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United States47024 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:20 Ketara wrote:
The concept of an extra jungle camp in that spot I think is fine, it's the fact that it's only one big monster that's causing problems, IMO.
I think the location exacerbates the problem (the depth and safety of the Wight camp means it acts as a reliable farm point for junglers who are most susceptible to having their jungle taken from them), but I agree it wouldn't be one if the farm provided were less lopsided toward certain junglers.
There's also still the consideration of the XP bonus for a jungler who is lower than average level, which I still think is pretty awkward.
On April 01 2014 01:26 Gahlo wrote:
On the PBE they messed around the time-to-jump and travel time so it was net the same, but you spent less time playing dragonballz. I've read they reverted the longer travel time but haven't heard anything about the channel. Lowering the setup time should be a big enough tradeoff for a higher cooldown imo.
They could keep the current range and have the jump delay scale with your targeting distance so that further jumps require more coordination and setup.
Thematically this makes the most sense because there's not a good reason why it should take the same time for him to jump 5 feet as it does to jump halfway across the map. It would also add more usefulness for very low range Grand Skyfalls that could be used AoE damage/gap closing rather than as a global.
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On April 01 2014 01:29 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 01:20 Ketara wrote:
The concept of an extra jungle camp in that spot I think is fine, it's the fact that it's only one big monster that's causing problems, IMO. I think the location exacerbates the problem (the depth and safety of the Wight camp means it acts as a reliable farm point for junglers who are most susceptible to having their jungle taken from them), but I agree it wouldn't be one if the farm provided were less lopsided toward certain junglers. There's also still the consideration of the XP bonus for a jungler who is lower than average level, which I still think is pretty awkward.
But it's unfun to be a lower level
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On April 01 2014 01:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Isn't it already at 30% on Golem?
Yes, but it's currently 30% on everything iirc. Carry junglers get more out of the 30% because it's compounded by the AP or AD Wraith/Lizard already bring. There are some occasions where tanky junglers get damage out of the health, Sejuani and Naut off the top of my head, but it's nowhere near enough to keep up.
Have to admit, one thing I like about all these carry junglers showing up is I get to pick Vi more.
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Wraith + Show Spoiler + is quite sucky as is, the stacking mechanic is very slow. It hold stuff like Diana, Cho, Fiddle back quite a bit.
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It also holds back purple side bot lane cause you cant go to heal from it while you wait for wave to push unlike golems 
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They should just make wraith spirit do bonus dot true damage on magic damage, similar to how lizard works. The stacking is way too slow and does not work well.
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On April 01 2014 01:40 Gahlo wrote:Yes, but it's currently 30% on everything iirc. Carry junglers get more out of the 30% because it's compounded by the AP or AD Wraith/Lizard already bring. There are some occasions where tanky junglers get damage out of the health, Sejuani and Naut off the top of my head, but it's nowhere near enough to keep up. Have to admit, one thing I like about all these carry junglers showing up is I get to pick Vi more.
I mean the obvious problem is that if you build damage jungle item is that it snowballs how fast you can clear the camp. Not only do you get the increased damage passive of spirit items, you also get the ad damage augment on top of that. Golem would have to be augmented to like 50% bonus dmg to stay equal to SotEL clear speed.
EDIT: not saying that's what Riot should do, but just bringing it up to show clear speed issue.
they could just make it so SotAG can hold more stacks, and uses up more stacks when clearing big minion. like 120 max stacks, uses 60 each time.
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Nah they should make it flike frostline gp5 so burst casters can jungle too.
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France45622 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:04 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 00:45 Alzadar wrote:
What do people think of Nidalee these days. I really hate playing with or against her, she has this funny interaction where "she's good until she's bad", meaning your team does fine as long as the Nidalee is landing occasional spears, but as soon as a minute goes by without a spear connecting (nothing to do with Nidalee's skill, all about the enemy paying meticulous attention), you get wrecked. my personal opinion is shes one of the worst heroes in the game, if she hits spears she does damage, if she doesnt she provides almost nothing outside of her heal
Already pointed out the power of her AS buff for tower taking (esp. now that Nunu isn't popular anymore), the huge 40 goddamn % resistances shred on her traps from the first second contrary to Trundle's ult and for 8 seconds while providing vision too.
Just because it doesn't deal 500 damage on a 3s cd as a point'n'click spell doesn't mean it's not really powerful if you can set some up.
