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On April 03 2014 22:57 Lonyo wrote:
What's the mana situation, especially if you're not getting blues?
About the same as before. Less cost on the Qs but without the free W mana it's pretty negligible. You might have like 40 mana more per per minute available if your use Q as soon as it was off cooldown all the time (you didn't, which is why I say negligible).
My biggest problem beyond all the other stuff I've stated is I have no idea how to build him now. AP isn't really an option as he's not bursting anyone so you can't go glass cannon, and there's shit all for tanks who only scale on AP( atleast ad scalers just have good base AD and can just build tanky). I guess you could go RoA since his only tanky scaling is HP but then you'd be building RoA, and I don't like sinking lots of gold into something that's not immediately worth it unless I'm like Ryze or Karthus or someone who really takes over late.
If you go full tank CC bot then you're just a glorified Leona that needed farm.
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Anyone played Rengar yet? Seems like a lot of buffs...
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For people wondering about the rune changes and whether or not to pick up armor/level or whatever, I did math on the before and after differences for Lux on the Lux guide.
Going to be a little bit different for other champions obviously, but on Lux it's basically this:
Early game flat armor still the same.
Flat health still bad unless you're going all in at level 1.
Late game Health/level was better before, Armor/level is better now. Or at least I think so. Actually on second thought, HP/level might still be better for late game, I don't fucking know.
Personally for runes I'm going to be buying Armor/Level, Mana regen/level blues, and maybe CDR/level quints.
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The Prime summoner icon isn't in the store yet? It was in one of the PBE updates a few weeks ago T____T
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On April 03 2014 22:57 AsmodeusXI wrote:
If this is true, I'm feeling far more upset about this than I was about Olaf. I can't tell whether it's because Gragas is (was?) a more interesting champion or because I just thought Olaf was (is?) bullshit.
Maybe both.
I'm still salty about Olaf so can't really relate to that. But gragas was one of riots coolest champions and their changes to Olaf were admitted as nerfs. This is disguised as a tweak, but really just makes his kit incomprehensible.
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I've been thinking about this recently but I feel like whatever team Riot has doing rework stats, doesn't it seem like they have a habit of undershooting things?
Seems like the majority of recent champion reworks all come out with numbers that are just too low for the champion to be viable, regardless of whether or not they were improved thematically.
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To be fair, I don't think trying to turn a a mage who plays different from every other mage in the game to another bruiser was the best thematic idea, either.
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I don't think Xerath was improved thematically either, which is why I say regardless.
I can see where they wanted to go with Gragas but I'm not sure they got there.
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the gragas W change makes the skarner rework look brilliant in comparison. pretty much every on next hit ability in the game is an auto-attack reset, but the gragas W makes it either harder to get in auto range or harder to stay in range and actually prevents you from auto-attacking. even as a reactionary defensive buff it's terrible because it slows you and makes it harder to dodge skill shots.
it seemed like their desired goal was to shift power from his long range poke/burst to more of a tanky melee role, but then they completely gutted the practical up-time of his tank steroid and lowered the base damage on his skills to punish you for buying tank items. the only way this rework makes any logical sense is if it was intended to be a complicated way of obfuscating their real goal of removing from the regularly played champion pool.
edit: i don't really play him but i actually like the way xerath's new kit works, it seems lot more intuitive with better feedback than pre-rework.
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Sounds like the new standard for runes is going to be flat HP or HP per level unless your starting with multiple pots (or built in sustain) then armor is better.
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Then again, just because Riven's dash+shield is pretty stacked (and obnoxious to deal with) doesn't mean every defensive ability in the game should be the same.
Still "slower" than Garen's W that's instant (and provides tenacity rather than slow himself for 1s), though.
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On April 03 2014 23:39 Ketara wrote:
For people wondering about the rune changes and whether or not to pick up armor/level or whatever, I did math on the before and after differences for Lux on the Lux guide.
Going to be a little bit different for other champions obviously, but on Lux it's basically this:
Early game flat armor still the same.
Flat health still bad unless you're going all in at level 1.
Late game Health/level was better before, Armor/level is better now. Or at least I think so. Actually on second thought, HP/level might still be better for late game, I don't fucking know.
