EPT[Patch 4.6] Twitch VU General Discussion - Page 13
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On April 23 2014 01:40 Swords wrote: As a mac user (I know...), I find Curse Voice pretty damn distressing. Even without the timers it's completely unfair that a portion of the player base won't be able to talk to their teammates - being able to communicate is an ENORMOUS advantage in split second engages. There have been so many times in botlane where I've wanted to tell my support or adc to go on a certain target and we end up splitting our damage. Now because I don't own the right computer (even though Riot supports the computer I use) I have a massive disadvantage. I really don't understand why they're allowing this, it's definitely making me consider dropping league and playing other games. I don't want to have to purchase another computer to be on an even playing field as others, I can't afford it, and even if I did have another computer it'd really suck to see the game devolve into having to download the latest, best 3rd party program so you can be on an even footing with your opponents. I'm sorry if all this has already been said, but the way they're approaching this really disturbs me. I'm not trying to say that you don't have a very real point, but literally every mac nowadays can run windows via bootcamp. A copy of windows 7 is ~$100, way less than a new computer. I've been doing this for ages because I found that my games run better on windows and I need the FPS because of integrated graphics. Obviously it's not a real solution to the platform problem (I don't think it's acceptable for most mac users) but I was surprised you made zero mention of it. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:36 wei2coolman wrote: Do you think dragon and baron timer is gunna magically make a bronze 5 scrub into silver 1 scrub? majority of ranked placement is strictly due to mechanical ability (or for majority of players, inability). By the time you get to the point where your mechanics are no longer the issue and timing and macro strategy is the limiting factor, everyone around is already timing a lot of this stuff. Well for one i know that my timing ability is poor. I don't do it when I know i should. So i only have inexact timers and never have blue/red timed. I play Gold 1/Plat 5 at the moment but will probably climb to plat 3 in time(where I ended last season). This kind of thing would significantly improve my game and coordination abilities. And frankly I will be using it (or rather attempting to since I don't have a key) until riot implements the features or its banned. But right now, when curse voice is going to add an overlay that improves my play in an area I know I am weak in, for free, while also providing servers for which I can easily connect to others in game without having to give people my personal/group vent/teamspeak information then yea, 100% i am going to use that and it will 100% be an unfair advantage compared to people who do not. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:38 TheYango wrote: The problem is that a fundamentally reactionary approach is ill-suited to handling a community that's ultimately capable of creating a lot of features much faster than Riot can handle them on a case-by-case basis. If you believe otherwise, then you vastly underestimate a gaming community's ability to create high-quality content (and LoL's community is far larger than most). "No unless we otherwise say yes" is a much better policy for this sort of thing than "yes unless we otherwise say no". I'd like to believe the community knows better as to what the line is and I think Riot is doing the right thing morally if not necessarily realistically. At the end of the day however yeah it could happen but it's about as likely as Kupo turning into Riot's biggest fan. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:36 wei2coolman wrote: Do you think dragon and baron timer is gunna magically make a bronze 5 scrub into silver 1 scrub? majority of ranked placement is strictly due to mechanical ability (or for majority of players, inability). By the time you get to the point where your mechanics are no longer the issue and timing and macro strategy is the limiting factor, everyone around is already timing a lot of this stuff. This goes into a sloppery slope. What exactly is too much advantage? We can easily see that the auto timers do help the players. The issue is whether it turns b5 into s1. And how much money from Curse was involved? | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:44 Parnage wrote: I'd like to believe the community knows better as to what the line is and I think Riot is doing the right thing morally if not necessarily realistically. Video game communities and morality? LOL If the community knew where to draw the line, Elo boosting would never even have been a thing. People will take whatever advantages they can get so long as it doesn't put their money/time investment at risk. EDIT: Another example--you remember when dodging no longer lost you Elo in ranked? EVERYONE started doing it. It didn't matter that ostensibly it was probably not intended and how it made actually getting games a nightmare when you had to go through a bunch of dodges before getting a game. People did whatever was within their power to protect their rating, even if it meant chain-dodging a ridiculous number of games to get a team they were OK with. The idea that the community will sort itself out over this thing just doesn't line up with reality. If there is room for abuse, unless Riot themselves draws the line, the community WILL abuse it. | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:37 Parnage wrote: "Generally speaking, the intent was that we reserved the right to take action against any programs we deem harmful to the community at any time, but that we did not have to explicitly keep a meticulous "bad list" or "good list" of apps. Instead, things would live in a neutral area until we had a need to make a call one way or another on a case by case basis."-Riot Sargonas Developer Relations Manager They are however updating the policy and you wanna bet that this will still be here or in the end they reserve the right to say no yes to something? My position is that that policy is bad. And that the base situation should be "no unless we say yes/implement your idea for everyone" and not "grey area until we say no". The first means that programs have to be vetted and OK'd and that, more or less, everyone is on the same page with what is legal. The second means that people who abuse the information (say in the way Sufficiency or I proposed) probably cannot be punished and can gain an undue advantage until such a time as riot figures out what is happening and bans it. And that situation is bad, unless you like playing against people with undue advantages or are trying to make yourself have an undue advantage. But I dislike both of those options | ||
