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United States37500 Posts
On June 11 2014 10:22 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:18 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 11 2014 10:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
despite fnatic getting dumpster'd hard every week there team still magically puts up respectable points its weird. they never really get stomped and their games are always dragged out win or lose. probably the strongest fantasy team that is weak in actual play I think you're just coming to reality with how Fantasy LCS is scored. Dragging out games is the best for fantasy owners. That's why Woolite is a god pick in fantasy. He goes balls deep for kills, is on a trash team, but most EU teams (read: not Alliance/SK) take forever to close out their match against CW. In fact, I was regretting a little bit (ok, not really) how heavily invested I am in SK. They curbstomped Millenium last week and I got far less points than I could have if the game had go on 45+ min like a normal EU game. I disagree. Last season the highest scoring players were all on top teams. These are the top 20 by PPG in the spring split: TSM Bjergsen TSM WildTurtle C9 Sneaky C9 Meteos TSM Reginald C9 Hai DIG goldenglue CLG Doublelift C9 Balls TSM TheOddOne FNC Rekkles FNC xPeke A Froggen TSM Dyrus DIG Imaqtpie SK CandyPanda TSM Xpecial CLG dexter C9 LemonNation A Tabzz CRS Cop CLG Link Players on bad teams have high-scoring weeks where they are against other bad teams, but typically do very poorly against good teams that close out the game quickly. I think it is too difficult to draft for game length, and you are better off drafting for team quality instead.
I definitely agree and this was one of my approaches to Fantasy LCS. My feeling of being too invested in SK is just me being overcautious. Realistically, I think SK will continue to perform well and rake me in points.
The issue comes with outliers like Woolite. The guy has three straight weeks as the highest scoring ADC in both regions but his team is fucking 2-6. How do you explain something like this and anticipate it in the future?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 11 2014 10:28 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:22 GrandInquisitor wrote:On June 11 2014 10:18 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 11 2014 10:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
despite fnatic getting dumpster'd hard every week there team still magically puts up respectable points its weird. they never really get stomped and their games are always dragged out win or lose. probably the strongest fantasy team that is weak in actual play I think you're just coming to reality with how Fantasy LCS is scored. Dragging out games is the best for fantasy owners. That's why Woolite is a god pick in fantasy. He goes balls deep for kills, is on a trash team, but most EU teams (read: not Alliance/SK) take forever to close out their match against CW. In fact, I was regretting a little bit (ok, not really) how heavily invested I am in SK. They curbstomped Millenium last week and I got far less points than I could have if the game had go on 45+ min like a normal EU game. I disagree. Last season the highest scoring players were all on top teams. These are the top 20 by PPG in the spring split: TSM Bjergsen TSM WildTurtle C9 Sneaky C9 Meteos TSM Reginald C9 Hai DIG goldenglue CLG Doublelift C9 Balls TSM TheOddOne FNC Rekkles FNC xPeke A Froggen TSM Dyrus DIG Imaqtpie SK CandyPanda TSM Xpecial CLG dexter C9 LemonNation A Tabzz CRS Cop CLG Link Players on bad teams have high-scoring weeks where they are against other bad teams, but typically do very poorly against good teams that close out the game quickly. I think it is too difficult to draft for game length, and you are better off drafting for team quality instead. I definitely agree and this was one of my approaches to Fantasy LCS. My feeling of being too invested in SK is just me being overcautious. Realistically, I think SK will continue to perform well and rake me in points. The issue comes with outliers like Woolite. The guy has three straight weeks as the highest scoring ADC in both regions but his team is fucking 2-6. How do you explain something like this and anticipate it in the future?
You pretty much can expect CW's ad to shine because he's getting everything, if it's Rekkles, Forg1ven or Woolite right now.
When CW aren't playing top dogs like [A] or SK, you just go all-in on Wolves and win your week convincingly.
God bless Riot, Doublelift is expected to get 42 points this week against coL and EG. If he gets even 25, i will cheer hard.
