staff and one (combo)shot capability if you eat a stun when his ult is up Yea, old Xerath was on his way to being very strong, Riot reworked him because they thought he was too unpopular, IMO he was unpopular because he was bad/mediocre for so long, and the new Xerath doesn't seem much more popular than old Xerath, particularly considering his FOTM status in LCS, so its not much of a success (if at all). Gragas and Nidalee, on the other hand, had power removed from signature skillshots and put onto short range and targeted abilities. I don't know why they thought they needed another generic AP bruiser and another infinite splitpusher (this time with lane bully potential!) when the old niches of Melee-Burst-Utility Mage and Mobility-Poke-Bad Waveclear are now sitting basically unfilled. New Gragas is really not that different from Maokai, Cho, Galio, AP Malphite and to a lesser extent Rumble and Singed. Old Gragas was like Diana and what? Hypothetical melee Orianna/Morgana? New Nidalee is just old Flame-Era Nidalee without the crappy pre-6 and in a totally remade game, but what did they think would happen? | ||
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