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On September 09 2014 02:54 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 01:48 SagaZ wrote:
I tough the days of listing what champions do and pretend to have smart stuff to say were over but nope
ok, garen spins, screams drops boats, has a big ass sword and is the recipient of a big part of the league memes what mechanism of comparing champions would you then fucking propose lol?
Do I really have to say it? I'm pretty sure everyone should have at least a clue of it...
I think we can all agree that soloqueue doesn't matter when comparing champion, you can make any champion work as long as you're less retarded than the enemy blablabla.
So it only matters for organized play and team comps. And when you decide what champion to pick in a comp, do you take the 2 champions in a vacuum and go. uuhm this one has a shield, but this one has a silence! I'll go with the silence, pick me Soraka! No, or at least you shouldn't.
So how do you choose? you take the one that does best what you want him to do for your team, you think about the objectives of your comp, the different power spikes you want to exploit, how to round up or specialize further your draft ect.
You don't compare 2 or more champions by listing what they do, you analyze what teams each is more suited for and decide according to what your draft looks like. (not to mention, the opponent's draft)
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On September 09 2014 02:40 TheEmulator wrote:I kind of did this in an important dota match once. Banned the hero my friend really wanted me to pick by accident.
done that as first pick for my last ban like 1000x
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Isn't that exactly what I did? You pick jungle voli over jungle garen every time because he just puts out more pressure and generates more gold from farming the jungle than Garen would.
From that position, and that role, voli is way better.
I think Garen is a better top that the bear is... like read dude, I put jungle garen in front of everything.
Likewise the comparison between thresh and Naut I pick thresh every time to support, but I take ANCHOR MAN every time from jungle.
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Not really, if you can't find one way the other champion fits better than the first, then you aren't analyzing or comparing, you're just confirming your own bias and you will feel extremely dissatisfied if someone offers a contradictory opinion.
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The only way Garen fits better in the jungle is if you are playing normals with your bronze buds for the lolz. Dude can't clear, has way worse ganks, and has way way worse objective control.
But if you're giving the two champions lane farm and don't expect them to exert most of your teams Mao pressure, I'd probably rather have Garen.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear
there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle
heres the list
+ Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean
and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
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There's a jungle Syndra main in challenger. I'd be curious so see more of his games.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
I have a pretty good winrate with Akali jungle, like 6-1 already, but I'm gold level only. Shit is so good once you hit level6, and there is no Lee sin in enemy team.
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On September 09 2014 03:55 739 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here I have a pretty good winrate with Akali jungle, like 6-1 already, but I'm gold level only. Shit is so good once you hit level6, and there is no Lee sin in enemy team.
I have a pretty good winrate with AP Riven, like 3-0, but bronze level only. Shit is so good once you get both Deathcap and Lich Bane and the enemy team is bronze.
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Twitch jungle pretty legit i thought?
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I think Sion is actually better in jungle than he is in lane
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On September 09 2014 04:05 Requizen wrote:
I think Sion is actually better in jungle than he is in lane
Isn't this statement just "Never play Sion ever"
I've seen AP Sion mids wreck face tho.
PS: Lux isn't on your list. WTF Lux jungle is legit you heard it from Scip.
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On September 09 2014 04:02 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:55 739 wrote:On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here I have a pretty good winrate with Akali jungle, like 6-1 already, but I'm gold level only. Shit is so good once you hit level6, and there is no Lee sin in enemy team. I have a pretty good winrate with AP Riven, like 3-0, but bronze level only. Shit is so good once you get both Deathcap and Lich Bane and the enemy team is bronze.