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On June 11 2014 18:39 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:28 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 11 2014 10:22 GrandInquisitor wrote:On June 11 2014 10:18 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 11 2014 10:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
despite fnatic getting dumpster'd hard every week there team still magically puts up respectable points its weird. they never really get stomped and their games are always dragged out win or lose. probably the strongest fantasy team that is weak in actual play I think you're just coming to reality with how Fantasy LCS is scored. Dragging out games is the best for fantasy owners. That's why Woolite is a god pick in fantasy. He goes balls deep for kills, is on a trash team, but most EU teams (read: not Alliance/SK) take forever to close out their match against CW. In fact, I was regretting a little bit (ok, not really) how heavily invested I am in SK. They curbstomped Millenium last week and I got far less points than I could have if the game had go on 45+ min like a normal EU game. I disagree. Last season the highest scoring players were all on top teams. These are the top 20 by PPG in the spring split: TSM Bjergsen TSM WildTurtle C9 Sneaky C9 Meteos TSM Reginald C9 Hai DIG goldenglue CLG Doublelift C9 Balls TSM TheOddOne FNC Rekkles FNC xPeke A Froggen TSM Dyrus DIG Imaqtpie SK CandyPanda TSM Xpecial CLG dexter C9 LemonNation A Tabzz CRS Cop CLG Link Players on bad teams have high-scoring weeks where they are against other bad teams, but typically do very poorly against good teams that close out the game quickly. I think it is too difficult to draft for game length, and you are better off drafting for team quality instead. I definitely agree and this was one of my approaches to Fantasy LCS. My feeling of being too invested in SK is just me being overcautious. Realistically, I think SK will continue to perform well and rake me in points. The issue comes with outliers like Woolite. The guy has three straight weeks as the highest scoring ADC in both regions but his team is fucking 2-6. How do you explain something like this and anticipate it in the future? You pretty much can expect CW's ad to shine because he's getting everything, if it's Rekkles, Forg1ven or Woolite right now. When CW aren't playing top dogs like [A] or SK, you just go all-in on Wolves and win your week convincingly. God bless Riot, Doublelift is expected to get 42 points this week against coL and EG. If he gets even 25, i will cheer hard.
2 games of a 0 kill monte-certified push comp incoming
PS pls not really i start seraph this week again
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United States23745 Posts
On June 11 2014 10:28 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2014 10:22 GrandInquisitor wrote:On June 11 2014 10:18 NeoIllusions wrote:On June 11 2014 10:07 VayneAuthority wrote:
despite fnatic getting dumpster'd hard every week there team still magically puts up respectable points its weird. they never really get stomped and their games are always dragged out win or lose. probably the strongest fantasy team that is weak in actual play I think you're just coming to reality with how Fantasy LCS is scored. Dragging out games is the best for fantasy owners. That's why Woolite is a god pick in fantasy. He goes balls deep for kills, is on a trash team, but most EU teams (read: not Alliance/SK) take forever to close out their match against CW. In fact, I was regretting a little bit (ok, not really) how heavily invested I am in SK. They curbstomped Millenium last week and I got far less points than I could have if the game had go on 45+ min like a normal EU game. I disagree. Last season the highest scoring players were all on top teams. These are the top 20 by PPG in the spring split: TSM Bjergsen TSM WildTurtle C9 Sneaky C9 Meteos TSM Reginald C9 Hai DIG goldenglue CLG Doublelift C9 Balls TSM TheOddOne FNC Rekkles FNC xPeke A Froggen TSM Dyrus DIG Imaqtpie SK CandyPanda TSM Xpecial CLG dexter C9 LemonNation A Tabzz CRS Cop CLG Link Players on bad teams have high-scoring weeks where they are against other bad teams, but typically do very poorly against good teams that close out the game quickly. I think it is too difficult to draft for game length, and you are better off drafting for team quality instead. I definitely agree and this was one of my approaches to Fantasy LCS. My feeling of being too invested in SK is just me being overcautious. Realistically, I think SK will continue to perform well and rake me in points. The issue comes with outliers like Woolite. The guy has three straight weeks as the highest scoring ADC in both regions but his team is fucking 2-6. How do you explain something like this and anticipate it in the future?
There's plenty of outliers in traditional fantasy sports. There's nothing inherently wrong with a player on a bad team scoring a lot of points. Sometimes people get lucky and they draft someone who they think is going to be shit and then end up being godlike for fantasy. Sometimes there are just things you can't anticipate for, just part of what makes fantasy exciting. If everyone knew with 100% certainty who was going to be the best performers the drafting process wouldn't be very much fun.
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United States37500 Posts
wtf, I never said anything about it being wrong. I'm asking how to identify such outliers before hand in case of future fantasy seasons. Nothing is ever 100% certain but that doesn't mean you should give up on having a sound approach.
Case in point, I thought mid and top was going to be the biggest impact and I drafted Dyrus and Meteos. Dyrus has been shit this entire split and Meteos is only doing ok. Luckily I have Tabzz and Jesiz and they've performed as well as can be expected. I'm still enjoying Fantasy LCS despite my initial approach to summer split being completely wrong.