Personally for runes I'm going to be buying Armor/Level, Mana regen/level blues, and maybe CDR/level quints.
I did the math for Kog Maw, who's in the middle of the pack for base HP at 18, and a bit low for base armor at 18 (I guess that favors armor). You gain 40% more average EHP from HP per level (331 vs 234) to trade for 20% more physical EHP from armor runes (382 vs 468). Given this is one best case scenario against another that was slightly stacked for armor to begin with (since Kog has less armor than average), I'll be picking up hp/level though obviously in an ideal world you'd probably just pick up both. They're all cheap in any case which is good news.
I want to pick up hybrid runes but IDK if it's worth it, I don't know what junglers take it and the only champ that really needs them as far as I know is AP varus. At the same time I'm picking up all the cdr/level runes for funzies so maybe it doesn't matter.
On April 04 2014 00:00 chalice wrote:
edit: i don't really play him but i actually like the way xerath's new kit works, it seems lot more intuitive with better feedback than pre-rework.
I'm not sure what you mean by "feedback", but when I think of feedback I think of visual/audio artwork that helps to tell you how your abilities work or how Xerath is killing you. I don't think the mechanics part of the rework helped that.
As for more intuitive, sure, yeah, when you make him more boring that's pretty intuitive. Both Gragas and Xerath play like different champions compared to what they were before, it's just more obvious with Gragas. Both were changed for breaking the game (in Riot's opinion), some day they'll get to poppy and sion but at least then we'll expect it.
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Orianna can be a prick in match-ups that let her auto a bunch (like Fizz) with hybrid runes.
I'm running Hybrid Pen and MS quints on Lulu and going ham on people from level 1 (or 2, depending if they're ranged), and Hybrid Pen/AD on Sona. Maybe I should try running Hybrid Pen marks+quints on her to see what deals the most damage.
MS quints non-negociable on lulu though because her goddamn auto and Q animation are so slooooow. Plus it makes it easier to catch up to someone and E them to force a trade in lane.
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Hybrid pen on Kennen always.
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By the by, if Gragas charges his W and then Es into people he will attack the closest target automatically, not whoever you want him to attack or whoever you click on, so you can't W->E people if there's creeps involved.
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On April 04 2014 00:29 phyvo wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "feedback", but when I think of feedback I think of visual/audio artwork that helps to tell you how your abilities work or how Xerath is killing you. I don't think the mechanics part of the rework helped that.
i felt like his E was lacking in this department before.
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On April 04 2014 00:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
By the by, if Gragas charges his W and then Es into people he will attack the closest target automatically, not whoever you want him to attack or whoever you click on, so you can't W->E people if there's creeps involved.
Is it possible to E onto somebody to stun them, channel W while they're stunned, then whack them?
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i'm sure it's possible, but between the E knockback, 1 sec channel time, and the self-slow good luck against any champ more mobile than ashe/syndra.
plus you're disqualifying yourself from using the stun to get a guaranteed Q or R.
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On April 03 2014 14:28 Ketara wrote:
Yeah I don't really understand MF very well but the numbers look like an across the board buff to everything to me.
When I ran the math it looked like Q, W, E were all buffed, and Ult took a minor hit from the nerf bat.
On the flip side, once ult is done, you now have targets with impure stacks on them that you can continue damaging.
I'm excited for this patch to DL so I can try her out, her being my main carry and all.
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On April 04 2014 01:01 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2014 00:58 TwoToneTerran wrote:
By the by, if Gragas charges his W and then Es into people he will attack the closest target automatically, not whoever you want him to attack or whoever you click on, so you can't W->E people if there's creeps involved. Is it possible to E onto somebody to stun them, channel W while they're stunned, then whack them?
Kind of, but you knock them away and it's a short stun. It's awkward and obviously foiled by any sort of movement ability or any ability to interrupt your drinking (lots of characters have these). The problem with this is you can't cast Q after you confirm your E hits when you do this. If you're really confident your E is gonna hit you can Q while you E still but that's like a one in 5 body slams kind of deal.
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EPT
