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On March 06 2014 12:08 Ketara wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Diversity is good, but infinite diversity is not necessarily infinitely good.
If you want your game to be popular with everyone, you have to find that line where it has the right amount of complexity and diversity so that everyone will enjoy it.
I disagree that there is some diversity cap that is still balanced yet inaccessible, but even taking that postulate as given, you can't say that the current Riot design space is erring too far on the side of complexity to the detriment of accessibility.
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For me Power spike = usually lvl6/9/11/13
while item = timing
although I guess lucky kills can lead to stuff like totally bonkers TF/BT timings in which case power spike might also be more accurate, personal preferences will prevail obviously
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On March 06 2014 12:12 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2014 12:08 Ketara wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Diversity is good, but infinite diversity is not necessarily infinitely good.
If you want your game to be popular with everyone, you have to find that line where it has the right amount of complexity and diversity so that everyone will enjoy it. I disagree that there is some diversity cap that is still balanced yet inaccessible, but even taking that postulate as given, you can't say that the current Riot design space is erring too far on the side of complexity to the detriment of accessibility.
I think they're making the game more and more complex, but they're doing it by designing champions like Yasuo who are very complicated, not by increasing the complexity of mana management.
There are a lot of things they could do to make the game more complex that I would like to see, personally.
I'd like to see pick/bans in ranked 5's be more like the DotA format, which I know Yango is a big proponent of. Not sure I'd want to see it in solo queue but for ranked 5's I think it'd be great.
I'd like to see more diversity in terms of overall champion team strategy. I'd like to see teams with no ADC be more viable. I'd like to see double bruiser bot lanes be more viable. I'd like to see cheesy all mid tower rush strats be more viable.
I'd like to see more top level champion diversity in general.
More complicated mana management however is one that I really just don't care about. I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I can certainly see the logic behind why Riot appears to be against it.
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On March 06 2014 12:07 Chrispy wrote:
Support Galio, so sex. Just need a good mana item... RoA maybe?
Mana item + Galio just screams Chalice. Then you can decide later if you need a Mikael's or Athene's. Or you could just sit on Chalice, Galio bought that item before it even had an upgrade.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, if we're talking about complexity, the fact that there even exist other modes of resource management other than mana could be seen as needless complexity.
The beauty of mana as a system as it exists in games like LoL, DotA, or other RPGs is that its infinitely flexible. By tuning the parameters of regeneration, maximum mana, ability costs, and availability of stats, you can span the entire spectrum with regard to short- and long-term resource limitations. There's no reason you'd actually need to use anything else if you properly tune the parameters on mana for each champion. Systems like Energy, Flow, Fury, and Heat are arguably just adding complexity without adding depth because mana as a resource already spans the entire range of resource management modes.
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I actually would be somewhat fine with it if characters used HP as a resource instead of mana, then there'd be a tradeoff. For example making all of Garen's skills cost HP(and balance him around that).
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Yeah, I could agree that multiple types of resource management add needless complexity. They also add balance problems because then suddenly you have items that have widely different power levels for different champions and become hard to balance, etc.
I would much rather that every champion have mana, or that no champions have a mana resource at all, personally.
But that's the sort of thing that you need to make a decision on when you first make the game. At the point the game is now up and saying "Every champion will have mana now!" is no longer possible, it's too large a change.
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you know that already exists right? (health resource)
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On March 06 2014 12:27 Shikyo wrote:
I actually would be somewhat fine with it if characters used HP as a resource instead of mana, then there'd be a tradeoff. For example making all of Garen's skills cost HP(and balance him around that).
Zac and Morde and Aatrox?
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On March 06 2014 12:29 Slusher wrote:
you know that already exists right? (health resource)
Of course, I guess I should have said that all cooldown-based champions should do that.
Then again there's Vladimir. I think Tryndamere had it done properly but then they remade him.
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United States17042 Posts
On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing. Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say  Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot.
....
er.
pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler
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7-3 provisional...I landed in Silver II. Gah.
Now let's see if I can actually hit gold with Noc...
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On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing. Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot. .... er. pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler
Do we? DO WE REALLY?
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On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing. Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot. .... er. pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler
Ghostclaw confirmed for scumbag destroying LoL's balance.
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are you supposed to lose the hp you gained in fountain when you cancel a buy?
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Hong Kong9179 Posts
On March 06 2014 12:46 Omnishroud wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing. Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot. .... er. pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler Ghostclaw confirmed for scumbag destroying LoL's balance.
harder than brood war he said
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On March 06 2014 12:50 Nos- wrote:
are you supposed to lose the hp you gained in fountain when you cancel a buy?
This has happened to me too since this patch, I think it's a bug.
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Health as a resource has issues because you easily get trapped into an awkward decision matrix of "i need to use skills to fight but using them makes me die" - note that Mundo has his heavy regen to play around that, Vlad has Q, and Morde has issues passive shield.
Note that all 3 of these champions have been notoriously difficult to balance.
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whoever is reindeer on league, i was the ezreal that game, wassup?
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that was me, had 3 support mains on our team. both solo lanes were support players soo that was a lost cause
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EPT
