EPTHe's slow as heck, he doesn't have a gap closer, his builds aren't necessarily straight-forward or piece-mealed, his ganks require more experience of routes and timing than most (sure he doesn't have a skillshot, but he doesn't have a gapcloser or an escape either), and he's more positioning dependant than a bunch of champions because of the uptime on W and the incompatibility between Q and W (on top of the lack of dashes). I wouldn't call him "great for non-confident junglers" at all.
[Patch 4.13] Sona Update General Discussion - Page 51
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
He's slow as heck, he doesn't have a gap closer, his builds aren't necessarily straight-forward or piece-mealed, his ganks require more experience of routes and timing than most (sure he doesn't have a skillshot, but he doesn't have a gapcloser or an escape either), and he's more positioning dependant than a bunch of champions because of the uptime on W and the incompatibility between Q and W (on top of the lack of dashes). I wouldn't call him "great for non-confident junglers" at all. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
1) People don't change their warding locations despite it being a Rammus. 2) Doesn't get set as far behind as say Shaco if dying early, most of his power comes from his kit. 3) People underestimate his AoE damage from ultimate in teamfights, more than full channel/duration Nunu/Viktor for crying out loud. 4) Doesn't need fancy and hard plays to be a terror for laners. 5) Forces enemy jungler into a much more reactionary play. Same reasons IMO is why he's not picked in competetive, the "counter" to Rammus is to change your gameplay; sort of like Eve, but Rammus is so rare the majority in YoloQ aren't used to do it | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On August 09 2014 00:23 PrinceXizor wrote: hell of a lot more fun for laning too. nowadays junglers all try to carry the team. end up causing more problems than they solve. pretty much without perfect execution the jungler can hinder the lanes now. even see it in LCS in some matches. its pretty silly that they are forced to try to do that or just become useless. Hehehe. | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
On August 09 2014 02:01 VayneAuthority wrote: if you need a starting point with rammus....the 2 paths behind mid lane that are close to their tower are pretty much 24/7 rammus ganks. if your mid laner is morde or something dont pick rammus, he thrives on camping mid Yea rammus is probably the 2nd most disgusting jungler to face as midlaner(after shaco). It is just so fucking annoying to get ganked by him every 10-20 seconds even if it doesnt succeed. With rammus you can just keep trying ganks, 1 will succeed sooner or later(as long as your laner has killing power) | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 09 2014 01:01 Alaric wrote: How is Rammus amazing at peeling and sieging? He's got a single target low range cc that won't let him hit anything but a melee diver if he himself stays back, as for sieging unless he has Flash he's just going to eat poke trying to reach people. Plus how "I'm good if we're sieged!" a good trait? It usually means you're behind. He has long duration single target CC on a short CD is why he is good at peeling. He also has a micro stun. His ability to hold towers due to the taunt threat is also very powerful, since it means that the primary tower damage champions can't risk coming under the tower without their tanks deliberately taking agro first. Even if the support has a On August 09 2014 01:39 Jek wrote: From my experience Rammus is an amazing yoloQ jungler because 1) People don't change their warding locations despite it being a Rammus. Even if they do, its not like its going to stop a mobo boot Rammus lane gank. His bot lane ganks are basically the worst, the only jungler stronger than him in terms of that is potentially Eve because the AD never buys a pink and junglers never deep ward. On August 08 2014 14:18 iCanada wrote: If they buffed Viktor Q slighty, I think Viktor would be a top tier pick. He is a strong champion with a fun playstyle, but his Q is really lackluster. It doesn't do big damage comparative to any other point and click nuke and it has a long relative cool down because it is supposed to be a huge lane bully spell because of the Shield... but it just lacks too much speed and range. Kass gets literally the identical Q, but he gets 50 more range, more damage (and scaling), it moves faster, has a "minisilence" attached and the shield is bigger... Playing Viktor against Kassadin is literally the worst thing ever. You're like "i'm a lane bully!" and you walk up and kassadin hits you with his spell before your's returns, shields all the damage from your spell and trololol walks out of your auto range to do it again when his Q is back up faster than yours. I don't think i have ever lost a lane so hard But really i think that Viktor's biggest problem isn't his Q. Its the behavior of his laser which causes even experienced or high quality Viktor's to stutterstep/run into enemy teams instead of casting the intended max range fadeaway lasers. Fortunately SolCrushed is looking into laser behavior in his tweaks | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:17 yamato77 wrote: Jarvan's kit screams dive and AOE synergy. If you are in your own backline, something has gone terribly wrong. His Q's armor shred and his ults ability to stop champions who have used their dashes can really be great peel/damage boost for your AD which can make a straight up fight, one where each team is going through the others tank first go in your favor really well. