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On May 13 2014 11:23 Swords wrote:Damn, and he doesn't have the excuse of "I was young and naive!" he constantly brings up with the cheating issue for this one. Good luck SHC dealing with this headcase.
Meh I donno. I'll actually give him the benefit of the doubt. He was probably younger back then and did some shady stuff. He might be trying to brushing up his act.
Again, I do not know for sure. But let's see if SHC will improve under his leadership.
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Hey TL LoL, I have a question for yall.
Does anyone know who the concept artist who drew this Splash is?
+ Show Spoiler +
Did IronStylus do it, or was it another artist?
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On May 13 2014 11:34 layabout wrote:
Alistar isn't really played but you cant really push him out of lane and he is dangerous as hell with flash up, plus his teamfight is really nice. He does everything he used to and he also has a surprisingly good win rate in longer games. I thought he would do well at the start of s4 with relic shield, dorans shield and the changes to the defense tree. Sadly, tarics numbers being broken and leona hype train left him sitting in the corner unloved and forgotten. He just doesn't fit the fight initiator role as well as other champs and that what people seem to be looking for now. Fiddle support was hurt by the changes to fear and you can kill him pretty easily in lane, i feel like you are relying on the others letting dark wind poke bounce a lot or getting a lucky ult to be successful.
Its not really about Alistar or Fiddle, specifically. Its basically about Thresh's (and possibly Braum's) hyper-utility + Leona's hyper engage seemingly causing the rest of the support cast to be counterpicks, or tier 2 picks.
At least from my POV, its probably healthier for the role as a whole for Thresh and Leona to fill Niches (Pick+Antipick and Engage respectively) instead of being staples, Morgana, Annie, and Karma represent niches that they fill fairly well, Morgana perhaps slightly too well.
But I generally doubt that it is healthy for all-in supports like Thresh and Leona (Blitz, and Lee, Jarvan, other nonmeta picks) to be generally strong, as opposed to situationally strong, when compared to the more controlled supports like Janna, Nami, Lulu (Ori, Lux as fringe picks comes to mind). But I could be wrong.
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Canada11044 Posts
How is Nami being killed off...? She's one of the strongest supports right now.
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On May 13 2014 12:06 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 11:34 layabout wrote:
Alistar isn't really played but you cant really push him out of lane and he is dangerous as hell with flash up, plus his teamfight is really nice. He does everything he used to and he also has a surprisingly good win rate in longer games. I thought he would do well at the start of s4 with relic shield, dorans shield and the changes to the defense tree. Sadly, tarics numbers being broken and leona hype train left him sitting in the corner unloved and forgotten. He just doesn't fit the fight initiator role as well as other champs and that what people seem to be looking for now. Fiddle support was hurt by the changes to fear and you can kill him pretty easily in lane, i feel like you are relying on the others letting dark wind poke bounce a lot or getting a lucky ult to be successful. Its not really about Alistar or Fiddle, specifically. Its basically about Thresh's (and possibly Braum's) hyper-utility + Leona's hyper engage seemingly causing the rest of the support cast to be counterpicks, or tier 2 picks. At least from my POV, its probably healthier for the role as a whole for Thresh and Leona to fill Niches (Pick+Antipick and Engage respectively) instead of being staples, Morgana, Annie, and Karma represent niches that they fill fairly well, Morgana perhaps slightly too well. *But I generally doubt that it is healthy for all-in supports like Thresh and Leona (Blitz, and Lee, Jarvan, other nonmeta picks) to be generally strong, as opposed to situationally strong, when compared to the more controlled supports like Janna, Nami, Lulu (Ori, Lux as fringe picks comes to mind). But I could be wrong.
*with regards to this is mostly down to the preemptive nerfs/changes to the ap supports at the start of the season combined with the way that janna nami and lulu tend to build things like mikaels shurelyas and locket** with the extra gold and don't reach the levels of ap that riot anticipated for the added utility to have a large impact. Meanwhile all in supports have an easier time in lane now and get to build more health and resistances than they were able to before. They are scaling better whilst more traditional supports arent. This is partly why morg seems so good because she really just needs zhonyas to excel in teamfights which she can get now but couldn't back in the good ol days. Black shield strong but you can play around in partly due to its massive cooldown. I hope they don't nerf morg though the bigger support pool is cool even if bullshithighnumberpossiblyover100% of people try to let thresh's*** skillset carry them through the role.
