• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:47
CEST 11:47
KST 18:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?131Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Broodwar Prediction Market BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Terran or Protoss
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro16 Group B Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6888 users

PBE Discussion Thread - Page 8

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 17 Next All
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
March 04 2014 01:22 GMT
#141
Keep in mind that the 8% max mana ratio includes base mana. Kass has 1040 at level 18 so new Kass gets another 83 base damage for free.

IDK, playing around with new Kass he feels really weird, I don't have a handle on him.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 04 2014 05:42 GMT
#142
On March 04 2014 10:22 phyvo wrote:
Keep in mind that the 8% max mana ratio includes base mana. Kass has 1040 at level 18 so new Kass gets another 83 base damage for free.

IDK, playing around with new Kass he feels really weird, I don't have a handle on him.

I know but I don't play Kass, so I don't know what his current or future standard build will be to convert it.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
March 04 2014 07:39 GMT
#143
So Kass now has a Viktor Q? Is that essentially how it works?
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 04 2014 08:11 GMT
#144
On March 04 2014 16:39 JazzVortical wrote:
So Kass now has a Viktor Q? Is that essentially how it works?

Pretty much, except the shield functions more like the shield from hexdrinker/maw.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
March 04 2014 09:54 GMT
#145
On March 04 2014 17:11 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 04 2014 16:39 JazzVortical wrote:
So Kass now has a Viktor Q? Is that essentially how it works?

Pretty much, except the shield functions more like the shield from hexdrinker/maw.

Whoah I completely missed that it was only magic damage. Very interesting. Guess it carves out his niche more.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 04 2014 15:26 GMT
#146
New Kass is very fluid of a kit. It makes a lot of sense within itself (which is just like old Kass, and maybe is a problem considering all the champs with idiotic kits that make very little sense). THe PBE is terrible for balance testing, but it seems to me that all 3 of the AD mids (Talon, Khazix, Zed) are now officially hard counters to Kassadin. I've lost lane handily to any of those that I have faced, and only when I was able to get a few midgame picks was I able to bring it back in 2 games vs. Zeds who were pretty bad.
Freeeeeeedom
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
March 04 2014 21:07 GMT
#147
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/27519-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-3-4-2014-elise
Elise hit across the board, the wheel of kassadin spun again and adjustments made in preparation for lich bane nerfs.
Glorious SEA doto
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 05 2014 16:11 GMT
#148
Updatededed.
phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 17:27:39
March 05 2014 17:25 GMT
#149
I'm not a fan of the kass changes, but for different reasons. Previously Kass actually felt stupidly mobile, you could easily ult 6-8 times and with current W you refill your mana really fast. The mobility was too much and Q didn't feel that satisfying to use, but it seemed like an interesting take on Kass. Now though they've gone halfway between live Kass and what they had before and IMO this Kass is probably just a nerfed version of live Kass. Having the the ult cost double seems to me to be a clunky way of saying "you're never going to ult again within 12 seconds after your fifth ult" and the dangling mana ratio on it doesn't feel right even though it's probably there to slow down his snowballing compared to an AP ratio (like a total AD ratio vs bonus AD). IDK, if it wasn't for W mana restore I'd say it was an outright nerf compared to live.

Q also needs feedback that lets you know it *can* interupt channels, a mini-silence like Talon E. Only needs to be one tenth of a second so you can see the silence icon pop up. Currently it's completely invisible and that's not readable for the opponent, I can hardly tell I what I did myself. Such a short silence would not prevent people from countering Kass harass so I think it's safe.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 05 2014 19:58 GMT
#150
On March 06 2014 02:25 phyvo wrote:
I'm not a fan of the kass changes, but for different reasons. Previously Kass actually felt stupidly mobile, you could easily ult 6-8 times and with current W you refill your mana really fast. The mobility was too much and Q didn't feel that satisfying to use, but it seemed like an interesting take on Kass. Now though they've gone halfway between live Kass and what they had before and IMO this Kass is probably just a nerfed version of live Kass. Having the the ult cost double seems to me to be a clunky way of saying "you're never going to ult again within 12 seconds after your fifth ult" and the dangling mana ratio on it doesn't feel right even though it's probably there to slow down his snowballing compared to an AP ratio (like a total AD ratio vs bonus AD). IDK, if it wasn't for W mana restore I'd say it was an outright nerf compared to live.

Q also needs feedback that lets you know it *can* interupt channels, a mini-silence like Talon E. Only needs to be one tenth of a second so you can see the silence icon pop up. Currently it's completely invisible and that's not readable for the opponent, I can hardly tell I what I did myself. Such a short silence would not prevent people from countering Kass harass so I think it's safe.

I'm inclined to agree. I was hoping he'd end up with a drasticly weaker ult, but have the mana scaling cause him to fall into a tankier AP/mana type build like Ryze.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 05 2014 20:22 GMT
#151
Gonna update after I get back form an errand.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 20:25:30
March 05 2014 20:23 GMT
#152
Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 20:26:22
March 05 2014 20:24 GMT
#153
I fail at micro
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
March 05 2014 21:03 GMT
#154
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote:
Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.

Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
March 05 2014 21:05 GMT
#155
On March 06 2014 06:03 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote:
Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.

Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)

Also tbf she got hit with a ton of nerfs, they just weren't enough to kill her popularity in the Jungle.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 05 2014 21:12 GMT
#156
On March 06 2014 06:03 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote:
Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.

Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)

Let the rage fill you.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-05 21:18:12
March 05 2014 21:17 GMT
#157
http://www.reignofgaming.net/news/27528-unofficial-pbe-patch-notes-for-3-5-2014-sivir
TP buffed, lots of mana costs removed like kebabs (Irelia and tristana in particular). Lots of koggles changes, wheel of kassadin spun again and vi ult CD nerfed, Q lower bases, slightly better scaling.
Glorious SEA doto
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
March 05 2014 21:33 GMT
#158
Irelia W costing 0 mana sounds broken.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
March 05 2014 22:14 GMT
#159
Updated.
Poll: Do you want my opinions in the OP?

Yes. (3)
 
38%

No. (4)
 
50%

Indifferent (1)
 
13%

8 total votes

Your vote: Do you want my opinions in the OP?

(Vote): Yes.
(Vote): No.
(Vote): Indifferent

phyvo
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5635 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-06 01:58:58
March 06 2014 01:57 GMT
#160
I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.

Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.

And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
"BE A MANGO TO SLEEP LIKE A SNORING TIGER" - Monte
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 973
Soulkey 268
Killer 94
Stork 93
Shinee 88
Soma 87
sorry 83
Yoon 38
Barracks 32
soO 31
[ Show more ]
NaDa 30
Hm[arnc] 21
Free 17
SilentControl 11
JulyZerg 10
Noble 9
Dota 2
XcaliburYe376
ODPixel291
canceldota82
League of Legends
JimRising 444
Other Games
singsing1201
crisheroes237
Pyrionflax224
Hui .146
KnowMe116
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 22
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2351
League of Legends
• Jankos1492
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
13m
WardiTV Invitational
1h 13m
Cure vs Zoun
SHIN vs Classic
ByuN vs MaxPax
Percival vs YoungYakov
AI Arena Tournament
7h 13m
OSC
10h 43m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 1h
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
1d 5h
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
1d 6h
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
1d 8h
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.