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On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:
New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it?
Isn't that the definition of "adding" something. Its new, It has utility, Its adding more ? O.o
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On May 21 2014 19:59 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:47 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:28 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. Just wat. You base your point on the fact that you rape baddies in gold, when you're a platinum level player? That makes no sense and it justifies nothing (nocturne is strong right now anyways). On May 21 2014 18:18 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 17:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 17:36 Numy wrote:On May 21 2014 17:29 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 17:24 Numy wrote:
[quote]
Man not only are they homogenizing new champs but now they are going back and butchering old ones. This season of LoL has been most boring I've played. I've actually started playing Smite instead sigh. I knew/know that at some point, the hype of this game will change and there will be a drastic downfall in players, but i really didn't expect it to happen a bit already. This game is just changes upon changes upon changes and at some point, they will have changed so much they lose their core players. I don't expect it to happen before s5/s6 though. I think what's happened is that instead of creating a playground for players they created a factory line. All the constant changes the instant people say anything about a champ or item has created a community that is unable to solve their own problems. At the same time they changed the game in such a way that it's even harder now to do that. There are just too many overlapping kits due to their decreasing the strengths of a kit while flatting out the weaknesses instead of polarizing them further. The same thing happened with items. Making no dead end items just means that the choices you make between games is so minimal. Yango thinks people just aren't smart enough to adapt builds which could be the case too. I think it's just the way the game has been designed. They took their fun product and kept kiddie sizing it until landed up a state I really don't understand or enjoy. It frustrates me as I started to really enjoy LoL a few years back after some shit went down in Dota for me. Now the game I enjoyed so much seems to be leaving me. I can't do anything to stop it nor do I understand why it wants to leave. I'm just baffled at the kits for newer champions. Either they have versatile kits (yasuo/braum) or their numbers are tweaked in a way where it makes balancing hard (lucian). Like, when Lee Sin got released, his kit was unique (and he wasn't deemed op at release) but nowadays his kit seems inferior compared to newer champs. There's no limit for RIOT's versatility and i fear it will get even worse end-s4/start-s5. On May 21 2014 17:38 Amui wrote:On May 21 2014 17:29 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 17:24 Numy wrote:
[quote]
Man not only are they homogenizing new champs but now they are going back and butchering old ones. This season of LoL has been most boring I've played. I've actually started playing Smite instead sigh. I knew/know that at some point, the hype of this game will change and there will be a drastic downfall in players, but i really didn't expect it to happen a bit already. This game is just changes upon changes upon changes and at some point, they will have changed so much they lose their core players. I don't expect it to happen before s5/s6 though. I think it's a lot more that they lose older players because the game changes so much, and a significant amount of the old favorites are no longer really playable because they get beat up by newer, much more well versatile champs. Almost every single new release has a movement skill of some sort, burst, CC etc. They also design stuff for roles, rather than designing kits and letting players decide the role. They're also ridiculously pigheaded and are doing their damndest to prevent competitive play from differing from soloq. Even picks and bans, staying with the same pickban format is retarded at this point with how many champs are in the game. 6 bans for 119 champs seems legit man! The fact that they still haven't made 2nd ban phase or increased the amount of bans is just wtf. And yeah, shit like GP/Cho/Malphite/Morde will hardly ever be picked in competetive play nowadays, like why pick champions with limited kits, when you can go yasuo and laugh. EDIT: I also feel that this whole hype with making creative champions is caused by their f2p model. RIOT wants the newer champions to look fun/exciting/difficult in order to make money >_> How are champions like Velkoz, Jinx, Aatrox, Lissandra, Zac, etc, so much more versatile or anything than a bunch of the older ones? The variety in their skill-set is greater than season 1 champions like Sona/Annie/Gangplank. There are still versatile champions from season 1 like Fiddlesticks and Kayle. It wasn't meant to be a bash or a "you can only play post-s3 champion", but it's obvious that they keep adding more and more utility to newer champions. It's a natural thing to do, but maybe they should look at the 40-50 champions who could use tweaks/reworks instead of shitting out new interesting champions with strong kits. On May 21 2014 18:43 travis wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. how does this prove your point lol fk u beat me They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two. Incidentally, the amount of reworks greatly outnumbers the amount of new champions over the past several months. They're not? So yasuo having a knockback feature, Velkoz having a hard CC and slow on his Q and R is not utility? Even aatrox, liss, zac, hell even jinx has utility of some regard. New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it? What are you even saying? What you just said lol. What the fuck are you trying to say?
