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On April 03 2014 17:16 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I do not post in here much anymore but I have come to weep and whine over the Gragas changes. He's been my favorite champ for about a year and a half or so now and I only picked him up after Ryze got butchered.
Hopefully the rework isn't too severe, but everything I can see seems like he'll just be another generic shitty bruiser with mana constraints.
And a %max health damage nuke.
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Those gragas changes are a bit heavy handed... we still see him often but he's not really ban worthy nor was he first pick status... probably needed some slight number adjustments, not a butchering
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I honestly don't get the changes to a lot of things. Of course, Riot knows best, nerfing and then reworking a champion because he was strong in a meta that isn't even relevant any more.
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His mana costs have been reduced so he's better off overall I think in terms of mana sustain (depending on how much Qs you cast per pre-change W). His clear shouldn't be too hurt since against creep waves you can let the barrel sit, which assuming also affects the ratio means it'll deal more damage than before (the base being higher after sitting, probably to make up for the fact that he's expected to buy less AP now).
Bodyslam being an AoE 1s stun/knock-back on a dash with less telegraphing than Vi's, and easily combo'd into his Q's MS slow should make him really good at assisting ganks pre-6 (more burst through W too, since at low levels the 1s channel is shorter than the "cooldown" of your autoattack due to AS < 1, you can auto->W->auto without wasting damage).
Of course he still won't explode people as hard, one-shot style.
On April 03 2014 13:03 caelym wrote:
MF's change is kind of underwhelming (if not just straight up bad), right? Her 1v1 got nerfed, and her late game ult scaling doesn't seem that much better.
The main "issue" with her lategame scaling is that the AD ratio from her ult is all magic damage-which I find amusing since Riot was all about readability, but here AP ratio affects physical damage while AD ratio affects magic damage.  Math would need doing, but it's possible the Bullet Time build (BT/LW/BC) doesn't provide such a strong midgame teamfighting now, since she goes from 2.8 bonus AD physical damage to less base and 1.98 to 2.16 total AD magic damage.
+ Show Spoiler [Quick maths] +At level 1 ult she loses 120 + 2.8 bonus AD physical damage and gets 1.98 total AD magic damage instead.
So 120 + 0.82 bonus AD vs 1.98 base AD, at 6 she's got 64.5 base AD so 127.71 damage, meaning with around 10 bonus AD she deals less damage. At level 10 she has ~151 base AD, meaning with around 40 bonus AD she deals less damage. Nerf without even taking the switch from physical to magic into account.
Level 2 ult, she loses 160 + 2.8 bonus AD physical damage and gets 2.1 total AD magic damage, so 160 + 0.7 bonus AD vs 2.1 base AD.
At level 11 she's got 79.5 base AD, ~167 bonus damage, weaker from 10 bonus AD onward. Level 15, 91.5 base AD, 192 bonus damage, beaten by ~45 bonus AD.
Level 3 ult, she trades 2.8 bonus AD physical damage for 2.16 total AD magic damage, so 0.64 bonus AD vs 2.16 base AD.
At level 16 that's 94.5 base AD -> 204 bonus damage -> beaten by ~320 bonus AD.
TL;DR: it's an early game nerf, even if it remained physical damage. It's a buff post-16 on people with around 100 MR or less (since X% magic damage reduction means old MF needs X% less AD to beat current MF). It favours the old version even more if you don't get the full ult.
On the other hand you deal more damage once your ult is over since Impure Shots is "pre-charged". It'll only affect the first one (maybe two) you hit since the debuff will expire before you switch anyway.
Note that without your ult, once W is maxed you need ~200 total AD to beat the base value of the old passive, so you'd better hit your full ult on people you intend to fight because you're weaker otherwise.
As a fun fact, it also means depending on the enemy's physical EHP and your dps, sometimes you're better off starting with ult, sometimes using it as a finisher (since it deals more damage to people who already have stacks).
On April 03 2014 13:21 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 11:52 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On April 03 2014 09:01 Ketara wrote:
Looking at the combat stats of Elder Lizard vs. Feral Flare.
Elder Lizard at level 18 deals 50 true damage per second to targets hit. It also gives 30 AD. 50 true damage over three seconds, not per second In addition, FF gives AS and it's magic damage scales. Something that I found amusing today was that the true damage from Lizard affect Tiamat/Hydra AOE.
They deal physical damage so trigger Lizard's passive.
I wonder how Vi would do with Flare. It's actually stronger than Lizard for her past a point, and it's def better for stuff like solo-ing dragon, since most of her late game dps comes from W (after she's initiation-combo'd a squishy), but it's still weaker for the early game and her first few ganks. Also no mana sustain hurts her clear speed (it doesn't become slow, but it's not lightning-fast anymore).
On April 03 2014 16:24 Baffels wrote:
No pantheon changes, makes me think a "rework" is incoming...
I'm also completely confused on the rengar ultimate, what the hell does alerted mean?
Smash created a feedback thread on NA, no "rework", he just asks for people's opinion so he knows how to nerf him without hitting what people are attached to (eg. don't remove his shield nor make his ult wussfall).
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yeah I think I'll ban master yi every game now. The feral flare is absolutely broken, which was proven on the pbe like 4 weeks ago and they just release it without changes.
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hope they keep urf mode for at least a day after the patch, really want to try out gragas 3 second cd reduction on his E stun
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On April 03 2014 18:09 chalice wrote:
hope they keep urf mode for at least a day after the patch, really want to try out gragas 3 second cd reduction on his E stun
It's nerfed down to 1s in urf, just tried it and now i'm sad :<
Also i read the notes forgetting w still has a channel attached, it feels clunky as hell to have to stop attacking (and walk super slowly) to charge it up. And if you charge it up before you e onto them they just have to sit slightly back for 3s and it's out.
