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[Patch 4.1] Season 4 Start General Discussion - Page 115

Forum Index > LoL General
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Alzadar
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada5009 Posts
January 27 2014 17:07 GMT
#2281
On January 28 2014 02:01 Sandster wrote:
Not sure why you were quoting me the vs Vlad matchup, but I mean you Q Garen while he's in range, and use W before he hits you so that your first auto on each other is a silence/stun, and you attack him through the spin and then E+autos+Q and E away after silence ends. If you're behind you obviously can't do this.

Renek scales better than Garen in the sense that it's much easier to cc Garen. If he builds tanky then his burst and damage is lower than Renek's, and if he builds damage then he's much easier to kill.


I dunno about your latter points, 6s duration 30% CC+damage reduction is no easy task to kill, even building some damage. And when building tanky, on a 2k HP target at half health Demacian Justice is a 900 magic damage nuke, that's no joke either.

I don't like playing Garen just cause I'm super bad at eyeballing the ultimate damage, I either way overkill or I barely miss it. Give me true damage with kill indicator like Cho please.
I am the Town Medic.
nojitosunrise
Profile Joined August 2011
United States6188 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 17:08:57
January 27 2014 17:08 GMT
#2282
LoL is kinda big these days.

One of the world’s hottest videogames, “League of Legends,” is disclosing a big jump in the number of customers playing its game each day.

Riot Games, of Santa Monica, Calif., said it now counts more than 27 million gamers playing “League of Legends” each day, more than double the 12 million it counted in October 2012. The company also said it has counted peaks of over 7.5 million customers playing the game at the same time each day, up 50% from the 5 million the company counted in March of last year.


http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/01/27/player-tally-for-league-of-legends-surges/
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 17:17:04
January 27 2014 17:08 GMT
#2283
On January 28 2014 01:51 Alaric wrote:
I guess what he means is that since Renek keeps momentum during his Q, if you start running away when Garen runs to you, Q while he's in the AoE then press W you can activate it before the silence?


yeah but you dont fire q until renek is close and trying to last hit
the difference is ive been playing garen vs renek constantly this seaosn and the other guy probably played against garen once last season

On January 28 2014 02:01 Sandster wrote:
Not sure why you were quoting me the vs Vlad matchup, but I mean you Q Garen while he's in range, and use W before he hits you so that your first auto on each other is a silence/stun, and you attack him through the spin and then E+autos+Q and E away after silence ends. Pre-activating W isn't actually all important if you're going for a full rotation since using it after being un-silenced as an auto-attack cancel is higher burst; it's just important to get the initial Q beforehand so you get a second one back sooner. If you're behind you obviously can't do this.

Renek scales better than Garen in the sense that it's much easier to cc Garen. If he builds tanky then his burst and damage is lower than Renek's, and if he builds damage then he's much easier to kill.


I quoted the vs vlad matchup because you made the comparision between vlad pool and renek e being shorter but ignored garen q being shorter than renek E when the other guy used the exact same argument in how vlad beats renek (pool vs his e)
the irony escaped you apparently.

as for your theorycraft theres a lot of assumptions you're making which is mostly that garens gong to run in with Q then tank your Q and somehow get W'd before his Q goes off
you can wait for him to Q a creep wave, Q in then run away again when he activates W (if close to tower he can't E in to chase, if not close to tower trying to Q garen in the middle of a wave will push it). Definitely renek can avoid your Q with E but you can only do it half the time.

as for lategame garens 20% bonus MR/Armour scaling and 30% 6 second reduction means he's probably the best hard scaling tank in the game (maybe malphite vs armour) and his burst is a lot higher than renek because of how much damage ult does (1k+ after level 16)

his sustianed damage is a lot lower, for sure
Garens AD scaling is 4.7 AD and reneks is 4.1 +.4/.75/.45 depending on what empowered attacks you use and if you use E to gap close thorugh someone and not your main focus -0.9 AD scaling, so they are similar in that respect
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
January 27 2014 17:39 GMT
#2284
On January 28 2014 01:46 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 00:32 Sponkz wrote:
On January 27 2014 23:22 Slayer91 wrote:
no, not being a baddie is the counter to not getting tower dove 3 times in a row.
spirit fire leads to pushing and pushing leads to ganking and ganking leads to the black and white side.

On January 27 2014 21:14 mr_tolkien wrote:
On January 27 2014 21:11 Sponkz wrote:
On January 27 2014 21:03 Scip wrote:
It's kinda a self-own, because only a psycho like Sponkz would know what Ritalin even is :D

a good fucking joke though. I'd go ADHD for a week just to be able to make it

And the thousands and thousands of children given ritalin, despite not having ADHD or ADD.

Well yeah, we're more talking about how you still didn't recover from it.