Your previous posts were about how newer champions have kits that involve too much utility and it makes them too versatile. Then you randomly say that if a new champion has any utility, it means that new champions are getting more and more of it. I mean, are you trying to say that new champions should just have zero CC, or...?
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On May 21 2014 20:19 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 19:59 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:47 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:28 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. Just wat. You base your point on the fact that you rape baddies in gold, when you're a platinum level player? That makes no sense and it justifies nothing (nocturne is strong right now anyways). On May 21 2014 18:18 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 17:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 17:36 Numy wrote:On May 21 2014 17:29 Sponkz wrote:
[quote]
I knew/know that at some point, the hype of this game will change and there will be a drastic downfall in players, but i really didn't expect it to happen a bit already. This game is just changes upon changes upon changes and at some point, they will have changed so much they lose their core players.
I don't expect it to happen before s5/s6 though. I think what's happened is that instead of creating a playground for players they created a factory line. All the constant changes the instant people say anything about a champ or item has created a community that is unable to solve their own problems. At the same time they changed the game in such a way that it's even harder now to do that. There are just too many overlapping kits due to their decreasing the strengths of a kit while flatting out the weaknesses instead of polarizing them further. The same thing happened with items. Making no dead end items just means that the choices you make between games is so minimal. Yango thinks people just aren't smart enough to adapt builds which could be the case too. I think it's just the way the game has been designed. They took their fun product and kept kiddie sizing it until landed up a state I really don't understand or enjoy. It frustrates me as I started to really enjoy LoL a few years back after some shit went down in Dota for me. Now the game I enjoyed so much seems to be leaving me. I can't do anything to stop it nor do I understand why it wants to leave. I'm just baffled at the kits for newer champions. Either they have versatile kits (yasuo/braum) or their numbers are tweaked in a way where it makes balancing hard (lucian). Like, when Lee Sin got released, his kit was unique (and he wasn't deemed op at release) but nowadays his kit seems inferior compared to newer champs. There's no limit for RIOT's versatility and i fear it will get even worse end-s4/start-s5. On May 21 2014 17:38 Amui wrote:On May 21 2014 17:29 Sponkz wrote:
[quote]
I knew/know that at some point, the hype of this game will change and there will be a drastic downfall in players, but i really didn't expect it to happen a bit already. This game is just changes upon changes upon changes and at some point, they will have changed so much they lose their core players.
I don't expect it to happen before s5/s6 though. I think it's a lot more that they lose older players because the game changes so much, and a significant amount of the old favorites are no longer really playable because they get beat up by newer, much more well versatile champs. Almost every single new release has a movement skill of some sort, burst, CC etc. They also design stuff for roles, rather than designing kits and letting players decide the role. They're also ridiculously pigheaded and are doing their damndest to prevent competitive play from differing from soloq. Even picks and bans, staying with the same pickban format is retarded at this point with how many champs are in the game. 6 bans for 119 champs seems legit man! The fact that they still haven't made 2nd ban phase or increased the amount of bans is just wtf. And yeah, shit like GP/Cho/Malphite/Morde will hardly ever be picked in competetive play nowadays, like why pick champions with limited kits, when you can go yasuo and laugh. EDIT: I also feel that this whole hype with making creative champions is caused by their f2p model. RIOT wants the newer champions to look fun/exciting/difficult in order to make money >_> How are champions like Velkoz, Jinx, Aatrox, Lissandra, Zac, etc, so much more versatile or anything than a bunch of the older ones? The variety in their skill-set is greater than season 1 champions like Sona/Annie/Gangplank. There are still versatile champions from season 1 like Fiddlesticks and Kayle. It wasn't meant to be a bash or a "you can only play post-s3 champion", but it's obvious that they keep adding more and more utility to newer champions. It's a natural thing to do, but maybe they should look at the 40-50 champions who could use tweaks/reworks instead of shitting out new interesting champions with strong kits. On May 21 2014 18:43 travis wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. how does this prove your point lol fk u beat me They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two. Incidentally, the amount of reworks greatly outnumbers the amount of new champions over the past several months. They're not? So yasuo having a knockback feature, Velkoz having a hard CC and slow on his Q and R is not utility? Even aatrox, liss, zac, hell even jinx has utility of some regard. New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it? What are you even saying? What you just said lol. What the fuck are you trying to say? Your previous posts were about how newer champions have kits that involve too much utility and it makes them too versatile. Then you randomly say that if a new champion has any utility, it means that new champions are getting more and more of it. I mean, are you trying to say that new champions should just have zero CC, or...?
