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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Why do you think this is not the case? This is a very likely scenario, actually. Curse is a big company. They are not going to develop some sort of software that is obviously illegal for Riot unless Riot explicitly gave them OK. The potential PR risks for publishing a hack/cheat software are too much for Curse. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Month old but "currently we have not taken an official stance on curse voice" Is there a post somewhere saying it's okay? http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=46621008#46621008 Later in the thread, 5 days ago, still no official stance. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:41 Ketara wrote: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=45788660#45788660 Month old but "currently we have not taken an official stance on curse voice" Is there a post somewhere saying it's okay? http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=46621008#46621008 Later in the thread, 5 days ago, still no official stance. There is a post somewhere about this. Riot said something about the lines of "so long as the information is already available to the player legally, we don't mind the timers". Programs that give you information you have already earned (such as visible timers) are ok. Programs that give you information you have not earned (such as enemy timers/timers in the fog of war), ones that make decisions for you, or take actions for you, are NOT ok. Yes, this. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
In fact, the most recent statement from Riot on curse voice appears to be that it's banned, although that is from the LA servers. Have you guys been freaking about about this shit for nearly a week over one non-official statement on a forum? | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:46 Ketara wrote: Yeah he says right before that that this is not an official statement. Have you guys been freaking about about this shit for nearly a week over one non-official statement on a forum? He said this is going to be the stance in the future. This implies that Curse Voice is OK, and will be solidly defined as OK. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
I've seen an awful lot of "OH MY GOD WE CAN WRITE PROGRAMS THAT TELL US WHAT BUSHES ARE DANGEROUS BASED ON LAST KNOWN ENEMY POSITIONS" which he is nowhere near implying. Later on in the LA thread they say Riot HQ still hasn't made a decision on whether or not Curse Voice will be allowed, 2 days ago. Well, according to google translate: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http://forums.las.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=83611&edit-text= | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:51 Ketara wrote: He says that that is the general idea. I've seen an awful lot of "OH MY GOD WE CAN WRITE PROGRAMS THAT TELL US WHAT BUSHES ARE DANGEROUS BASED ON LAST KNOWN ENEMY POSITIONS" which he is nowhere near implying. Here's one example. I am going to write a program which, when enemy champions come close to friendly wards, will flash the screen and warn me. Then: Consequence: I no longer need to look at the minimap. When someone runs through a ward to gank me, I will be notified automatically. Justification: I placed the ward myself; I earned the information regarding the enemy champion's movement. My program merely "amplifies" this information. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:55 Ketara wrote: There is absolutely no indication that a program like that will be allowed from Sargonas's statement. That's exactly what his statement says. It's information you've already earned via the ward placement. The logic follows. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 01:55 Ketara wrote: There is absolutely no indication that a program like that will be allowed from Sargonas's statement. Here: + Show Spoiler + Moving forward, we are crafting a clearer policy around 3rd party addons. It is not quite ready for prime-time roll out yet, but will be in the very near future. To give you some insight on the direction we are headed though (and to solicit your feedback) this is the direction we are heading. (Please note, this is a general idea of where we are headed, and NOT a verbatim example of the new policy.) "Programs that give you information you have already earned (such as visible timers) are ok. Programs that give you information you have not earned (such as enemy timers/timers in the fog of war), ones that make decisions for you, or take actions for you, are NOT ok." If you have any feedback on this, my team and I would love to hear it! I earned the location of the enemy champion by placing the ward. My program merely amplified the information and present it in a more obvious way. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
