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K. To my understanding, Curse Voice's timer is automatic. Essentially, it extracts information from the game client's memory to see if things are dead. If this is the case, then we can also make the following legal third party software.
1. Burst calculator. Given a player's items, level, and rune/mastery (rune and mastery are available through Riot API), you can calculate how much burst, for example, LeBlanc can do. So you can make a program which allows you to calculate if you can kill a target with a full combo as LeBlanc (kind of like Chogath's R), or if a LeBlanc can kill you. Both are perfectly legal.
2. Jungle rotation calculator. Given your level, items, and skills, you can compute an optimal jungle path and easily predict how long it will take.
3. Teamfight decision maker. Given your stats and your opponents' stats (visible opponents), you can easily calculate how long you can survive in the teamfight (assuming your opponents play perfectly) and whether or not you want to fight or retreat.
4. 100% map awareness. No need to look at minimap. If an enemy champion walks pass a ward you or your teammate placed, you get a notification.
5. Gank predictor. This is similar to 4 but slightly more complicated. Say you are top lane and enemy jungler just showed up bot. Then you can calculate the 'safe period' you got by looking at the stats of the enemy jungler (movement speed in particular). During safe period you won't get ganked. This becomes even better if you accumluate your data over time to make better decisions. Kind of like google maps.
6. Face check predictor. Similar to 5, with some data, you can also automatically label each brush with a risk level based on known enemy movement. No more unsafe brush check.
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Riot should just ban these kinds of things. They're not allowed in tourney setting, they're not allowed in soloq.
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United States15536 Posts
On April 23 2014 02:57 Doctorbeat wrote:
Riot should just ban these kinds of things. They're not allowed in tourney setting, they're not allowed in soloq.
This is pretty much how I feel about this. I know that soloq & regular play != tournaments, but if it's considered cheating in one area, I don't see how it's not cheating in another.
If it's not cheating in tournament play, then maybe I don't like the direction Riot's taking, but at least it's not hypocritical.
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United States47024 Posts
1. Burst calculator. Given a player's items, level, and rune/mastery (rune and mastery are available through Riot API), you can calculate how much burst, for example, LeBlanc can do. So you can make a program which allows you to calculate if you can kill a target with a full combo as LeBlanc (kind of like Chogath's R), or if a LeBlanc can kill you. Both are perfectly legal.
This also has an alternative application for "perfect" Smite usage.
On April 23 2014 03:08 AsmodeusXI wrote:
This is pretty much how I feel about this. I know that soloq & regular play != tournaments, but if it's considered cheating in one area, I don't see how it's not cheating in another.
Bear in mind that there's the precedent set by WoW arena where add-ons were allowed on live but not in tournaments. If that actually is Riot's stance, it wouldn't surprise me if that's the precedent they're working with.
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On April 23 2014 02:55 Sufficiency wrote:
K. To my understanding, Curse Voice's timer is automatic. Essentially, it extracts information from the game client's memory to see if things are dead. If this is the case, then we can also make the following legal third party software.
1. Burst calculator. Given a player's items, level, and rune/mastery (rune and mastery are available through Riot API), you can calculate how much burst, for example, LeBlanc can do. So you can make a program which allows you to calculate if you can kill a target with a full combo as LeBlanc (kind of like Chogath's R), or if a LeBlanc can kill you. Both are perfectly legal.
2. Jungle rotation calculator. Given your level, items, and skills, you can compute an optimal jungle path and easily predict how long it will take.
3. Teamfight decision maker. Given your stats and your opponents' stats (visible opponents), you can easily calculate how long you can survive in the teamfight (assuming your opponents play perfectly) and whether or not you want to fight or retreat.
4. 100% map awareness. No need to look at minimap. If an enemy champion walks pass a ward you or your teammate placed, you get a notification.
5. Gank predictor. This is similar to 4 but slightly more complicated. Say you are top lane and enemy jungler just showed up bot. Then you can calculate the 'safe period' you got by looking at the stats of the enemy jungler (movement speed in particular). During safe period you won't get ganked. This becomes even better if you accumluate your data over time to make better decisions. Kind of like google maps.
6. Face check predictor. Similar to 5, with some data, you can also automatically label each brush with a risk level based on known enemy movement. No more unsafe brush check.
I'll take things that are unlikely to be made let alone allowed by Riot for 500 Alex. This is getting to Alex Jones levels of conspiracy and slipping slopes. If you honestly think Riot would allow -any- of those you must also believe that Riot's been paid off by Curse.
This is just you spewing out your fears of things that would never happen and if they did would kill the game so it'd be against any common sense by Riot. One statement in which they themselves said they would pick and choose what was and wasn't allowed if it became a problem is not going to open up some flood gates of magical make the game play for you add-ons.
The only reason to dislike this stuff is because it's not easily obtainable for everyone in the standard UI. I can get that, but being upset that you can measure a buff without typing it out or spewing conspiracy theories on how Riot's going to shoot themselves in the head by allowing all these flood gate addons because Riot said "if you can see it it's okay" is asinine.