No, but you said yourself that newer champions did not have utility and i was just trying to prove to ya, that you were wrong.
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On May 21 2014 20:24 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 20:19 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:59 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:47 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:28 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. Just wat. You base your point on the fact that you rape baddies in gold, when you're a platinum level player? That makes no sense and it justifies nothing (nocturne is strong right now anyways). On May 21 2014 18:18 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 17:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 17:36 Numy wrote:
[quote]
I think what's happened is that instead of creating a playground for players they created a factory line. All the constant changes the instant people say anything about a champ or item has created a community that is unable to solve their own problems. At the same time they changed the game in such a way that it's even harder now to do that.
There are just too many overlapping kits due to their decreasing the strengths of a kit while flatting out the weaknesses instead of polarizing them further. The same thing happened with items. Making no dead end items just means that the choices you make between games is so minimal. Yango thinks people just aren't smart enough to adapt builds which could be the case too. I think it's just the way the game has been designed. They took their fun product and kept kiddie sizing it until landed up a state I really don't understand or enjoy.
It frustrates me as I started to really enjoy LoL a few years back after some shit went down in Dota for me. Now the game I enjoyed so much seems to be leaving me. I can't do anything to stop it nor do I understand why it wants to leave. I'm just baffled at the kits for newer champions. Either they have versatile kits (yasuo/braum) or their numbers are tweaked in a way where it makes balancing hard (lucian). Like, when Lee Sin got released, his kit was unique (and he wasn't deemed op at release) but nowadays his kit seems inferior compared to newer champs. There's no limit for RIOT's versatility and i fear it will get even worse end-s4/start-s5. On May 21 2014 17:38 Amui wrote:
[quote]
I think it's a lot more that they lose older players because the game changes so much, and a significant amount of the old favorites are no longer really playable because they get beat up by newer, much more well versatile champs. Almost every single new release has a movement skill of some sort, burst, CC etc. They also design stuff for roles, rather than designing kits and letting players decide the role. They're also ridiculously pigheaded and are doing their damndest to prevent competitive play from differing from soloq. Even picks and bans, staying with the same pickban format is retarded at this point with how many champs are in the game. 6 bans for 119 champs seems legit man! The fact that they still haven't made 2nd ban phase or increased the amount of bans is just wtf. And yeah, shit like GP/Cho/Malphite/Morde will hardly ever be picked in competetive play nowadays, like why pick champions with limited kits, when you can go yasuo and laugh. EDIT: I also feel that this whole hype with making creative champions is caused by their f2p model. RIOT wants the newer champions to look fun/exciting/difficult in order to make money >_> How are champions like Velkoz, Jinx, Aatrox, Lissandra, Zac, etc, so much more versatile or anything than a bunch of the older ones? The variety in their skill-set is greater than season 1 champions like Sona/Annie/Gangplank. There are still versatile champions from season 1 like Fiddlesticks and Kayle. It wasn't meant to be a bash or a "you can only play post-s3 champion", but it's obvious that they keep adding more and more utility to newer champions. It's a natural thing to do, but maybe they should look at the 40-50 champions who could use tweaks/reworks instead of shitting out new interesting champions with strong kits. On May 21 2014 18:43 travis wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. how does this prove your point lol fk u beat me They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two. Incidentally, the amount of reworks greatly outnumbers the amount of new champions over the past several months. They're not? So yasuo having a knockback feature, Velkoz having a hard CC and slow on his Q and R is not utility? Even aatrox, liss, zac, hell even jinx has utility of some regard. New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it? What are you even saying? What you just said lol. What the fuck are you trying to say? Your previous posts were about how newer champions have kits that involve too much utility and it makes them too versatile. Then you randomly say that if a new champion has any utility, it means that new champions are getting more and more of it. I mean, are you trying to say that new champions should just have zero CC, or...? No, but you said yourself that newer champions did not have utility and i was just trying to prove to ya, that you were wrong.
I never said that. "They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two."
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On May 21 2014 20:26 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 20:24 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 20:19 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:59 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:47 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:28 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. Just wat. You base your point on the fact that you rape baddies in gold, when you're a platinum level player? That makes no sense and it justifies nothing (nocturne is strong right now anyways). On May 21 2014 18:18 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 17:43 Sponkz wrote:
[quote]
I'm just baffled at the kits for newer champions. Either they have versatile kits (yasuo/braum) or their numbers are tweaked in a way where it makes balancing hard (lucian).