TBF, Faker was wining D1/Challenger games with AP Riven when he was in the US for S3WC.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
Top 10 champions with most Google hits for "Jungle X" plus "X Jungle":
Lee Sin 3,483,000
Kha'Zix 1,489,000
Master Yi 1,296,000
Xin Zhao 801,000
Jarvan IV 490,000
Rumble 436,700
Vel'Koz 313,600
Dr. Mundo 289,800
Cho'Gath 260,000
Vi 246,700
Top 10 champions with fewest Google hits for "Jungle X" plus "X Jungle":
Xerath 2,900
Mordekaiser 3,700
Zilean 3,850
Vladimir 4,060
Anivia 4,130
Ahri 4,440
Tristana 4,520
Draven 4,630
Swain 4,840
Corki 5,060
A crude measure but a funny one.
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On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
It's Cassiopeia. You're trying to put one over on us by spelling her name with one less vowel, and I won't stand for it.
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On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here
this is a stupid question/theoretical, but wouldn't jungle Ashe (and to a lesser extent any of the AD carries) be somewhat legit?
Part of the rationale behind jungle Ez is that his range allows him to gank reasonably with red. Plus, by virtue of being an AD carry, he scales well plus provides tower pressure early on. Ashe arguably "ganks" better than Ezreal, especially post-6.
Note, I'm fully aware that jungle [insert ADC here] is completely shit 90% of the time, but I just think it's funny that Ezreal is excluded from your list, while other AD carries aren't.
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On September 09 2014 04:52 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here this is a stupid question/theoretical, but wouldn't jungle Ashe (and to a lesser extent any of the AD carries) be somewhat legit? Part of the rationale behind jungle Ez is that his range allows him to gank reasonably with red. Plus, by virtue of being an AD carry, he scales well plus provides tower pressure early on. Ashe arguably "ganks" better than Ezreal, especially post-6. Note, I'm fully aware that jungle [insert ADC here] is completely shit 90% of the time, but I just think it's funny that Ezreal is excluded from your list, while other AD carries aren't. Her clear speed would be godawful though, Mystic Shot's damage is better than Volley's starting at level 2 and is always more spammable, and she doesn't have his blink to close in and make sure red gets applied. Wouldn't have her passive up if she cleared any camps recently, either. So she's basically bringing a little bit of damage and a 15% slow if she doesn't have her ultimate up. Seems pretty sketchy.
Jungle Blitz seems not-awful though. He saw some pro play in the EU back in like S2, when tanky utility junglers were all the rage, and I can't imagine many of the nerfs really affect his jungle.
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On September 09 2014 04:52 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2014 03:35 Scip wrote:jungle garen sucks so much dick that it's not unreasonable that he is never desirable over jungler volibear there are like 50+ champions who are never desirable as jungle heres the list + Show Spoiler +ahri, akali, alistar, anivia, annie, ashe, blitzcrank, brand, caitlyn, cassiopea, corki, draven, fiora, fizz, galio, graves, irelia, janna, jinx, katarina, kennen, kog'maw, leblanc, lissandra, lucian, lulu, miss fortune, nami, orianna, quinn, renekton, ryze, sion, sivir, sona, swain, syndra, teemo, thresh, tristana, twisted fate, twitch, urgot, varus, vayne, veigar, vel'koz, viktor, xerath, ziggs, and zilean and I've been extremely generous in my assesment here this is a stupid question/theoretical, but wouldn't jungle Ashe (and to a lesser extent any of the AD carries) be somewhat legit? Part of the rationale behind jungle Ez is that his range allows him to gank reasonably with red. Plus, by virtue of being an AD carry, he scales well plus provides tower pressure early on. Ashe arguably "ganks" better than Ezreal, especially post-6. Note, I'm fully aware that jungle [insert ADC here] is completely shit 90% of the time, but I just think it's funny that Ezreal is excluded from your list, while other AD carries aren't.
Somehow Ezreal and Twitch can hold their own (meaning they can run/hide and wait for their team mates to help) early levels vs counter jungling so maybe this is the reason they are more "viable" than the others adcs (outside of twich's invisible ganks option)
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Graves is the best ADC for Jungle. AoE clear, innate tankiness, soft CC for ganking, mobility to get over walls to save time/escape jungle duels. This is the future.
+ Show Spoiler +Note I am not serious and also bad
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EPT