On April 01 2014 01:13 TheYango wrote:
Or just remove the Wight camp.
Riot just can't seem to get the asymmetrical balance of gank jungle vs. farm jungle right. The Wight gives more farming power specifically to single-target junglers, but by nature of their kits, almost all of said junglers are better gankers while the AoE junglers are better farmers. So suddenly you get a scenario where ganking power does not demand as much of a sacrifice in farming power as previously was the case, which throws of your gank/farm balance in the jungle entirely.
This isn't the first time the gank/farm balance in the jungle has been completely awful either.
The mana sustain is closer to the problem along with the %damage increase from the jungle items I think. Wukong and Pantheon didn't clear fast at all before because they'd go oom super fast without having very good AoE. Now that more HP has been put on the big monsters their AoE is good enough to clear the little ones while they finish off the big one.
Pantheon actually doesn't kill the Wight that fast. Another problem is that it's a single-monster camp: even if you steal it, you can't leave something to prevent it from respawning and gimp your opponent. I sometimes steal it when I'm nearby, but most of the time it's because smite is up and my conservation stacks are almost maxed. If I could steal a huge rewad camp while letting some little thing to prevent its respawn I'd have more of an incentive to take it when I see the enemy jungler on the other side of the map.
Another thing helping Pantheon and Wukong (I don't know if it helps J4/Xin much though, nor how Kha would fare without it) is the mana regen from previously the 14 mp5 and now Butcher. They use their spells a bunch and they aren't free. On the other hand nerfing that would make Lee and Elise even more prominent and put junglers like Hecarim, Nautilus or Maokai in an even worse spot.
On April 01 2014 01:22 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 01:20 cLutZ wrote:On April 01 2014 01:06 Ketara wrote:
The other issue with Pantheons ult is it has a much lower rank 1 cooldown compared to similar globals.
Karthus: 200/180/160
Shen: 200/180/160
Twisted Fate: 180/150/120
Nocturne: 180/140/110
Soraka: 160/145/130
Pantheon: 150/135/120
Not sure why they don't just up his ult CD to 180/150/120 if they want to hit his ult. Personally I find the long CD ultz a bit distasteful and clunky. But that's just a personal design choice. I think Karthus R could use a CD reduction on rank 3. So does Soraka. But if you reduce Nocturne's s CD on rank 3 by any more he will be hilariously broken.
Teamfights and grouping start way before Noc's level 16 and it's not a very good teamfight spell unless you manage to force a fight in the jungle or spread them a bunch.
Also the bonus gold is so fucking retarded, get 2 levels ahead? Nope, they catch up in only ~1 minute of constant clearing zzz.
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France45622 Posts
Better now? I pressed tab instead of a, my bad for making you worry.
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loving tristana with her mana free Q and my next level cutlass-shiv-IE build path. the cutlass active does a nice job of enhancing her all-in potential during laning, then you just obliterate creep waves and get away safely before the other team can react during her "weak midgame" with E and shiv splash. do ad carries even do anything in midgame other than push waves and towers?
always been intrigued by statikk shiv pushing on tristana since i first saw it because it's turning her E splash into an asset rather than just something people complain about because it messes up their cs. straight rushing it seems questionable though because buying avarice blade/zeal as your first items seems like suicide on a champ that needs to all-in.
not having to choose between spending mana on Q or your other skills seems like a noticeable quality of life buff too.
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if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness.
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On April 01 2014 03:47 wei2coolman wrote:
if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness.
Hes not getting botrk fast, just the cutlass for some ad/lifesteal (cutlass isnt that much gold over just vamp). This lets you get shiv fast while not having time where you cant last hit under tower, and once you get shiv you just turn lane into farm lane.
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On April 01 2014 04:05 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 03:47 wei2coolman wrote:
if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness. Hes not getting botrk fast, just the cutlass for some ad/lifesteal (cutlass isnt that much gold over just vamp). This lets you get shiv fast while not having time where you cant last hit under tower, and once you get shiv you just turn lane into farm lane.
if you're looking to turn it into a farm lane, cutlass not really necessary imo.
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So I kinda skipped over Yasuo when he came out first - I was just barely getting into league at the time. Mainly I thought he was mega bullshit hehe.