Like, when Lee Sin got released, his kit was unique (and he wasn't deemed op at release) but nowadays his kit seems inferior compared to newer champs. There's no limit for RIOT's versatility and i fear it will get even worse end-s4/start-s5.
[quote]
6 bans for 119 champs seems legit man! The fact that they still haven't made 2nd ban phase or increased the amount of bans is just wtf.
And yeah, shit like GP/Cho/Malphite/Morde will hardly ever be picked in competetive play nowadays, like why pick champions with limited kits, when you can go yasuo and laugh.
EDIT: I also feel that this whole hype with making creative champions is caused by their f2p model. RIOT wants the newer champions to look fun/exciting/difficult in order to make money >_> How are champions like Velkoz, Jinx, Aatrox, Lissandra, Zac, etc, so much more versatile or anything than a bunch of the older ones? The variety in their skill-set is greater than season 1 champions like Sona/Annie/Gangplank. There are still versatile champions from season 1 like Fiddlesticks and Kayle. It wasn't meant to be a bash or a "you can only play post-s3 champion", but it's obvious that they keep adding more and more utility to newer champions. It's a natural thing to do, but maybe they should look at the 40-50 champions who could use tweaks/reworks instead of shitting out new interesting champions with strong kits. On May 21 2014 18:43 travis wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. how does this prove your point lol fk u beat me They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two. Incidentally, the amount of reworks greatly outnumbers the amount of new champions over the past several months. They're not? So yasuo having a knockback feature, Velkoz having a hard CC and slow on his Q and R is not utility? Even aatrox, liss, zac, hell even jinx has utility of some regard. New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it? What are you even saying? What you just said lol. What the fuck are you trying to say? Your previous posts were about how newer champions have kits that involve too much utility and it makes them too versatile. Then you randomly say that if a new champion has any utility, it means that new champions are getting more and more of it. I mean, are you trying to say that new champions should just have zero CC, or...? No, but you said yourself that newer champions did not have utility and i was just trying to prove to ya, that you were wrong. I never said that. "They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two."
Yeah and then i listed quite a few champions WITH utility (not supports) and you started talking nonsense about something I'm still not sure about lol.
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On May 21 2014 20:28 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2014 20:26 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 20:24 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 20:19 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:59 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:56 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 19:47 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 19:28 GolemMadness wrote:On May 21 2014 18:43 Sponkz wrote:On May 21 2014 18:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Some of the older champions have been played for so long that they are well understood. This is why they are often far superior than the newer ones.
Furthermore, to prove my point: on my smurf Noc is the newest and the most expensive champion I own. All other champions I own are like early S1 or prior. I am gold 1 on my smurf who failed plat promo twice not because of champion pool full of oldies, but due to ragers. My main is plat 5 with 60+ champions. Just wat. You base your point on the fact that you rape baddies in gold, when you're a platinum level player? That makes no sense and it justifies nothing (nocturne is strong right now anyways). On May 21 2014 18:18 GolemMadness wrote:
[quote]
How are champions like Velkoz, Jinx, Aatrox, Lissandra, Zac, etc, so much more versatile or anything than a bunch of the older ones? The variety in their skill-set is greater than season 1 champions like Sona/Annie/Gangplank. There are still versatile champions from season 1 like Fiddlesticks and Kayle. It wasn't meant to be a bash or a "you can only play post-s3 champion", but it's obvious that they keep adding more and more utility to newer champions. It's a natural thing to do, but maybe they should look at the 40-50 champions who could use tweaks/reworks instead of shitting out new interesting champions with strong kits. On May 21 2014 18:43 travis wrote:
[quote]
how does this prove your point lol fk u beat me They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two. Incidentally, the amount of reworks greatly outnumbers the amount of new champions over the past several months. They're not? So yasuo having a knockback feature, Velkoz having a hard CC and slow on his Q and R is not utility? Even aatrox, liss, zac, hell even jinx has utility of some regard. New champions having utility means that they're adding more and more of it? What are you even saying? What you just said lol. What the fuck are you trying to say? Your previous posts were about how newer champions have kits that involve too much utility and it makes them too versatile. Then you randomly say that if a new champion has any utility, it means that new champions are getting more and more of it. I mean, are you trying to say that new champions should just have zero CC, or...? No, but you said yourself that newer champions did not have utility and i was just trying to prove to ya, that you were wrong. I never said that. "They're not adding more and more utility. The only position you could say that's the case is for supports, and only for the last two." Yeah and then i listed quite a few champions WITH utility (not supports) and you started talking nonsense about something I'm still not sure about lol.