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I'd be happy if Riot just had the text of Dragon/Baron time killed separated from chat, fuck having to scroll through 30-40 lines of rage filled BM from teammates and opponents just to time when next dragon/baron is up.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean if we're working with WoW arena as the point of reference (which is the only possible point of reference really because no other comparable multiplayer competitive game was ever similarly open-minded toward add-ons except WoW), and we look at the amount of ridiculous stuff people got away with there, most of the stuff Sufficiency listed is not all that far-fetched.
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The point is that there's little real difference between keeping track of buff respawns and keeping track of enemy cooldowns, or last seen location. These are all things that good players have approximate timers for in their heads, where having the computer keep track of it confers a huge advantage without actually doing anything you couldn't do yourself.
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of course they aren't going to allow that kind of stuff, but they're setting themselves up for drawing a shifting arbitrary imaginary line that will be difficult if not impossible to police and will reek of hypocrisy and profiteering when you allow curse voice but not software from a small independent developer that only cheats slightly more.
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you guys are all complaining about the buff timer, but wouldn't the voice chat be the biggest bonus out of all of the Curse Voice feature that is more likely to boost a team's strength for a majority of players?
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On April 23 2014 03:17 wei2coolman wrote:
I'd be happy if Riot just had the text of Dragon/Baron time killed separated from chat, fuck having to scroll through 30-40 lines of rage filled BM from teammates and opponents just to time when next dragon/baron is up.
The game also doesn't track ult CD, regardless of what "little green dot" tries to be. The dot only tells you if the dot is on or off cooldown, and sometimes bugs out, but doesn't tell how how many seconds left until it comes up.
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On April 23 2014 03:21 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 03:17 wei2coolman wrote:
I'd be happy if Riot just had the text of Dragon/Baron time killed separated from chat, fuck having to scroll through 30-40 lines of rage filled BM from teammates and opponents just to time when next dragon/baron is up. The game also doesn't track ult CD, regardless of what "little green dot" tries to be. The dot only tells you if the dot is on or off cooldown, and sometimes bugs out, but doesn't tell how how many seconds left until it comes up.
yeah i can agree with the ult timer being quite out of line. but, i think there's an argument to be made where if you had 5 man stack with voice chat, finding ult timers out would be super super easy, while in solo q, not everyone responds to the chat, or typing takes risks (like getting jumped on while in jungle typing), so the ult timer is suppose to bridge that gap to create more organized games.
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On April 23 2014 03:21 wei2coolman wrote:
you guys are all complaining about the buff timer, but wouldn't the voice chat be the biggest bonus out of all of the Curse Voice feature that is more likely to boost a team's strength for a majority of players?
True, but that's fine really. Nothing is stopping you from adding your teammates on Skype/Vent/Teamspeak/whatever in the lobby.
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I remember full well the WoW arena complaints on add-ons that measured trinket cooldowns and eventually all the major abilities of a class and how it essentially took much of the skill out of the matches( to be fair, Blizzards nerf whatever won a event and rely on biased players for how arena should be played didn't help)
WoW is an entirely different game and it's stretching it to call it a point of reference to League and the current situation with Curse voice. WoW was never taken overly seriously as a competitive game nor was it ran as such.
League by all accounts is and they have a interest in making sure Solo-que is fair so it feels like if Jimmy the Bronze player works hard enough he could be just as good as his idol on the LCS. I just don't see any reason for League to allow any of those things Sufficiency mentioned outside of just not caring about the game anymore.
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On April 23 2014 03:26 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 03:21 wei2coolman wrote:
you guys are all complaining about the buff timer, but wouldn't the voice chat be the biggest bonus out of all of the Curse Voice feature that is more likely to boost a team's strength for a majority of players? True, but that's fine really. Nothing is stopping you from adding your teammates on Skype/Vent/Teamspeak/whatever in the lobby.
but it's a 3rd party program!
plus no one actually goes through that much trouble to ask for that shit while they're too busy typing in all caps "MID OR FEED UR FGGT" "BAN BATTLE RAKA OR I FEED"
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On April 23 2014 02:55 Sufficiency wrote:
K. To my understanding, Curse Voice's timer is automatic. Essentially, it extracts information from the game client's memory to see if things are dead. If this is the case, then we can also make the following legal third party software.
1. Burst calculator. Given a player's items, level, and rune/mastery (rune and mastery are available through Riot API), you can calculate how much burst, for example, LeBlanc can do. So you can make a program which allows you to calculate if you can kill a target with a full combo as LeBlanc (kind of like Chogath's R), or if a LeBlanc can kill you. Both are perfectly legal.
2. Jungle rotation calculator. Given your level, items, and skills, you can compute an optimal jungle path and easily predict how long it will take.