There is no indication that he is talking about anything other than dragon, baron and buff camp timers anywhere in that statement. I think talking about things like the above before an official statement is added to the ToS is very conspiracy theory, personally. Especially since the LA thread, which is more recent, says that Riot HQ still hasn't made a final decision on Curse Voice, and is leaning towards banning it. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 02:01 Ketara wrote: No. His only given example is "such as visible timers". There is no indication that he is talking about anything other than dragon, baron and buff camp timers anywhere in that statement. I think talking about things like the above before an official statement is added to the ToS is very conspiracy theory, personally. Visible champions on the minimap are actually even more obvious than visible timers. So now we need to argue about what is more "visible" or "obvious" - which is a really gray area. And Curse has tons of money. See the problem yet? Furthermore, Curse Voice also displays cooldown of your teammates' ultimate. Those are definitely NOT visible. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On April 28 2014 02:01 Ketara wrote: No. His only given example is "such as visible timers". There is no indication that he is talking about anything other than dragon, baron and buff camp timers anywhere in that statement. I think talking about things like the above before an official statement is added to the ToS is very conspiracy theory, personally. Especially since the LA thread, which is more recent, says that Riot HQ still hasn't made a final decision on Curse Voice, and is leaning towards banning it. Yes. His only EXAMPLE is visible timers. His STATEMENT is "information you've legally earned." Like information from wards. Obviously an official statement will be the end of the discussion, but as long as this is the most official statement we have, conjecture that fits his descriptions (like Suff's example) is relevant and important. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you took the wording of Sargonas's post literally, Curse Voice would be banned because of these cooldown timers. It gives you information you couldn't otherwise obtain strictly with the information given to you in the game because you can't know if teammates have CDR on runes/masteries. But again, taking the post literally is stupid because it's not an official statement. And the most recent Riot statement appears to be that they are leaning towards banning it but haven't made a final decision. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 02:04 Ketara wrote: So that's probably a reason why they are apparently leaning towards banning it then. Even so, merely timers themselves are NOT OK. The nature of Curse's hack is no different from the 0 CD summoners hack or the 0 CD botrk proc hack or maphacks for other games. You make a program which reads the game client's memory. If Curse's program only look at exactly what you see on your screen, then do some sort of text recognition to find the dragon timestamp, so be it - because such programs cannot be be stopped even on a theoretical level. This is clearly not the case here. Any program that reads the game client's memory is NOT OK and SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. On April 28 2014 02:05 wei2coolman wrote: Isn't that what the green orb thingy is? it's visible timer (although a super buggy one, I for one am ok with Curse Voice's ult timers, cuz Riot's one that is provided in game is buggy pos). No it's not like that. I actually have Curse Voice right now so I think I can describe what it does. In regards to timers, it puts a box beside each champion's box on the left side, with EXACTLY HOW MANY SECONDS LEFT ON THEIR R. The box also changes colour depending on how many seconds left: >10 seconds remaining: red <10 seconds remaining: orange/yellow 0 seconds remaining: green | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But I don't see any indication from the Riot statements that they're going to be allowing programs like that. It's understanding to be concerned, but shit like "imo somebody at riot NA took a lot of money said its ok without checking public opinion or even knowing about the timers, now they cant back out of the deal and we have things like riot LA saying its illegal and not allowing it in LCS" bothers me. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 28 2014 02:07 Ketara wrote: The actual number is not visible. If you took the wording of Sargonas's post literally, Curse Voice would be banned because of these cooldown timers. It gives you information you couldn't otherwise obtain strictly with the information given to you in the game because you can't know if teammates have CDR on runes/masteries. But again, taking the post literally is stupid because it's not an official statement. And the most recent Riot statement appears to be that they are leaning towards banning it but haven't made a final decision. This Riot Sargonas is a "Developer Relations Manager". It sounds to me from his title that he directly oversees the aspect over third party programs at Riot. His words mean much, much more than what LAN says. | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On April 28 2014 02:13 Ketara wrote: I mean, I share your concerns that programs like that would do a lot to ruin the game. But I don't see any indication from the Riot statements that they're going to be allowing programs like that. It's understanding to be concerned, but shit like bothers me. I agree with you on that. It's one thing to be worried about the effects a change like this might have on the game, it's another to go full tinfoil-hat and assume it's all a money grab. | ||
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