Went through the free week playing a lot of him, started off feeding hard ("Xerath hard counters Yasuo" - Me, last tuesday), got the hang of him on Friday and finally now am comfortable with him, thank you based team builder, enough to feel that I can carry games given a reasonable lane. He is ridiculous amounts of fun but definitely a certainlyT champ - his kit does a billion different things , it was hard to get used to that starting out and now it feels like my opponents just have a lot to deal with (the fucking wall though)
Is Yasuo considered to be in a good place right now, balance wise? On release he was pretty over tuned but he seems to be less and less banned in high level ranked from just watching streams. Also who does Yasuo do well in lane vs? Is it really everyone minus Riven?
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On April 01 2014 00:28 cLutZ wrote:
I don't understand how any of her 2v1 issues are not also 2v2 issues that indicate general weakness as a character.
Agreed. In fact I think that her 2v1 is much better than her 2v2. Because you can level w easier for its prodigious level up bonuses is probably more potent than her 2v2. Janna isn't bad with a w max (in fact she was better w max in season 3 in many situations) but you can't afford it in today's 2v2.
Specifically w max is potent when you're ahead because it increases Janna's move speed and slow which increases her engage threat significantly. Even with the massive Nerf to the skill it still has, by far, the highest combination of stats on any of her abilities.
But how often can you pick Janna with an adc that will straight up win lane while you're also able to actually bully the enemy?
On April 01 2014 04:10 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 04:05 dae wrote:On April 01 2014 03:47 wei2coolman wrote:
if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness. Hes not getting botrk fast, just the cutlass for some ad/lifesteal (cutlass isnt that much gold over just vamp). This lets you get shiv fast while not having time where you cant last hit under tower, and once you get shiv you just turn lane into farm lane. if you're looking to turn it into a farm lane, cutlass not really necessary imo.
It's pretty cheap for its active and life steal though. Even if you're going to turn a lane into a farm lane all in potential lets that happen easier.
I mean people don't build BT first because they're not planning on having a farm lane till three items but because if they go BT first and you don't they can turn it into a snowball lane against you. Same concept but cutlass is cheaper than BT.
Edit: basically if you want shiv first for pushing reasons would you actually build it first? Zeal or avarice first item? Somehow I doubt those would look good.
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Yasuo is particularly strong vs Nidalee. He smashes Nidalee so hard pre6 it is not even funny. He is also fairly strong vs skillshot champions such as Ziggs, but I suspect you know this already.
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On April 01 2014 04:10 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 04:05 dae wrote:On April 01 2014 03:47 wei2coolman wrote:
if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness. Hes not getting botrk fast, just the cutlass for some ad/lifesteal (cutlass isnt that much gold over just vamp). This lets you get shiv fast while not having time where you cant last hit under tower, and once you get shiv you just turn lane into farm lane. if you're looking to turn it into a farm lane, cutlass not really necessary imo.
i'm going full zuna anytime my support does anything useful in lane and getting an extra 100 magic damage makes a difference in those all-ins. with the lifesteal, the active, and the fact that she has a 0.0 ad ratio on her skills i'm not sure cutlass fares poorly compared to an early bf sword for 150g less.
like if your behind and can't all-in there's a good argument for skipping cutlass, but in that situation you're probably gonna need lifesteal anyway.
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On April 01 2014 04:51 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2014 04:10 wei2coolman wrote:On April 01 2014 04:05 dae wrote:On April 01 2014 03:47 wei2coolman wrote:
if you're getting BotRK first, I don't think you should be getting shiv. It misses it's power curve and usefulness. Hes not getting botrk fast, just the cutlass for some ad/lifesteal (cutlass isnt that much gold over just vamp). This lets you get shiv fast while not having time where you cant last hit under tower, and once you get shiv you just turn lane into farm lane. if you're looking to turn it into a farm lane, cutlass not really necessary imo. i'm going full zuna anytime my support does anything useful in lane and getting an extra 100 magic damage makes a difference in those all-ins. with the lifesteal, the active, and the fact that she has a 0.0 ad ratio on her skills i'm not sure cutlass fares poorly compared to an early bf sword for 150g less. like if your behind and can't all-in there's a good argument for skipping cutlass, but in that situation you're probably gonna need lifesteal anyway.
Skip cutlass. Use vamp sceptre as stop gap measure and finish shiv imo. Or go straight to botrk.
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EPT
