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On August 28 2014 14:47 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 14:23 krndandaman wrote:On August 28 2014 13:08 Sufficiency wrote:
Listening to Monte analyzing the CLG vs CRS game one makes me think CLG should have picked Ashe instead of Twitch, haha.
Monte kept saying they lacked engage against a Nidalee team. And we all know what Ashe can be used for :3 That confuses me. They pick a Kog mid after seeing the Nid and they want engage? Kog mid is the nidalee of the past- pretty much automatically making your team a poke comp. If they were worried about Nid splitting them to death, it's beyond me why they had Kog mid in their plans. Mao top/ori mid would've been better. Engage at anytime with Mao and go ham with bloodboiled twitch in the backline. It also makes twitch a bad pick since his siege and tower engages are terrible. Having a poke mid and a pick AD on the same team doesn't make sense. Having an AD that is bad at sieging is really poor if you're concerned about a split push because you know that the enemy team if it's winning the split will be ok with simply holding the siege. So you pick either a siege comp for your remaining 4 or an engage comp for your remaining 4/5 but you don't split the difference. Twitch isn't really either of those. Edit: Varus is the right AD. He has AoE engage and good siege with his q poke and e zone.
I found the explanation lacking because I thought the comp was a typical shitty NA comp. That is, there are very few situations where said shitty comp will actually discover its true shittiness. Most comps lose when behind, but that comp was pretty good at stalling and comebacks. It was also a good teamfight comp. Also, it was a good comp if you were ahead, because you could bait very well, and pick very well, and siege safely (but not that effectively).
This is not a bad comp, it is an arrogant comp. In other words, it is really good at winning, snowballing wins, and making 1 kind of comeback. Unfortunately for CLG, they were behind, and that lead was focused in areas that made their comp suck. Its really no different than a Malphite/Ori/Graves comp losing to a poke comp that only had 1 poke champ (i.e. nidalee mid, but no other poke champs). You didn't pick a bad comp, you failed to execute your comp properly.
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The issue with Varus is his ult is on such a long CD and the range is not as long as you want it to be. Plus it's a skillshot, so if you miss you're fucked. If you want to do a poke/siege with Varus then you have to get some sort of mana regen on him too, as Q harass eats up his mana pool so fast. Maybe just grab a tear early or give him blue buff? You'd basically need to go Shiv > IE on him anyway to get the siege to be effective too, and that's a fair chunk of change to get by the 20-25 minute mark.
I thought there was a Korean (or Genja?) build for Varus that basically was Tear/Muramana + Runaan's + IE + Shiv and you just go pure Legolas and shoot 11ty billion arrows until the enemy dies.
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Because players are not coaches..
Monte is not coaching them on the ban & pick phase? Or at least he is failing in it so hard that they refuse to listen to him? I would kinda think that making the bp phase work should be one of your highest priorities...
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Wait we have a gahlo impersonator. dafuq.
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On August 28 2014 15:23 Kinie wrote:
The issue with Varus is his ult is on such a long CD and the range is not as long as you want it to be. Plus it's a skillshot, so if you miss you're fucked. If you want to do a poke/siege with Varus then you have to get some sort of mana regen on him too, as Q harass eats up his mana pool so fast. Maybe just grab a tear early or give him blue buff? You'd basically need to go Shiv > IE on him anyway to get the siege to be effective too, and that's a fair chunk of change to get by the 20-25 minute mark.
I thought there was a Korean (or Genja?) build for Varus that basically was Tear/Muramana + Runaan's + IE + Shiv and you just go pure Legolas and shoot 11ty billion arrows until the enemy dies.
The thing about his ult is that only the first part is a skillshot so you can happily dump it on their tank and have it spread to the rest of their team. The main thing is that no other AD has AOE engage. And Varus has that and siege. The two things your comp is looking for.
Varus's siege is not about shooting lots arrows though. I mean being able to is nice but it's not required. So long as you buy blue pots every back you will be fine.