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so when is helios gonna be available, next week? hm
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 12 2014 05:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
wtf, I never said anything about it being wrong. I'm asking how to identify such outliers before hand in case of future fantasy seasons. Nothing is ever 100% certain but that doesn't mean you should give up on having a sound approach.
Case in point, I thought mid and top was going to be the biggest impact and I drafted Dyrus and Meteos. Dyrus has been shit this entire split and Meteos is only doing ok. Luckily I have Tabzz and Jesiz and they've performed as well as can be expected. I'm still enjoying Fantasy LCS despite my initial approach to summer split being completely wrong.
Well, first you have to identify those teams who can put up a long game with sick scores, basically it's every team but Alliance right now.
Then you pick anyone there, but in Wolves's case, you only pick ad because Wolves's marksmen always get shittons of kills in such games.
It's same to soccer fantasies when you pick striker from some mid-tier team, knowing that he scored 80% of their goals last season.
On June 12 2014 05:49 VayneAuthority wrote:
so when is helios gonna be available, next week? hm
I don't think it's really target to purchase :D
Only for stealing from opponents.
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United States23745 Posts
On June 12 2014 05:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
wtf, I never said anything about it being wrong. I'm asking how to identify such outliers before hand in case of future fantasy seasons. Nothing is ever 100% certain but that doesn't mean you should give up on having a sound approach.
Case in point, I thought mid and top was going to be the biggest impact and I drafted Dyrus and Meteos. Dyrus has been shit this entire split and Meteos is only doing ok. Luckily I have Tabzz and Jesiz and they've performed as well as can be expected. I'm still enjoying Fantasy LCS despite my initial approach to summer split being completely wrong.
Just misunderstood that you were saying. Thought it sounded like more of an indictment of the system rather than just asking for advice
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United States37500 Posts
On June 12 2014 06:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 05:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
wtf, I never said anything about it being wrong. I'm asking how to identify such outliers before hand in case of future fantasy seasons. Nothing is ever 100% certain but that doesn't mean you should give up on having a sound approach.
Case in point, I thought mid and top was going to be the biggest impact and I drafted Dyrus and Meteos. Dyrus has been shit this entire split and Meteos is only doing ok. Luckily I have Tabzz and Jesiz and they've performed as well as can be expected. I'm still enjoying Fantasy LCS despite my initial approach to summer split being completely wrong. Well, first you have to identify those teams who can put up a long game with sick scores, basically it's every team but Alliance right now. Then you pick anyone there, but in Wolves's case, you only pick ad because Wolves's marksmen always get shittons of kills in such games. It's same to soccer fantasies when you pick striker from some mid-tier team, knowing that he scored 80% of their goals last season. Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 05:49 VayneAuthority wrote:
so when is helios gonna be available, next week? hm I don't think it's really target to purchase :D Only for stealing from opponents.
In the case of CW, pre-split, I'd probably be more inclined to pick CowTard than Woolite though. More LCS experience, mid lane often gets as many kills as ADC, etc.
I guess Woolite was just a surprise pick and those who landed him got lucky.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On June 12 2014 07:30 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 06:01 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:On June 12 2014 05:45 NeoIllusions wrote:
wtf, I never said anything about it being wrong. I'm asking how to identify such outliers before hand in case of future fantasy seasons. Nothing is ever 100% certain but that doesn't mean you should give up on having a sound approach.
Case in point, I thought mid and top was going to be the biggest impact and I drafted Dyrus and Meteos. Dyrus has been shit this entire split and Meteos is only doing ok. Luckily I have Tabzz and Jesiz and they've performed as well as can be expected. I'm still enjoying Fantasy LCS despite my initial approach to summer split being completely wrong. Well, first you have to identify those teams who can put up a long game with sick scores, basically it's every team but Alliance right now. Then you pick anyone there, but in Wolves's case, you only pick ad because Wolves's marksmen always get shittons of kills in such games. It's same to soccer fantasies when you pick striker from some mid-tier team, knowing that he scored 80% of their goals last season. On June 12 2014 05:49 VayneAuthority wrote:
so when is helios gonna be available, next week? hm I don't think it's really target to purchase :D Only for stealing from opponents. In the case of CW, pre-split, I'd probably be more inclined to pick CowTard than Woolite though. More LCS experience, mid lane often gets as many kills as ADC, etc. I guess Woolite was just a surprise pick and those who landed him got lucky.
cowTard sucks, you never land a midlaner who can't carry. It's like putting Voyboy and praying that he's going to play Lulu and get a quadra kill but it happens once in a blue moon. It can work in 2-games weeks but in Superweeks with 4 games you basically expect everyone of your players to go close to 70 points AT LEAST and it still might not be enough to win.