**+ Show Spoiler +at least i do in plat whatever my scrub sense is worth maybe I am way off the mark
***+ Show Spoiler +playing thresh may be fun but no number of showers can wash away how dirty it should make you feel
E:
On May 13 2014 12:36 GolemMadness wrote:
How is Nami being killed off...? She's one of the strongest supports right now.
she isn't unless braums wall blocks bubble
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On May 13 2014 11:52 iCanada wrote:Hey TL LoL, I have a question for yall. Does anyone know who the concept artist who drew this Splash is? + Show Spoiler +Did IronStylus do it, or was it another artist?
The artist's deviant art name is michalivan. Pretty sure this is not IronStylus though. Here is a link to their deviant art page. I'm not sure if this artist works directly for riot or is doing commission work, but there are some other league pieces on their profile.
http://michalivan.deviantart.com/
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On May 13 2014 11:43 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 11:23 Swords wrote:Damn, and he doesn't have the excuse of "I was young and naive!" he constantly brings up with the cheating issue for this one. Good luck SHC dealing with this headcase. Meh I donno. I'll actually give him the benefit of the doubt. He was probably younger back then and did some shady stuff. He might be trying to brushing up his act. Again, I do not know for sure. But let's see if SHC will improve under his leadership.
The thing is there are players in this forum who 1. are probably better players/ analysts and 2. haven't done numerous scummy things in the past and would basically be much better for SHC than LS.
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Canada11044 Posts
Braum seems pretty OP so far. Xpecial is saying that he thinks Riot should hotfix him. From the games I've seen in high elo play from match histories, he's like 15-0 and usually gets banned.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Funny how actually everyone ignored Neo's post about TL LoL subforum future :3
Edit : Also, WOW. That lolking match history update + visual update + toggle option is fucking awesome :O
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Canada11044 Posts
Just saw the Lolking update as well. Don't like how each match takes up so much more space, but do like the expanded amount of information it shows in the toggle.
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On May 13 2014 12:36 GolemMadness wrote:
How is Nami being killed off...? She's one of the strongest supports right now.
If you consider being the best of a dead class of supports to be "one of the strongest", I guess. She is rarely the best pick unless a lot of Supports have been banned out.
On May 13 2014 12:38 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 12:06 cLutZ wrote:On May 13 2014 11:34 layabout wrote:
Alistar isn't really played but you cant really push him out of lane and he is dangerous as hell with flash up, plus his teamfight is really nice. He does everything he used to and he also has a surprisingly good win rate in longer games. I thought he would do well at the start of s4 with relic shield, dorans shield and the changes to the defense tree. Sadly, tarics numbers being broken and leona hype train left him sitting in the corner unloved and forgotten. He just doesn't fit the fight initiator role as well as other champs and that what people seem to be looking for now. Fiddle support was hurt by the changes to fear and you can kill him pretty easily in lane, i feel like you are relying on the others letting dark wind poke bounce a lot or getting a lucky ult to be successful. Its not really about Alistar or Fiddle, specifically. Its basically about Thresh's (and possibly Braum's) hyper-utility + Leona's hyper engage seemingly causing the rest of the support cast to be counterpicks, or tier 2 picks. At least from my POV, its probably healthier for the role as a whole for Thresh and Leona to fill Niches (Pick+Antipick and Engage respectively) instead of being staples, Morgana, Annie, and Karma represent niches that they fill fairly well, Morgana perhaps slightly too well. *But I generally doubt that it is healthy for all-in supports like Thresh and Leona (Blitz, and Lee, Jarvan, other nonmeta picks) to be generally strong, as opposed to situationally strong, when compared to the more controlled supports like Janna, Nami, Lulu (Ori, Lux as fringe picks comes to mind). But I could be wrong. *with regards to this is mostly down to the preemptive nerfs/changes to the ap supports at the start of the season combined with the way that janna nami and lulu tend to build things like mikaels shurelyas and locket** with the extra gold and don't reach the levels of ap that riot anticipated for the added utility to have a large impact. Meanwhile all in supports have an easier time in lane now and get to build more health and resistances than they were able to before. They are scaling better whilst more traditional supports arent. This is partly why morg seems so good because she really just needs zhonyas to excel in teamfights which she can get now but couldn't back in the good ol days. Black shield strong but you can play around in partly due to its massive cooldown. I hope they don't nerf morg though the bigger support pool is cool even if bullshithighnumberpossiblyover100% of people try to let thresh's*** skillset carry them through the role.