So your wave is coming to the turret and you want to take it. Similar to how ziggs zones by dropping his slow field which limit the enemies movement near the turret Varus zones by placing his hail of arrows(e) about halfway between the turret and wall as far back as possible(or on one side of the inhib turret). The range on e is 925 to the center so it's not particularly hard to get it there safely(Ziggs has 900 range to the center of his e and his zone is reduced by minions). This removes the entire front and side area without eating a slow (which means an easy q or r) which lets you push the turret. The only other path to your team is the small gap which is also an easy engage. The zone potential of his slow field lets you push turrets without using q or using it less frequently.
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anyone here played gnar? is he fun? Comparable to anyone else?
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Gnar is reasonably fun, he didn't blow me away though.
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holy shit vasili just did the manliest tower dive I've ever seen. lvl2, wins a big trade against fabby and his support morg, both getting away with a sliver of health. has no way to reach them or push wave fast enough to their tower, so after thinking about it for a moment he just flashes in and doublekills them, catching them completely off guard. he gives a kill to morg but he comes into lane at lvl2 with a pickaxe.
wtf
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On August 28 2014 17:23 sob3k wrote:
anyone here played gnar? is he fun? Comparable to anyone else?
pretty fun, a little frustrating how reliant on calls he is.he's the ultimate, play him with skype champion. because you often cannot control precisely when you are pretty obligated to go ham and have your team follow you or die.
in solo queue i'd imagine you'd have to master 3 different styles of going in: about to be mega, just turned mega, and about to be mini (where you would probably look to flash in and ulti + wollop and hop out and kite). but he's a fun little guy to play even if the logistics of using him are pretty annoying.
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On August 28 2014 14:07 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2014 13:49 MindBreaker wrote:
hey if ur gonna lose a game does anyoen else here just start trollign any mad people on ur team
for fun?
Last game I played our Lucian gives up first blood. It's more or less my fault because I, Janna, ate a blitz hook(I got hooked a lot that lane phase) but we almost turned it and he got outplayed and their jungle showed up. (All)Lucian: GG WP. It's 3 minutes into the game. The teams are Lucian, Janna, Xerath, Warwick, and Renekton versus Cait, Blitz, Diana, Jarvan, and Nidalee. We tell him to hold on because cait doesn't scale and because we have a much better teamfight. We both die do a Nid teleport bot at 12:30 and they take our tower and we think they take dragon(they actually didn't despite having it pinked). But eventually they have to siege after taking some towers and a dragon off picks because Rene is strong enough to stop Nids split push. But they cannot because Xerath clears waves like woah and I can prevent poke tower damage with my shield. All this time Lucian is complaining about how were going to lose and how we should surrender at 20. 20 minutes comes around and he starts a surrender vote which fails 1 to 4. About 1 minute later we get a good rolling engage and snowball the game super hard with smart vision and good talismans. Xerath ends up 13/1/who cares and Warwick ends up 12/3/14 in a 28 kill game that ends when we take their nexus at 35 minutes. If he trolled us or he quit we probably would not have won. He was super negative and that didn't help but he wasn't actively trolling either. So no you should not troll your teammates in games you're going to lose. You're going to lose games in which you troll your teammates though.
I think you misunderstood him...
He's not talking about games where you die once in 3 minutes so you troll your team mates.
He's talking about games where you're 20 kills down, have no towers or drag, and get out scaled anyway all by 15 mins.
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Are you kidding me? If GD really restores your faith in LoL players then you really don't need much do you? xD
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On August 28 2014 15:23 Kinie wrote:
The issue with Varus is his ult is on such a long CD and the range is not as long as you want it to be. Plus it's a skillshot, so if you miss you're fucked. If you want to do a poke/siege with Varus then you have to get some sort of mana regen on him too, as Q harass eats up his mana pool so fast. Maybe just grab a tear early or give him blue buff? You'd basically need to go Shiv > IE on him anyway to get the siege to be effective too, and that's a fair chunk of change to get by the 20-25 minute mark.
I thought there was a Korean (or Genja?) build for Varus that basically was Tear/Muramana + Runaan's + IE + Shiv and you just go pure Legolas and shoot 11ty billion arrows until the enemy dies.
