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On January 20 2014 10:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I think we do need a bit of perspective here. 2v1s aren't fun for the solo laners or the spectators, so in general overnerfing 2v1s (and reverting them with smaller buffs) is better than undernerfing it (and having to change it again next patch).
I don't think 2v1s have been overnerfed, but instead moved from "do it basically every game in competitive" to "do it strategically when we absolutely need to/are willing to trade an early outer turret and possibly inner for it", but this is a case where it is "better" to overshoot than undershoot with nerfs.
It also changed mid lane dynamics quite a bit. Now you do almost 0 damage to turrets. WEEEEEE~~~~
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On January 20 2014 11:28 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 10:51 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I think we do need a bit of perspective here. 2v1s aren't fun for the solo laners or the spectators, so in general overnerfing 2v1s (and reverting them with smaller buffs) is better than undernerfing it (and having to change it again next patch).
I don't think 2v1s have been overnerfed, but instead moved from "do it basically every game in competitive" to "do it strategically when we absolutely need to/are willing to trade an early outer turret and possibly inner for it", but this is a case where it is "better" to overshoot than undershoot with nerfs. It also changed mid lane dynamics quite a bit. Now you do almost 0 damage to turrets. WEEEEEE~~~~
I personally have not noticed mid turrets being harder to kill since the patch.
Some quick math shows that Lux, whom I love, used to do 14 damage to the tower at level 1, and now does 11. Considering that minion damage to towers increased, it's not a big deal.
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Well apparently my school made it to CSL LoL north champions. Kinda disappointed that I could've been on that team if I didn't have a full engineering courseload last sem but oh well, RL OP.
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On January 20 2014 11:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 11:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
why arent they fun?
fun is a stupid concept and is completely subjective and malleable this, it's not like solo laners getting shutdown first 4 minutes, somehow makes it impossible for them to carry or whatever. It doesn't reduce their impact in the game.
No, the problem is that the first couple minutes of the game are predictable to spectators that even look at the minimap. That is why the changes were made.
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On January 20 2014 11:18 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 11:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
why arent they fun?
fun is a stupid concept and is completely subjective and malleable this, it's not like solo laners getting shutdown first 4 minutes, somehow makes it impossible for them to carry or whatever. It doesn't reduce their impact in the game.
It
1) limits the top lane champion pool at the competitive level immensely, as only those champions that can 1v2 and clear jungle camps quickly are actually viable top lane. See Mundo/Shyvana (and how EVERYONE complains about them, yet the 1v2ing reinforces their dominance).
2) Being denied for 5 minutes is kind of the definition of reducing their impact on the game, bro.
3) getting denied under a turret 2v1 or 3v1 is kinda annoying, and spectators know what's gonna happen.
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tbh, it didnt feel like watching ogn or eu lcs matches that 2v1s were as big of a problem, since the split for 2v1/2v2 seemed to be fairly close to 50%, but watching na lcs, almost every game was 2v1.
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On January 20 2014 12:15 Shiznick wrote:
tbh, it didnt feel like watching ogn or eu lcs matches that 2v1s were as big of a problem, since the split for 2v1/2v2 seemed to be fairly close to 50%, but watching na lcs, almost every game was 2v1.
I think even 50% is probably unhealthy as far as Riot is concerned. Whether or not you agree with it, they've made it clear that they only want lane swaps to be an occasional strategy and not anything near normal. 50% is quite normal.
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On January 20 2014 11:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
why arent they fun?
fun is a stupid concept and is completely subjective and malleable
Its not fun because riot has defined it as "antifun" and are in the process of defogging the laning phase
It has no place in the riot-approved meta
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On January 20 2014 12:23 Kupon3ss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 11:01 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
why arent they fun?
fun is a stupid concept and is completely subjective and malleable Its not fun because riot has defined it as "antifun" and are in the process of defogging the laning phase
every time i see u talk its always about riots anti fun scenarios
the true challenge is how do we make anti fun into fun
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
as long as 2v1's produce some sort of action, be it tower diving or jungler counterganking or w/e it's fine.
riot has this idea that every hero has a set laning profile. it's really derpy
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Kupon is a troll, I'd suggest not responding to him.
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How is it trolling to use riot-approved terminology to state basically the same thing you did?
On January 20 2014 12:18 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2014 12:15 Shiznick wrote:
tbh, it didnt feel like watching ogn or eu lcs matches that 2v1s were as big of a problem, since the split for 2v1/2v2 seemed to be fairly close to 50%, but watching na lcs, almost every game was 2v1. I think even 50% is probably unhealthy as far as Riot is concerned. Whether or not you agree with it, they've made it clear that they only want lane swaps to be an occasional strategy and not anything near normal. 50% is quite normal.
In that Riot hates antifun concepts like 2v1s and are actively working to defogging the laning phase with innovative changes like random damage reduction on towers that aren't meant for the Riot-approved 2v2 bot lane matchup.
On January 20 2014 12:54 oneofthem wrote:
as long as 2v1's produce some sort of action, be it tower diving or jungler counterganking or w/e it's fine.
riot has this idea that every hero has a set laning profile. it's really derpy
Once you remove every anti-fun element, all you have left is fun
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Why does the following happen?
Duo partner of mine with pretty much the same MMR (we are within 2 or 3 games in MMR) goes 5-5 and gets placed into Gold 3. I go 5-5 and get placed in Silver 2.
Wat?
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On January 20 2014 13:46 TooL wrote:
Why does the following happen?
Duo partner of mine with pretty much the same MMR (we are within 2 or 3 games in MMR) goes 5-5 and gets placed into Gold 3. I go 5-5 and get placed in Silver 2.
Wat?
Did you guys duo all 10 games?
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Has anybody heard from Atrioc recently? I haven't seen him around in a while.
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On January 20 2014 14:01 Ketara wrote:
Has anybody heard from Atrioc recently? I haven't seen him around in a while.
I sent him a PM a while back about help for the Riven thread, never got a reply.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 20 2014 14:01 Ketara wrote:
Has anybody heard from Atrioc recently? I haven't seen him around in a while.
He's been busy with RL stuff.
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"basically botrk is better alone but bt is way better if you're good at the game"-doublelift
in regards to why he goes BT (q max first) over BotRK (w max first) on vayne.
Continues, to explain that 2nd item timing of PD + BT is better than BotRK + PD, etc etc.
it was mentioned in LR before, just wanting to clarify if people didn't understand why DL did BT first on Vayne.
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United States37500 Posts
On January 20 2014 14:12 wei2coolman wrote:
"basically botrk is better alone but bt is way better if you're good at the game"-doublelift
in regards to why he goes BT (q max first) over BotRK (w max first) on vayne.
Continues, to explain that 2nd item timing of PD + BT is better than BotRK + PD, etc etc.
it was mentioned in LR before, just wanting to clarify if people didn't understand why DL did BT first on Vayne.
ELI5: pure AD for ADCs is better if you know how to position yourself.
True fax.
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EPT