CW were always team of one threat, back into 2013 it was Bjergsen, then they just switched gears after remaking team in Challenger and it was basically Rekkles show with Shook even playing Nunu sometimes, in Spring it was Forgiven show - wait 40-45 minutes, give everything to him, he will carry, now it's Woolite's show because Youngbuck never draws pressure and cowTard is just simply not-LCS level. They even pick freaking Yorick now, just to help Woolite in carrying.
Also, he plays basically only hypercarries, so you could expect him to put numbers even in his stint in Denial.
+ CW is probably one and only team which hadn't changed playstyle at all.
Even though, i wish that LCS points system will be remade a bit in future, at least, lose 1 point per death and not 0,5 because one assist worth 3 deaths right now, it's not very legit imo.
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United States37500 Posts
I guess it came down to my unfamiliarity with the EU Challenger scene but a lot of what you mentioned makes a lot of sense. I didn't expect Woolite to be the type to carry, even as an ADC but that is pretty much exactly how it played out.
If you (a general 'you' to the thread) have any suggestion on how to improve Fantasy LCS, let me know. I can pass it along to Riot and hopefully adjustments can be made in S5 for the better.
So like if you think the scoring system is bad, what would you do instead? I'm an obv fantasy noob here.
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Allow access to projected points for the week after the games start. Currently once those start you're screwed. Heavier penalties for deaths.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
Dunno, imo if we're ok with same scoring to every position, then i probably just made sure that deaths won't be so forgivable. I understand that people can say that Gleeb achieved impossible thing and finished week with -0.26, but c'mon, you can't go 0-8-2 in 2 games and still have -0.26.
Redox might come here and argue that ESL fantasy is sick, but i'm not very familiar with it and it has different scoring systems for every position afaik. Loldraft had different scorings for carries/junglers/supports but it was basically based on KDA multiplier and i will get Riot's system over LolDraft's one in 99 of 100 cases.
Still, if Riot implemented something like -1 for death and not 0,5 and instead of it, let's say, made bonuses for double kills + slightly tweaked numbers on other bonuses, i guess, it could be better but i see why they have little numbers for deaths, supports might stuck in sad position in games where their team ain't stomping.
And i wish that executes won't be counted as deaths x)
On June 12 2014 07:59 Gahlo wrote:
Allow access to projected points for the week after the games start. Currently once those start you're screwed. Heavier penalties for deaths.
What do you mean by allowing access?
It's estimated points, they mean pretty nothing anyway. It's not that hard to tweak numbers a bit by yourself, you know what can those teams and players do and how will game go, it's just difference in champion selection.
Because you never know, will Ziggs go through or not, for example and player with Ziggs usually dominates the fantasy.
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On June 12 2014 07:52 NeoIllusions wrote:
I guess it came down to my unfamiliarity with the EU Challenger scene but a lot of what you mentioned makes a lot of sense. I didn't expect Woolite to be the type to carry, even as an ADC but that is pretty much exactly how it played out.
If you (a general 'you' to the thread) have any suggestion on how to improve Fantasy LCS, let me know. I can pass it along to Riot and hopefully adjustments can be made in S5 for the better.
So like if you think the scoring system is bad, what would you do instead? I'm an obv fantasy noob here.
Just take a look at ESL Fantasy scoring system.
http://fantasy.eslgaming.com/leagues/3/rules
Different positions get rewarded differently, which results in all positions getting roughly equal points overall and are thus equally important. Also getting killed gets penalized more, so a player does not get rewarded if he plays stupid agressive and dies 3 times for every kill he makes. The extra points for GPM they have are unneccessary though and should be omitted.
It is not perfect but surely better than the Riot one.
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United States23745 Posts
Only if you like the different scoring positions. The idea of a support scoring the same amount of points as a Mid laner does not appeal to me at all. Makes drafting a lot less interesting. Oh, all the good Mid laners are gone? Good thing Junglers score the same amount of points!
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I tihnk this game alone has won me this week's draft guys
whatsup
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On June 13 2014 02:03 Scip wrote:
I tihnk this game alone has won me this week's draft guys
whatsup
I wouldn't be surprised, at this point.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Except that I have 2 players from SK too
god damn
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United States23745 Posts
My fall to the bottom is coming fast.
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On June 13 2014 02:06 Scip wrote:
Except that I have 2 players from SK too
god damn
Doesn't matter, death penalty largely doesn't exist.
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EPT