More and more utility means that new champions have an increasing amount of it. Yes, new champions have some utility. So do old champions. Nobody's denying this. The discussion is if new champions possibly are getting too much compared to old ones. I've been saying that the only case you could make for this is with the last two supports (Thresh and Braum).
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He's saying they don't increase the amount of utility a champion packs, not that they don't put utility into new champions. Katarina and Yi are probably some of the only champions without utility (technically Akali can see through walls with W and it's a slow for example), even MF, Kog'Maw, Kha'Zix, Zed, have some.
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New champions mobility isn't as suicide inducingly annoying as old champions mobility like Lee Sin, J4, KASSADIN, Leblanc, Nidalee.
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Yeah, braum and thresh are as immobile as soraka and janna.
Thresh and braum are fucking insane compared to the classic supports. It's partly because they are making more interesting mechanics, but mostly because they are just adding more shit to champions. Sometimes numbers are insane, like thresh having the best shield in the game (beaten only by a lux if she can double shield every member of the team for full value), braum's lvl 1 q doing like 90+ damage. Thresh and braum just do more if they press qwer than soraka or janna or taric.
It's simple power creep.
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On May 21 2014 21:32 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Yeah, braum and thresh are as immobile as soraka and janna.
Thresh and braum are fucking insane compared to the classic supports. It's partly because they are making more interesting mechanics, but mostly because they are just adding more shit to champions. Sometimes numbers are insane, like thresh having the best shield in the game (beaten only by a lux if she can double shield every member of the team for full value), braum's lvl 1 q doing like 90+ damage. Thresh and braum just do more if they press qwer than soraka or janna or taric.
It's simple power creep.
I dont think Braum is at same level as thresh regarding utility, he doesnt have more utility than Janna if not even less. His numbers are big though, Thresh numbers as well (maybe not so much now, but when he came out they were big). Lower Braum numbers and he will be inferior to Janna, Nami etc in terms of usefulness.
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On May 21 2014 16:58 739 wrote:Any notes for 4.8 ?
Later today.
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As long as they give me a solid 2 more weeks on the Korean Kayle freelo train.
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On May 21 2014 21:32 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Yeah, braum and thresh are as immobile as soraka and janna.
Thresh and braum are fucking insane compared to the classic supports. It's partly because they are making more interesting mechanics, but mostly because they are just adding more shit to champions. Sometimes numbers are insane, like thresh having the best shield in the game (beaten only by a lux if she can double shield every member of the team for full value), braum's lvl 1 q doing like 90+ damage. Thresh and braum just do more if they press qwer than soraka or janna or taric.
It's simple power creep.
Thresh is an outlier. I think Riot just wanted to see how much shit they could pack into 1 champion. Braum's kit is not that bonkers, I actually think he's a well designed champion. Braum doesn't deserve to even be mentioned alongside Thresh in terms of shit packed into a kit
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I'm actually a big fan of the slightly increased pace of patching with less changes per patch. I'm kinda hoping that Braum gets nerfed but not too hopeful.
I agree that Braum isn't on Thresh level but he's still a step above other supports at the moment at least. A much more serious problem is imo how straightforward his kit is compared to Thresh. I won't say skill cap because I hate the word but overall the difference between a good/bad Thresh and a good/bad Braum is much bigger for Thresh.
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Kayle is a toplane-ish champ. Maybe toplane is just too diverse to have one single overplayed hero (hue). And well, there weren't many toplaners in top10 of challenger in any of the regions last time people checked, so maybe it really is a low-impact role.
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I'd be cool with riot packing every champion's kit with more utility if it means we get more thresh like champions in the game. When the guy first came out it was legit exciting as fuck to watch the lantern ganks and flash hooks and what have you. His numbers were bonkers yea but if everything's op nothing is.
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maybe its that top lane is more balanced / more coinflip (jungle pressure op) than other lanes, leading to champion choice being the less important factor. even if the person who goes on to win the lane stomps the game often, they might not win the lane reliably.
your conclusion is not shown by that data at all.
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nah top lanes generally have the least impact on the game simply because of the increased reward of action around bottom lane because of dragon and 2x as many people bot
tolkiens conspiracy theory is pretty bad because top laners are still needed though, you can't abandon top lane.
also saying top lane is more decided by jungle pressure means that jungle has more impact than top lane by the nature of the statement
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