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:14 Goumindong wrote: He has long duration single target CC on a short CD is why he is good at peeling. He also has a micro stun. His ability to hold towers due to the taunt threat is also very powerful, since it means that the primary tower damage champions can't risk coming under the tower without their tanks deliberately taking agro first. Even if the support has a Even if they do, its not like its going to stop a mobo boot Rammus lane gank. His bot lane ganks are basically the worst, the only jungler stronger than him in terms of that is potentially Eve because the AD never buys a pink and junglers never deep ward. Playing Viktor against Kassadin is literally the worst thing ever. You're like "i'm a lane bully!" and you walk up and kassadin hits you with his spell before your's returns, shields all the damage from your spell and trololol walks out of your auto range to do it again when his Q is back up faster than yours. I don't think i have ever lost a lane so hard But really i think that Viktor's biggest problem isn't his Q. Its the behavior of his laser which causes even experienced or high quality Viktor's to stutterstep/run into enemy teams instead of casting the intended max range fadeaway lasers. Fortunately SolCrushed is looking into laser behavior in his tweaks Honestly, I think his laser behaviour is fine. Just have to know you ranges. I smart cast it and have no problems microing it. Compared to managing three control groups of Dragoons it's very very easy. Although I suppose I can see how people have issues with it. I dunno, I think it should be hard anyway, otherwise Viktor becomes boring and "too strong" and suddenly he gets gutted somewhere else. | ||
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zer0das
United States8519 Posts
On August 09 2014 03:14 Goumindong wrote:He has long duration single target CC on a short CD is why he is good at peeling. He also has a micro stun. 12 seconds is a short cooldown? As Rammus would say, okay. Every time I run into a Rammus in solo que it's like my team pretends he doesn't exist and split pushes with no vision in places it would be a bad idea against a normal jungler, let alone Rammus. And then he racks up like 10 kills off of that and is impossible to kill. And they keep doing it while yelling at you because that will somehow make split pushing better or something. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
One of the things about Rammus is you don't really notice him doing damage. His R and W reflect are super passive, and you don't really notice the auto attacks until you're dead and realize he did 2K dmg to you. | ||
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
On August 09 2014 05:09 ticklishmusic wrote: 12*.6 = 7.2, taunt is for 2.25 so that works out to be a 33% uptime which honestly isn't awful. One of the things about Rammus is you don't really notice him doing damage. His R and W reflect are super passive, and you don't really notice the auto attacks until you're dead and realize he did 2K dmg to you. Only Carry players really understand how much damage rammus W+R do. Especially adc lol | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Also there are a few champions like morgana/alistar who can make him completely irrelevant. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On August 09 2014 04:52 zer0das wrote: 12 seconds is a short cooldown? As Rammus would say, okay. Every time I run into a Rammus in solo que it's like my team pretends he doesn't exist and split pushes with no vision in places it would be a bad idea against a normal jungler, let alone Rammus. And then he racks up like 10 kills off of that and is impossible to kill. And they keep doing it while yelling at you because that will somehow make split pushing better or something. Me too, and then the rammus team always magically actually uses and pays attention to ward's. Lol. Makes me look like an awful jungler every time QQ. Even when you out cs him by three times, by that point the team super salty with you. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
Also, at the risk of starting an undesirable discussion, can Teut or VA get at least dia3 please? This makes all the Nasus discussion taste of anticlimax. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On August 09 2014 06:12 Scip wrote: Someone earlier mentioned that Rammus has an insanely high winrate, but I'm almost positive that that comes from top lane Rammus rather than jungle Rammus. As Nafta mentioned, him being soo bad at farming+Michael's Crucible making him sad sucks. Also, at the risk of starting an undesirable discussion, can Teut or VA get at least dia3 please? This makes all the Nasus discussion taste of anticlimax. I think Rammus has had the winrate since before top Rammus was a thing. It still kind of isn't. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Also, he benefitted a lot from the new SotAG. Pick that up and then get an IBG and you're an absolute midgame monster esp. if you've neutered their magic damage. Your ult is like Fid/ Karthus, except you're so tanky the enemy team cant actually afford to focus you. Saying that Morg + Ali counter him is kind of dumb because with that logic Morg + Ali counter pretty much everyone | ||
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