EPTOne of few things that will make me go rita plz over and over.
[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 96
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
One of few things that will make me go rita plz over and over. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 24 2014 19:29 Alaric wrote: Not sold on Mordekaiser (and somewhat Cho'Gath, depends on how much AP he builds, also pre-passive nerf he'd outsustain Swain's mana when pushing), sure he lacks burst in lane but he can permapush you, and even if he doesn't roam he'll just outfarm you by taking wraiths and stuff while you're under tower. His E outranges you so if he plays it right he'll just force you to the side (or he'll hit the wave+you) and use the range to generate shield without putting himself in a vulnerable position. Both your ults are meant to make you unkillable too so it tends not to lead anywhere. I have played the Mordekaiser vs Swain match up many times, both as Morde and as Swain. Even though Swain has very little waveclear he will crush Morde in lane. Pre 6 Swain can just charge at you whenever you try to CS and bully you really hard with his EQ. Normally you can sort of wait until jungler ganks for you, but as Morde if you don't push you don't get shield... and you will get zoned. Post 6 all Mordekaiser can do is try to push. Mordekaiser's Q and W are melee range, and himself is melee without gapclosers. If you try to engage Swain will QW you and kite you for days (and you will die). You can't really poke Swain post 6 because Swain has sustain. All you can do is try to push and hope the Swain is either too pussy to charge at you like before or is running out of mana. The situation with Chogath is similar. Pre 6 he bullies you for days. Post 6 you can't kill him because he will kite you. Swain has sustain and you can't really poke him. All you can do is hope he runs out of mana. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:07 Lord Tolkien wrote: Hybrid pen is probably getting a nerf for that reason. Too stronk on too many champs early game. Midlaners, champions like Elise, etc. Anyone who autos at all and deals magic damage want them. Neither C9 nor Fnatic had any practice prior to Cologne. Hai/Lemon got back from their Vietnam vacation just a few days prior to it. IMO its pretty obvious that Fnatic of Gambit's 'A' game is much higher than any NA teams' game right now. After that though, Roccat is probably the next EU team(?) and they look pretty pedestrian . They have S3-Dignitas level issues closing out games. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22069 Posts
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:07 Lord Tolkien wrote: Hybrid pen is probably getting a nerf for that reason. Too stronk on too many champs early game. Midlaners, champions like Elise, etc. Anyone who autos at all and deals magic damage want them. Neither C9 nor Fnatic had any practice prior to Cologne. Hai/Lemon got back from their Vietnam vacation just a few days prior to it. Pffft Bisu did it, fucking casuals | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:16 cLutZ wrote: IMO its pretty obvious that Fnatic of Gambit's 'A' game is much higher than any NA teams' game right now. After that though, Roccat is probably the next EU team(?) and they look pretty pedestrian . They have S3-Dignitas level issues closing out games. They are also the only team that I look forward to watching play no matter the opponent.I'd imagine it is the same for most people. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:20 Gorsameth wrote: Roccat has been a professional payed team for less then 2 weeks. Give them some time lol. Why are people expecting new teams to be god tier right away. Because that is actually what has historically happened in LOL? C9 Looked awesome, and were, Alternate started hot, and got worse, Bjergson was a dominant midlaner that elevated his team instantly when he was allowed to play, SKT-JudgmentDay Got 3rd place in OGN Spring, their first real try as a team, etc. Even before that, teams like WE, Blaze, and Frost came in and clowned the scene instantly. Conversely, Coast and VES sucked all summer, MRN and COL were consistently bad and never improved, Giants were bad, Dragonborns were bad, Jin Air is always bad. Like, the best examples for the "teams that grow" would be Vulcan or Lemondogs, but they evolved into strong regular season teams that lost when paired against strong teams in the highly competitive environments. They don't look that great now anyways, hue hue. | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:34 cLutZ wrote: Because that is actually what has historically happened in LOL? C9 Looked awesome, and were, Alternate started hot, and got worse, Bjergson was a dominant midlaner that elevated his team instantly when he was allowed to play, SKT-JudgmentDay Got 3rd place in OGN Spring, their first real try as a team, etc. Even before that, teams like WE, Blaze, and Frost came in and clowned the scene instantly. Conversely, Coast and VES sucked all summer, MRN and COL were consistently bad and never improved, Giants were bad, Dragonborns were bad, Jin Air is always bad. Like, the best examples for the "teams that grow" would be Vulcan or Lemondogs, but they evolved into strong regular season teams that lost when paired against strong teams in the highly competitive environments. They don't look that great now anyways, hue hue. This is an incredibly reductionist history. Teams don't magically become god-tier by themselves (and I'm sure Yango has much more to say on this...), and of these teams whose histories I've followed, none followed this narrative - C9, SKT, WE, Blaze, and Frost among others all had a lot of build-up before they become dominant. Just because you didn't personally follow them during the build-up doesn't mean that period wasn't there. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On January 25 2014 00:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: And as I said, it is holding strong at the beginning of S4. Fnatic and Gambit are doubtlessly stronger than than C9 and TSM right now, and the next step down is looking much better for EU too, though it's admittedly harder to call the second tier without head to head cross region play. I think especially gambit stepped up their game alot recently, not that they ever where weak but holy cow every single on of their members gets better so fast. I'am most impressed by genja who I considered kind of the weakest so far but that guy is starting to show more and more very smart aggression and superb teamplay & really aggressive but smart positioning ability recently. it feels alot different to watch him play. also interesting is how gambit is one of the few teams who consistently shake up picks, strategies, farm allocation and mapcontrol all at once. just such an impressive team. