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[Patch 4.3] Vel'Koz General Discussion - Page 58

Forum Index > LoL General
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EU LCS Week 8 Review
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
March 06 2014 03:12 GMT
#1141
On March 06 2014 12:08 Ketara wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Diversity is good, but infinite diversity is not necessarily infinitely good.

If you want your game to be popular with everyone, you have to find that line where it has the right amount of complexity and diversity so that everyone will enjoy it.

I disagree that there is some diversity cap that is still balanced yet inaccessible, but even taking that postulate as given, you can't say that the current Riot design space is erring too far on the side of complexity to the detriment of accessibility.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:14:58
March 06 2014 03:14 GMT
#1142
For me Power spike = usually lvl6/9/11/13
while item = timing

although I guess lucky kills can lead to stuff like totally bonkers TF/BT timings in which case power spike might also be more accurate, personal preferences will prevail obviously
Carrilord has arrived.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:19:39
March 06 2014 03:19 GMT
#1143
On March 06 2014 12:12 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 12:08 Ketara wrote:
Yeah pretty much. Diversity is good, but infinite diversity is not necessarily infinitely good.

If you want your game to be popular with everyone, you have to find that line where it has the right amount of complexity and diversity so that everyone will enjoy it.

I disagree that there is some diversity cap that is still balanced yet inaccessible, but even taking that postulate as given, you can't say that the current Riot design space is erring too far on the side of complexity to the detriment of accessibility.


I think they're making the game more and more complex, but they're doing it by designing champions like Yasuo who are very complicated, not by increasing the complexity of mana management.

There are a lot of things they could do to make the game more complex that I would like to see, personally.

I'd like to see pick/bans in ranked 5's be more like the DotA format, which I know Yango is a big proponent of. Not sure I'd want to see it in solo queue but for ranked 5's I think it'd be great.

I'd like to see more diversity in terms of overall champion team strategy. I'd like to see teams with no ADC be more viable. I'd like to see double bruiser bot lanes be more viable. I'd like to see cheesy all mid tower rush strats be more viable.

I'd like to see more top level champion diversity in general.

More complicated mana management however is one that I really just don't care about. I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but I can certainly see the logic behind why Riot appears to be against it.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
March 06 2014 03:22 GMT
#1144
On March 06 2014 12:07 Chrispy wrote:
Support Galio, so sex. Just need a good mana item... RoA maybe?




Mana item + Galio just screams Chalice. Then you can decide later if you need a Mikael's or Athene's. Or you could just sit on Chalice, Galio bought that item before it even had an upgrade.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:25:59
March 06 2014 03:25 GMT
#1145
I mean, if we're talking about complexity, the fact that there even exist other modes of resource management other than mana could be seen as needless complexity.

The beauty of mana as a system as it exists in games like LoL, DotA, or other RPGs is that its infinitely flexible. By tuning the parameters of regeneration, maximum mana, ability costs, and availability of stats, you can span the entire spectrum with regard to short- and long-term resource limitations. There's no reason you'd actually need to use anything else if you properly tune the parameters on mana for each champion. Systems like Energy, Flow, Fury, and Heat are arguably just adding complexity without adding depth because mana as a resource already spans the entire range of resource management modes.
Moderator
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:29:32
March 06 2014 03:27 GMT
#1146
I actually would be somewhat fine with it if characters used HP as a resource instead of mana, then there'd be a tradeoff. For example making all of Garen's skills cost HP(and balance him around that).
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 06 2014 03:29 GMT
#1147
Yeah, I could agree that multiple types of resource management add needless complexity. They also add balance problems because then suddenly you have items that have widely different power levels for different champions and become hard to balance, etc.

I would much rather that every champion have mana, or that no champions have a mana resource at all, personally.

But that's the sort of thing that you need to make a decision on when you first make the game. At the point the game is now up and saying "Every champion will have mana now!" is no longer possible, it's too large a change.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:30:40
March 06 2014 03:29 GMT
#1148
you know that already exists right? (health resource)
Carrilord has arrived.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 03:38:38
March 06 2014 03:38 GMT
#1149
On March 06 2014 12:27 Shikyo wrote:
I actually would be somewhat fine with it if characters used HP as a resource instead of mana, then there'd be a tradeoff. For example making all of Garen's skills cost HP(and balance him around that).


Zac and Morde and Aatrox?
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
March 06 2014 03:38 GMT
#1150
On March 06 2014 12:29 Slusher wrote:
you know that already exists right? (health resource)

Of course, I guess I should have said that all cooldown-based champions should do that.

Then again there's Vladimir. I think Tryndamere had it done properly but then they remade him.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
March 06 2014 03:41 GMT
#1151
On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing.


Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say

Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot.


....

er.
pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 06 2014 03:45 GMT
#1152
7-3 provisional...I landed in Silver II. Gah.

Now let's see if I can actually hit gold with Noc...
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
March 06 2014 03:46 GMT
#1153
On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:
On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing.


Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say

Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot.


....

er.
pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler

Do we? DO WE REALLY?
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Omnishroud
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
1073 Posts
March 06 2014 03:46 GMT
#1154
On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:
On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing.


Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say

Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot.


....

er.
pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler


Ghostclaw confirmed for scumbag destroying LoL's balance.
Omni = Capped (RIP TL Account) - LoL EUW: Capped92 - EU Bnet: Capped#1137 - Steam: Capped92
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
March 06 2014 03:50 GMT
#1155
are you supposed to lose the hp you gained in fountain when you cancel a buy?
Bronze player stuck in platinum
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9179 Posts
March 06 2014 03:59 GMT
#1156
On March 06 2014 12:46 Omnishroud wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 12:41 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
On March 06 2014 04:34 Disengaged wrote:
On March 05 2014 21:25 schmutttt wrote:
Remember when they tried to make Garen more 'late game'? I'd argue that was a nerf. Will be really sad if they wreck lee, will also make a lot of people further question their balancing.


Since Ghostclaw is working for Riot now(he came from Blizzard) hes going to ruin LoL with his balancing powers muahahahahahahahahaha. Sabotage I say

Jokes aside I don't even know if hes doing anything in terms of balancing but it was pretty common to blame Ghostclaw for ruining the balance of WoW pvp and whatnot.


....

er.
pretty sure you mean ghostcrawler


Ghostclaw confirmed for scumbag destroying LoL's balance.


harder than brood war he said
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
March 06 2014 04:02 GMT
#1157
On March 06 2014 12:50 Nos- wrote:
are you supposed to lose the hp you gained in fountain when you cancel a buy?


This has happened to me too since this patch, I think it's a bug.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
March 06 2014 04:08 GMT
#1158
Health as a resource has issues because you easily get trapped into an awkward decision matrix of "i need to use skills to fight but using them makes me die" - note that Mundo has his heavy regen to play around that, Vlad has Q, and Morde has issues passive shield.

Note that all 3 of these champions have been notoriously difficult to balance.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
March 06 2014 04:12 GMT
#1159
whoever is reindeer on league, i was the ezreal that game, wassup?
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
March 06 2014 04:15 GMT
#1160
that was me, had 3 support mains on our team. both solo lanes were support players soo that was a lost cause
I come in for the scraps
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