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Goumindong
United States3529 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:44 Sufficiency wrote: This goes into a sloppery slope. What exactly is too much advantage? We can easily see that the auto timers do help the players. The issue is whether it turns b5 into s1. And how much money from Curse was involved? It doesn't even go to a slippery slope. I will be using this product and It will unequivocally improve my game. It will give me an advantage over players who don't use it and am in the same situation I am in. It will give me an advantage over players who are better than I am at timing buffs and objectives. Its no different than just giving me free wins for no reason | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:39 phyvo wrote: I'm not trying to say that you don't have a very real point, but literally every mac nowadays can run windows via bootcamp. A copy of windows 7 is ~$100, way less than a new computer. I've been doing this for ages because I found that my games run better on windows and I need the FPS because of integrated graphics. Obviously it's not a real solution to the platform problem (I don't think it's acceptable for most mac users) but I was surprised you made zero mention of it. Yeah, I didn't really consider bootcamp, so I probably overstated the issue. The thing is I don't have a lot of money right now, and I don't really need windows for anything important in my life currently, so the idea of spending money just so I can download a third party program is pretty distasteful to me. The issue is more of the overarching problem that Riot claims to support the mac community, but allowing a program like this that's windows only puts the entire mac community at a disadvantage. Then you have the issue of someone programming a 3rd party mac program that's better than Curse voice (even some tiny advantage, not something enormous like people have been discussing) and a small segment of the community suddenly has an advantage over those with windows. I dunno, I'm probably overreacting, but this stuff really pisses me off. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:51 wei2coolman wrote: I think the Curse voice chat is a way of bridging solo queue with ranked 5's. DotA 2 has built-in voice chat. Experience says this makes absolutely zero difference in this respect. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:44 Parnage wrote: I'd like to believe the community knows better as to what the line is Are you new to multiplayer/competitive videogames? People will do EXACTLY as much as they are allowed to get away with(and a small % will do things they can't get away with but do so until they are caught). There is so much precedent for this it's laughable to postulate otherwise. LoL is hardly some shining beacon of a moral compass in the online gaming world, people will exploit anything they can in search of a shinier ranked icon. | ||
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ak1knight
United States313 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
I can't really argue except to point out the absurdity that you are worried about things that go against Riot's best interests and don't exist yet in the first place. It'd be different if Curse voice was advertising a patch about them adding enemy ult timers and skill shot detector crap(how you'd do that in any meaningful way is beyond me considering the lack of cast times on the majority of skillshots) but they aren't so what can I really say to defend against things that haven't happened yet? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:52 TheYango wrote: DotA 2 has built-in voice chat. Experience says this makes absolutely zero difference in this respect. Yeah, but that's cuz you can draw penises on the mini map. Distracting penis drawings on minimap overrides built in voice chat. in all seriousness, in ranked 5's (with non-pro teams), the game is still played in a very solo queue matter, but stuff like teamfights/ganks/etc get improved on with voice chat. Which is what Curse Voice is trying to help create. | ||
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Swords
6038 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:51 wei2coolman wrote: I think the Curse voice chat is a way of bridging solo queue with ranked 5's. Although I do think timers by 3rd party programs shouldn't be allowed, but the real world impact is probably minimal at best, at least in it's current iteration. The thing is it'll be available in ranked 5s, which I think is laughable since hitting high challenger in ranked is one way to qualify for LCS qualification tournaments (I might be wrong about this though - please correct me if I'm wrong). So while it's disallowed in competitive play, teams will be able to use it to get an advantage to getting into competitive play. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:52 TheYango wrote: DotA 2 has built-in voice chat. Experience says this makes absolutely zero difference in this respect. Garena LoL has voice chat since forever too. People don't even use it. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On April 23 2014 03:56 Swords wrote: The thing is it'll be available in ranked 5s, which I think is laughable since hitting high challenger in ranked is one way to qualify for LCS qualification tournaments (I might be wrong about this though - please correct me if I'm wrong). So while it's disallowed in competitive play, teams will be able to use it to get an advantage to getting into competitive play. If you actually believe a group of D1 players don't do everything the Curse Voice program does, already, your fooling yourself. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On WowApril 23 2014 03:36 wei2coolman wrote: Do you think dragon and baron timer is gunna magically make a bronze 5 scrub into silver 1 scrub? Actually, yes. Id wager its more than that. Its like in wow, raid timers trivialized a bunch of fights because you knew when to crank up healing, etc. Now, if this was like the wow interface addons, I'm game. I would love to be able to customize my bars easily instead of sometimes accidentally deleting my chat. | ||
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