EPT[Patch 4.4] CUDDLY INCOMING! ヽ(*・ω・)ﾉ - Page 127
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On April 01 2014 00:03 Sufficiency wrote: I wonder what would happen if Riot simply nerfed Pantheon's Q damage vs monsters. I don't think there's even a problem with Pantheon. He seems like he's in a fine spot right now. The main issue I see is Riot's philosphy in how gold should be used and how it is used is two completely different things. They seem to think gold now should be used to power later where as the way people use gold is for power right now. It's the most effective way to use gold/advantages. Their jungle changes were made to put more gold in the jungle to allow "carry junglers". The changes did exactly that, it's just that isn't what they thought carry junglers were. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Halving the range on it wasn't the right solution though (obviously) Pantheon non-ult ganks aren't particularly scary compared to other junglers. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 01 2014 00:52 Numy wrote: I don't think there's even a problem with Pantheon. He seems like he's in a fine spot right now. The main issue I see is Riot's philosphy in how gold should be used and how it is used is two completely different things. They seem to think gold now should be used to power later where as the way people use gold is for power right now. It's the most effective way to use gold/advantages. Their jungle changes were made to put more gold in the jungle to allow "carry junglers". The changes did exactly that, it's just that isn't what they thought carry junglers were. I thought the whole issue with Pantheon is his ult ganks being too strong while jungling. You can't ward against him like you can with TF. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On April 01 2014 00:45 Alzadar wrote: What do people think of Nidalee these days. I really hate playing with or against her, she has this funny interaction where "she's good until she's bad", meaning your team does fine as long as the Nidalee is landing occasional spears, but as soon as a minute goes by without a spear connecting (nothing to do with Nidalee's skill, all about the enemy paying meticulous attention), you get wrecked. my personal opinion is shes one of the worst heroes in the game, if she hits spears she does damage, if she doesnt she provides almost nothing outside of her heal | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:04 arb wrote: my personal opinion is shes one of the worst heroes in the game, if she hits spears she does damage, if she doesnt she provides almost nothing outside of her heal Pretty sure that's never changed (unless I'm unaware of any significant nerfs?). It's just that Lich Bane was bonkers. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Karthus: 200/180/160 Shen: 200/180/160 Twisted Fate: 180/150/120 Nocturne: 180/140/110 Soraka: 160/145/130 Pantheon: 150/135/120 Not sure why they don't just up his ult CD to 180/150/120 if they want to hit his ult. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On April 01 2014 00:04 TheYango wrote: That would have made too much sense. Presumably his AoE does more dmg to champions than minions to prevent jungling/waveclear; but then Riot was like "hey we want more single target damage in our jungle" and now they're like "oh wait no we didn't" Easiest way to nerf Pantheon/Lee/Elise in one swoop is to make all the camps like 5 medium strength dogs. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Riot just can't seem to get the asymmetrical balance of gank jungle vs. farm jungle right. The Wight gives more farming power specifically to single-target junglers, but by nature of their kits, almost all of said junglers are better gankers while the AoE junglers are better farmers. So suddenly you get a scenario where ganking power does not demand as much of a sacrifice in farming power as previously was the case, which throws of your gank/farm balance in the jungle entirely. This isn't the first time the gank/farm balance in the jungle has been completely awful either. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:06 Ketara wrote: The other issue with Pantheons ult is it has a much lower rank 1 cooldown compared to similar globals. Karthus: 200/180/160 Shen: 200/180/160 Twisted Fate: 180/150/120 Nocturne: 180/140/110 Soraka: 160/145/130 Pantheon: 150/135/120 Not sure why they don't just up his ult CD to 180/150/120 if they want to hit his ult. Because if Pantheon doesn't do anything early game, he is dead weight. Not sure why they're surprised that Pantheon is doing things early game. edit: what yango says below too | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
The 2000 range thing was not a good idea, I'm sure we can all agree. Alternatively, make it so it can't be cancelled. Pantheon is a real man, men don't cancel ults. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:13 TheYango wrote: Or just remove the Wight camp. Riot just can't seem to get the asymmetrical balance of gank jungle vs. farm jungle right. The Wight gives more farming power specifically to single-target junglers, but by nature of their kits, almost all of said junglers are better gankers while the AoE junglers are better farmers. So suddenly you get a scenario where ganking power does not demand as much of a sacrifice in farming power as previously was the case, which throws of your gank/farm balance in the jungle entirely. This isn't the first time the gank/farm balance in the jungle has been completely awful either. i'm curious as to just how much of an impact the wight camp has, is there a longer analysis on this anywhere? | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:06 Ketara wrote: The other issue with Pantheons ult is it has a much lower rank 1 cooldown compared to similar globals. Karthus: 200/180/160 Shen: 200/180/160 Twisted Fate: 180/150/120 Nocturne: 180/140/110 Soraka: 160/145/130 Pantheon: 150/135/120 Not sure why they don't just up his ult CD to 180/150/120 if they want to hit his ult. Personally I find the long CD ultz a bit distasteful and clunky. But that's just a personal design choice. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:20 cLutZ wrote: Personally I find the long CD ultz a bit distasteful and clunky. But that's just a personal design choice. I think Karthus R could use a CD reduction on rank 3. So does Soraka. But if you reduce Nocturne's s CD on rank 3 by any more he will be hilariously broken. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23461 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:23 Slayer91 wrote: I'd prefer if they removed the wight camp too, I hate to pull the wraith card but it discriminates against the more tanky junglers. wat a god | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On April 01 2014 01:15 TheYango wrote: Presumably the CD is shorter by nature of the actual spell effect being less reliable (Shen, Karthus, and Soraka ults are true globals and can't miss, TF has a much shorter teleport delay, and Nocturne's is targeted). In theory it's easier to fuck up a Grand Skyfall so I guess they wanted it to be less punishing to whiff one. On the PBE they messed around the time-to-jump and travel time so it was net the same, but you spent less time playing dragonballz. I've read they reverted the longer travel time but haven't heard anything about the channel. Lowering the setup time should be a big enough tradeoff for a higher cooldown imo. On April 01 2014 01:23 Slayer91 wrote: I'd prefer if they removed the wight camp too, I hate to pull the wraith card but it discriminates against the more tanky junglers. God Bless. Or increase the damage to monsters on Golem Spirit could be a decent out. Currently they are looking to lower it on Lizard, but that's really only a half measure. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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