Prob a Genja build. You invest so much in AS you don't have that much AD for sieging, and then in fights where your AS may be put to better use you've got 0 defensive items on an immobile carry.
As for Vi she's mostly there for catches, reliable initiation ('cept vs spellshields) and burst. She didn't work at all against stuff like Ziggs whose range is just too long, 1-3 pos Lulu because of how good she is versus burst, and generally Ziggs/Thresh/Braum/Nami who will split her team in two and get her killed if it doesn't immediately follow her. And Maokai works especially well against frontloaded burst damage.
She's not good lategame when she can't shove people out of the fight by herself (especially with the long-ranged Kog/Trist being prominent, thus hard to catch/engage on), and unless you can hard initiate (cf. Thresh/Braum/Nami/etc.) she's not good at sieges either because she's always in melee range with no disengage options (try to charge Q to dash away, get cc'd, die in the next 4.5s necessary for you to do it again).
With good warding and rotations in the midgame to force people to move through the jungle and create catches she can still snowball pretty well and help you create the conditions to break base (eg. get a 5v4/5v3 at the inhib tower), but she's not the only one to do that and others aren't as bad when behind.
(Obligatory reminder that they aren't as bugged as her either. Despite said bugs being displayed twice in LCS, Riot still doesn't acknowledge them.)
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On August 28 2014 17:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Are you kidding me? If GD really restores your faith in LoL players then you really don't need much do you? xD
If that can reassure you, I wasn't thinking about you <3
More seriously, yeah. There are some quality posters here, and I enjoy reading what they write !
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i have always disliked laning against tristana because her e harass always seems to destroy me but i can never reproduce it when i try
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On August 28 2014 16:25 Gaslo wrote:Monte is not coaching them on the ban & pick phase? Or at least he is failing in it so hard that they refuse to listen to him? I would kinda think that making the bp phase work should be one of your highest priorities...
It's kinda known players fucking blow at listening to coaches. Especially if they don't have him right before the match reviewing stuff over.
Tbh I didn't think the team comp in game 1 was as atrocious as monte made it out to be, mostly execution error imo.
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After having watched 2 seasons of Monte ogn casting, watching him break down clg and curse game on summoning insight, its clear he knows what the fuck he is talking about.
Why doesn't clg listen to him? Hes proven he knows his shit. Does clg really need someone to stand in their face and yell at them to do what they say?
Regi's tweet has distracted people towards monte, when it should be on the players.
Link choking again. Doubles habitual trust issues (needs to solo carry 1v9). Seraph still being sacrificed. Aphro elo hell. Dexter too stubborn in his own way of taking the game and not sourcing info about rest of map.
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Ehhh i think that you can't say monte for sure knows what he's talking about from his casting. he deals in mostly hindsight analysis and john maddening what teams should be doing. nothing difficult.
"See, SKT1's problem is that they tried to bring pressure onto the bottom lane to gain a dragon advantage, but Samsung just ganked impact's ryze and now he's so far behind they won't be able to win any of these fights for a long time, and he can't even 1v1."
"KT needs to stop getting caught out for nothing if they want to have any chance in this game"
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On August 28 2014 19:48 PrinceXizor wrote:
Ehhh i think that you can't say monte for sure knows what he's talking about from his casting. he deals in mostly hindsight analysis and john maddening what teams should be doing. nothing difficult.
"See, SKT1's problem is that they tried to bring pressure onto the bottom lane to gain a dragon advantage, but Samsung just ganked impact's ryze and now he's so far behind they won't be able to win any of these fights for a long time, and he can't even 1v1."
"KT needs to stop getting caught out for nothing if they want to have any chance in this game"
Yeah pretty much.Wouldn't really talk much about his coaching since clg being a mid tier team seems reasonable to me if you look at their lineup.
Also on the pick thing varus/ashe wouldn't have worked at all in the clg comp game 1.They didn't need more cc.They needed better positioning and link to hit his skillshots.Jinx couldve been a good pick instead of tw but both were fine.
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EPT