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This is an incredibly reductionist history. Teams don't magically become god-tier by themselves (and I'm sure Yango has much more to say on this...), and of these teams whose histories I've followed, none followed this narrative - C9, SKT, WE, Blaze, and Frost among others all had a lot of build-up before they become dominant. Just because you didn't personally follow them during the build-up doesn't mean that period wasn't there. What? If you want to talk seriously, C9 did come out of no where. Gambit made small splashes as Empire and did surprise everyone as Moscow 5 at Kiev. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:36 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: This is an incredibly reductionist history. Teams don't magically become god-tier by themselves (and I'm sure Yango has much more to say on this...), and of these teams whose histories I've followed, none followed this narrative - C9, SKT, WE, Blaze, and Frost among others all had a lot of build-up before they become dominant. Just because you didn't personally follow them during the build-up doesn't mean that period wasn't there. The narrative history is also much too causative. Cloud9 may have won games off of "better" teams in TSM invitationals as Orbit, but their team was set to, if anything, fail completely due to the frequent sponsor shaftings and roster shuffles. Cloud9 only had their current roster for months yet were able to have much cleaner teamfights and group movements than many other teams that had been together for years with minor roster changes. Obviously, exposure to training will always lead to a narrative of improvement, but you cannot deny that there is some sort of "spark" or "innate talent" required to seed these teams into the spotlight. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On January 25 2014 01:59 NeoIllusions wrote: What? If you want to talk seriously, C9 did come out of no where. Gambit made small splashes as Empire and did surprise everyone as Moscow 5 at Kiev. C9 hardly came out of nowhere, considering how the core of their line-up how has been around since early-mid 2012 under Orbit with Hai and Lemonnation. They were, by all accounts, an amateur team without much to show until they were acquired by Quantic, which was obviously a bigger name, and under which they assembled their current roster in mid 2013. Even under Quantic, they failed to qualify for LCS, and had to go another split before they made it in and began their dominance. None of their players came out of nowhere, the team has a distinct history that can be traced back all the way to 2012, and many people correctly predicted C9's strength. M5 broke into the world stage in a different era, when it was much more difficult to get information about the scene in different countries. But even so, they were hardly unknown - their stint as Empire was the build-up to them dominating the world as M5, and they definitely were not a nobody team that came out and destroyed everyone. People who did follow the scene knew their names and knew they were a solid squad. Hell they even had a play named after them when they were still Empire. On January 25 2014 02:09 kongoline wrote: u guys are missing one thing, roccat might be a new team but their players played since s1 in various teams I don't know their history, but this doesn't surprise me at all, and fits with the point I'm making anyways. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
But, for instance, do people have an expectation for CJ Frost to remake themselves with GBM and Helios still on the team and somehow elevate back into OGN's top 3? Edit, and really CSheep? 2 Players is a "core"? Like my example, you can't point to Frost, if they replaced everyone by Madlife and Shy, and say "see what a resurgence". | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:13 cLutZ wrote: Edit, and really CSheep? 2 Players is a "core"? Like my example, you can't point to Frost, if they replaced everyone by Madlife and Shy, and say "see what a resurgence". ? Why not? Teams are teams, players are players. Unless 5 players shift a sponsor and change their team name, you can only follow the teams, because players themselves are far too volatile. People will point to KT in 2009-2012 and say "wow what a resurgence from KT" after their dominance in 2004-2007, but the rosters are entirely different. And Lemonnation is, by all accounts, the captain of the team. It's fair to call him + one other member a core. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35166 Posts
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:19 Gahlo wrote: And now for something completely different: http://esportsexpress.com/2014/01/riot-fine-may-delay-construction-of-bjergsen-money-castle/ *claps* Well played as usual. The Big Pillow. | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:08 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: C9 hardly came out of nowhere, considering how the core of their line-up how has been around since early-mid 2012 under Orbit with Hai and Lemonnation. They were, by all accounts, an amateur team without much to show until they were acquired by Quantic, which was obviously a bigger name, and under which they assembled their current roster in mid 2013. Even under Quantic, they failed to qualify for LCS, and had to go another split before they made it in and began their dominance. None of their players came out of nowhere, the team has a distinct history that can be traced back all the way to 2012, and many people correctly predicted C9's strength. M5 broke into the world stage in a different era, when it was much more difficult to get information about the scene in different countries. But even so, they were hardly unknown - their stint as empire was the build-up to them dominating the world as M5, and they definitely were not a nobody team that came out and destroyed everyone. People who did follow the scene knew their names and knew they were a solid squad. Hell they even had a play named after them when they were still Empire. ... by all accounts, an amateur team without much to show... That's pretty much my definition of "out of nowhere". You have this team that literally placed last in two offline tournaments they attended. On paper, they had more talent as Quantic than they did as Cloud 9 (Hai moved from Jungle to Mid, Meteos no one even heard of unless you were playing fun police normals, Sneaky is not even a sidegrade to WildTurtle, etc). Yet you're telling me people correctly predicted that this C9 team would have come out in Summer Split and dominated NA? I get you think very little of NA LCS but to go from 8th out of 8 teams at MLGs to No. 1 in NA LCS, that's is my definition of "out of nowhere". | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On January 25 2014 02:20 AsmodeusXI wrote: *claps* Well played as usual. The Big Pillow. Those guys need some kind of award. | ||
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