3. Teamfight decision maker. Given your stats and your opponents' stats (visible opponents), you can easily calculate how long you can survive in the teamfight (assuming your opponents play perfectly) and whether or not you want to fight or retreat.
4. 100% map awareness. No need to look at minimap. If an enemy champion walks pass a ward you or your teammate placed, you get a notification.
5. Gank predictor. This is similar to 4 but slightly more complicated. Say you are top lane and enemy jungler just showed up bot. Then you can calculate the 'safe period' you got by looking at the stats of the enemy jungler (movement speed in particular). During safe period you won't get ganked. This becomes even better if you accumluate your data over time to make better decisions. Kind of like google maps.
6. Face check predictor. Similar to 5, with some data, you can also automatically label each brush with a risk level based on known enemy movement. No more unsafe brush check.
This isn't even the tip of the iceburg. You can constantly have your and enemy zones visible so that you can't misscast spartcast spells and so you know precisely where you need to be to be out of the enemies range. You can display enemy missile paths so that you know if you have to flash/evade and precisely how much. You can display enemy movement paths so that you can better place AoE's where they can't easily react and even create an indicator which will tell you when an enemy cannot dodge an ability (without flash/dash)
I'll take things that are unlikely to be made let alone allowed by Riot for 500 Alex. This is getting to Alex Jones levels of conspiracy and slipping slopes. If you honestly think Riot would allow -any- of those you must also believe that Riot's been paid off by Curse.
Alternately you read Riots stated policy and then looked at what it allows
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On April 23 2014 03:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Voice chat is just that. Voice chat. It does not change your actual gameplay.
It is like saying you should ban players with a certain threshold of income, because they probably have more money, free time, and better hardware. As we all know from regi, anything below 60 fps is unplayable.
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On April 23 2014 03:33 Sufficiency wrote:
Voice chat is just that. Voice chat. It does not change your actual gameplay.
It is like saying you should ban players with a certain threshold of income, because they probably have more money, free time, and better hardware.
Do you think dragon and baron timer is gunna magically make a bronze 5 scrub into silver 1 scrub?
majority of ranked placement is strictly due to mechanical ability (or for majority of players, inability). By the time you get to the point where your mechanics are no longer the issue and timing and macro strategy is the limiting factor, everyone around is already timing a lot of this stuff.
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On April 23 2014 03:31 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2014 02:55 Sufficiency wrote:
K. To my understanding, Curse Voice's timer is automatic. Essentially, it extracts information from the game client's memory to see if things are dead. If this is the case, then we can also make the following legal third party software.
1. Burst calculator. Given a player's items, level, and rune/mastery (rune and mastery are available through Riot API), you can calculate how much burst, for example, LeBlanc can do. So you can make a program which allows you to calculate if you can kill a target with a full combo as LeBlanc (kind of like Chogath's R), or if a LeBlanc can kill you. Both are perfectly legal.
2. Jungle rotation calculator. Given your level, items, and skills, you can compute an optimal jungle path and easily predict how long it will take.
3. Teamfight decision maker. Given your stats and your opponents' stats (visible opponents), you can easily calculate how long you can survive in the teamfight (assuming your opponents play perfectly) and whether or not you want to fight or retreat.
4. 100% map awareness. No need to look at minimap. If an enemy champion walks pass a ward you or your teammate placed, you get a notification.
5. Gank predictor. This is similar to 4 but slightly more complicated. Say you are top lane and enemy jungler just showed up bot. Then you can calculate the 'safe period' you got by looking at the stats of the enemy jungler (movement speed in particular). During safe period you won't get ganked. This becomes even better if you accumluate your data over time to make better decisions. Kind of like google maps.
6. Face check predictor. Similar to 5, with some data, you can also automatically label each brush with a risk level based on known enemy movement. No more unsafe brush check.
This isn't even the tip of the iceburg. You can constantly have your and enemy zones visible so that you can't misscast spartcast spells and so you know precisely where you need to be to be out of the enemies range. You can display enemy missile paths so that you know if you have to flash/evade and precisely how much. You can display enemy movement paths so that you can better place AoE's where they can't easily react and even create an indicator which will tell you when an enemy cannot dodge an ability (without flash/dash) Show nested quote +
I'll take things that are unlikely to be made let alone allowed by Riot for 500 Alex. This is getting to Alex Jones levels of conspiracy and slipping slopes. If you honestly think Riot would allow -any- of those you must also believe that Riot's been paid off by Curse.
Alternately you read Riots stated policy and then looked at what it allows
"Generally speaking, the intent was that we reserved the right to take action against any programs we deem harmful to the community at any time, but that we did not have to explicitly keep a meticulous "bad list" or "good list" of apps. Instead, things would live in a neutral area until we had a need to make a call one way or another on a case by case basis."-Riot Sargonas Developer Relations Manager
They are however updating the policy and you wanna bet that this will still be here or in the end they reserve the right to say no yes to something?
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EPT