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On April 03 2014 18:15 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:09 chalice wrote:
hope they keep urf mode for at least a day after the patch, really want to try out gragas 3 second cd reduction on his E stun It's nerfed down to 1s in urf, just tried it and now i'm sad :< Also i read the notes forgetting w still has a channel attached, it feels clunky as hell to have to stop attacking (and walk super slowly) to charge it up. And if you charge it up before you e onto them they just have to sit slightly back for 3s and it's out.
can you still combo E-W so that most of the W animation happens during your dash?
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You see what you fuckers did. Riot gone olaf'd gragas now.
Also lol buffing exhaust, i used that shit alot anyway, thanks for letting me shutdown burst champs even harder.
That heal seems a bit muscular now though doesnt it ^^
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I think the only champion I've seen run exhaust in ages is Janna.
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Soo I need to go buy armor/level seals now? 
The ones I have now are hp/lvl, manaregen/lvl, gp10 and flat armor.
Anyone see CDR runes becoming a thing?
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
I don't think armor/level seals are better anyways. Flat armors are fine, because champions got buffed with extra +4 armor. Or maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.
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On April 03 2014 18:39 Omnishroud wrote:
You see what you fuckers did. Riot gone olaf'd gragas now.
Yeah but fuck gragas, only reason i'm not overly annoyed about this was he was super super boring and annoying to lane against. Then just randomly kills someone lategame and wins the game.
On April 03 2014 18:32 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:15 killerdog wrote:On April 03 2014 18:09 chalice wrote:
hope they keep urf mode for at least a day after the patch, really want to try out gragas 3 second cd reduction on his E stun It's nerfed down to 1s in urf, just tried it and now i'm sad :< Also i read the notes forgetting w still has a channel attached, it feels clunky as hell to have to stop attacking (and walk super slowly) to charge it up. And if you charge it up before you e onto them they just have to sit slightly back for 3s and it's out. can you still combo E-W so that most of the W animation happens during your dash?
Not entirely sure what combo you mean, but you can't e during the w charge, and you can't w during the e dash, (which has a new animation btw) so i don't think so.
So time to talk about runes?
Can you afford to swap out scaling health/scaling armour for flat armour as adc? Or is the level two fight too important. Lifesteal quints still? Or just damage quints + rushing vamp. Also AS quints? I think some LCS adc's (rekkles and forg1ven or something?) run attack speed marks, and this might be more efficient now
Mid going scaling health seals? Scaling mr against easier lane matchups/oponents who aren't scary pre 6?
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Just went 23-0 as Wukong in URF, took E and red buff level 1, W level 2 and then just wrecked ez+taric over and over 1v2.
They even had a Hecarim! That gives me 1x win against Hecarim in this game mode, still 0x wins against Sona though.
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On April 03 2014 18:41 GolemMadness wrote:
I think the only champion I've seen run exhaust in ages is Janna.
I sometimes run it on Lulu when their team is so filled with assassins and burst that my ult+crucible may not be enough. When there's a Tryndamere, or Zed+LB solo laners, etc. used it to great effect one game to neuter a fed Wukong's initiations, he still had the cc but didn't drop everyone under half and we could still fight afterwards.
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On April 03 2014 18:58 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Just went 23-0 as Wukong in URF, took E and red buff level 1, W level 2 and then just wrecked ez+taric over and over 1v2.
They even had a Hecarim! That gives me 1x win against Hecarim in this game mode, still 0x wins against Sona though.
I've won against Sona.
I was playing Sona.
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On April 03 2014 19:03 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:41 GolemMadness wrote:
I think the only champion I've seen run exhaust in ages is Janna. I sometimes run it on Lulu when their team is so filled with assassins and burst that my ult+crucible may not be enough. When there's a Tryndamere, or Zed+LB solo laners, etc. used it to great effect one game to neuter a fed Wukong's initiations, he still had the cc but didn't drop everyone under half and we could still fight afterwards.
I've seen karthus' use it, and a shaco once when our lanes had no cc, and the enemy laners had no real inbuilt escapes.
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On April 03 2014 19:06 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2014 18:58 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
Just went 23-0 as Wukong in URF, took E and red buff level 1, W level 2 and then just wrecked ez+taric over and over 1v2.
They even had a Hecarim! That gives me 1x win against Hecarim in this game mode, still 0x wins against Sona though. I've won against Sona. I was playing Sona.
i laned with a sona once, went 25-0 on malphite.
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On April 03 2014 16:19 MooMooMugi wrote:
This patch is going to be huge and its right before LCS playoffs XD
If i understood wicked right (he said something while streaming) the reason this patch is so huge, is that it is the "midseason" patch. Meaning they will play playoffs at the very least on the old patch and give everyone a month to work with this before it goes into an LCS match.
Allstars might be played on this version, but I have my doubts regarding that as well.
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On April 03 2014 18:46 Doctorbeat wrote:Soo I need to go buy armor/level seals now? The ones I have now are hp/lvl, manaregen/lvl, gp10 and flat armor. Anyone see CDR runes becoming a thing?
If your laning against Zed or Yasuo they definitely are a thing. Question is if you have the runepages to run multiple duplicates with cdr instead of MR. If I have an excess of IP (currently missing 12 chars, 10 of those I don't care about and won't buy anyway) I guess I'll invest in those. On the other hand I'm wondering if my support pages should go for hp yellows and start cloth+ward+pots instead. That might be fairly fun on quite a few supports (thresh, Leona)
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EPT