My general sense is that All-In supports need to have an actual tradeoff that is almost certainly lacking when matched up against a regular control support that isn't basically a counterpick (Morgana). Karma has her poke niche, thats good. But, Leona and Thresh, because of changes are low risk-high reward, with the ability to decisively win all-ins in either direction (with strong lategames now as well). I mean, I agree that your assessment is generally correct as why some of the supports are doing poorly, but I don't think its the beginning or the end of the discussion.
The discussion starts with what kind of supports SHOULD be tier 1 (aka generalist) picks, and Leona, Thresh (Taric, Blitz are similar, but nonmeta at the moment) are probably not the right choice, because they have a clear niche, which means they would be strong situational picks as long as they are not totally outclassed. In another direction you have a champ like Karma, who is a poke champ, who is correctly filling her niche (also Zyra, somewhat), and in yet another you have Sona and Soraka who are more sustain-oriented champs who fill another niche (with overlap, of course, such as Sona and Annie both being AOE initiators).
This feels like a wall of text, but the general point is if you have niche champs being strong enough to basically evolve into generalist picks, then you have a problem. And Braum appears to be another specialist that happens to be strong enough to morph into a generalist.
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On May 13 2014 13:17 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 11:43 Sufficiency wrote:On May 13 2014 11:23 Swords wrote:Damn, and he doesn't have the excuse of "I was young and naive!" he constantly brings up with the cheating issue for this one. Good luck SHC dealing with this headcase. Meh I donno. I'll actually give him the benefit of the doubt. He was probably younger back then and did some shady stuff. He might be trying to brushing up his act. Again, I do not know for sure. But let's see if SHC will improve under his leadership. The thing is there are players in this forum who 1. are probably better players/ analysts and 2. haven't done numerous scummy things in the past and would basically be much better for SHC than LS.
I am pretty sure there are tons of people who are 1 and 2. I am also pretty sure these people are either not interested enough for such a job, or have not tried hard enough to find one.
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Lol people talking about winrates is kinda of silly. Theoretically as long as you can maintain a 51% win rate you can hit D1.
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Actually, win rate discussion is garbage.
It does not matter if you are "52%" overall. It only matters if you are "52%" against a certain league of players.
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Honestly though. We should just move out of TL and make a new community. We'll be like the Mormons whp went to Utah xD
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On May 13 2014 14:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Lol people talking about winrates is kinda of silly. Theoretically as long as you can maintain a 51% win rate you can hit D1.
its more likely if your mmr is high that you jump points quickly and can hit D1 in like 30 games and then your winrate could tend toward 50-55% real fast even if you're playing okay let alone if your skill level dropped.
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On May 13 2014 13:40 739 wrote:
Funny how actually everyone ignored Neo's post about TL LoL subforum future :3
Not really ignored, just not unexpected. We don't put out enough content really to justify a front page slot, and I still remember what happened when we got a slot of equal importance to SC2 and dota2. A ton of people were asking wtf why is lol here noskill game gg, and how do I hide lol, fuck that game, why is it here etc, and IIRC not a single warning about that was given. Pretty much shows where high level support is for LoL(neo + a couple others, and that's it)
It's not the worst thing ever, people can think whatever they want, but until they've played each of the games at a high level(or at least LoL+1) they don't understand just how skill each game requires.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On May 13 2014 14:54 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 13:40 739 wrote:
Funny how actually everyone ignored Neo's post about TL LoL subforum future :3
Not really ignored, just not unexpected. We don't put out enough content really to justify a front page slot, and I still remember what happened when we got a slot of equal importance to SC2 and dota2. A ton of people were asking wtf why is lol here noskill game gg, and how do I hide lol, fuck that game, why is it here etc, and IIRC not a single warning about that was given. Pretty much shows where high level support is for LoL(neo + a couple others, and that's it) It's not the worst thing ever, people can think whatever they want, but until they've played each of the games at a high level(or at least LoL+1) they don't understand just how skill each game requires.
I've played DotA2 since the very first days of open beta. I've been playing League Of Legends before DotA2 release and now I've switched back to LoL (like 4 months ago) and I have to say that I like both games BUT I do enjoy LoL more. Probably because they're still adding content/new champions into the game so it's not getting boring after 2 years of playing the same over and over again.
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sufficiency please move out and make a new community
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On May 13 2014 14:17 Sufficiency wrote:
Honestly though. We should just move out of TL and make a new community. We'll be like the Mormons whp went to Utah xD
i had never considered the religious angle before, i think from that perspective things start to make sense.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.neoseeker.com/neo_image/82304/news/4/diana_splash_lunar_pbe.jpg)