User was warned for this post


What's going on here? First sponkz makes really weak and uninspired insults aimed towards me, and then Tolkien makes a really weak and uninspired insult towards sponkz and gets warned, and then scip goes crazy?
unless sponkz is really mentally ill, in that case it would explain his something something bad plays

On January 27 2014 21:22 Scip wrote:
You are tearing my fucking heart apart guys, I wish we could have a group skype chat where you wouldn't try to rip each other's dicks off at every time you are online at the same time. This is more to you tolki right now, it woulda been a fine joke, if not for the fact that nobody can fucking tell just how serious you are


Do I need to read the Skype chat to get some sweet drama?
also if you mean ripping each other dicks off in a sexual way, hot.

I think the friction comes from Tolkien being self-righteous and sponkz having an anti bully complex
the friction can only be cured by getting hot and sweaty and plenty of lubricant



On January 27 2014 23:19 Slayer91 wrote:
Anyone here who's good at editing and all that? Need to make a clip and post on reddit. Epic Kayle ult by scip, ulting a full health orianna while someone died right next to him. Might not have the replay - Don't PM me.



wat


I meant in the EUW inhouse thread
I mean I can browse r/wtf just easier than i can browse r/aww i don't know how you're trying to disgust me

the 2nd part was scip highlight reel of all the times he failed ult last night (in bed)


Who said I was trying to disgust you
hi
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
January 27 2014 17:40 GMT
#2285
I have no idea what you were trying to do I can only come up with hypothesis' at this stage
NeedsmoreCELLTECH
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Netherlands1242 Posts
January 27 2014 17:43 GMT
#2286
Can someone explain to me why exactly the tower changes were bad? I am not supporting it, just curious as to why the changes are considered so bad. It seems that Riot wanted to make adc/support toplane/midgame less attractive, and it seems that the patch achieved just that. If it's "inelegant", what would be a better alternative?
Get huge or die mirin | Diamond on LoL
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
January 27 2014 17:45 GMT
#2287
any time riot changes anythin lots of people whine
its just the nature of change
people who like the changes dont say anything
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21707 Posts
January 27 2014 17:49 GMT
#2288
On January 28 2014 02:43 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Can someone explain to me why exactly the tower changes were bad? I am not supporting it, just curious as to why the changes are considered so bad. It seems that Riot wanted to make adc/support toplane/midgame less attractive, and it seems that the patch achieved just that. If it's "inelegant", what would be a better alternative?

1) its unintuitive and brute forced
2) it crushes anything that doesn't conform with Riots idea of the meta instead of letting the scene figure out how it wants to play
3) if you want to force the duo bot you can do it through other means like making baron more important early game so that if you swap your duo to top you lose dragon and it costs you.
4) It punishes top and mid lane. You cant push as hard on a tower if the other side roams because of giant arbitrary dmg reductions.
5) it hasn't actually done anything. We have still seen duo's top in almost every single pro game since the patch.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Kyrie
Profile Joined June 2013
1594 Posts
January 27 2014 17:57 GMT
#2289
On January 28 2014 02:45 Slayer91 wrote:
any time riot changes anythin lots of people whine
its just the nature of change
people who like the changes dont say anything

while this isn't wrong, there is a valid argument for why these tower changes in particular are a negative departure from riot's professed balance goals. the post above mine is a decent summation
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
January 27 2014 18:03 GMT
#2290
IMO the problem isn't that dragon doesn't reward enough, its that the duo lane can't take it easily enough earlygame. You basically have to back even if you get it uncontested. Some "reward" indeed.
Freeeeeeedom
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 18:06:12
January 27 2014 18:05 GMT
#2291
On January 28 2014 03:03 cLutZ wrote:
IMO the problem isn't that dragon doesn't reward enough, its that the duo lane can't take it easily enough earlygame. You basically have to back even if you get it uncontested. Some "reward" indeed.

wat?You can do dragon without getting hit once.It just has infinity hp.Also it gives very little gold the 1 wave you lose is same gold as it lol.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 27 2014 18:08 GMT
#2292
On January 28 2014 02:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 02:43 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Can someone explain to me why exactly the tower changes were bad? I am not supporting it, just curious as to why the changes are considered so bad. It seems that Riot wanted to make adc/support toplane/midgame less attractive, and it seems that the patch achieved just that. If it's "inelegant", what would be a better alternative?

1) its unintuitive and brute forced
2) it crushes anything that doesn't conform with Riots idea of the meta instead of letting the scene figure out how it wants to play
3) if you want to force the duo bot you can do it through other means like making baron more important early game so that if you swap your duo to top you lose dragon and it costs you.
4) It punishes top and mid lane. You cant push as hard on a tower if the other side roams because of giant arbitrary dmg reductions.
5) it hasn't actually done anything. We have still seen duo's top in almost every single pro game since the patch.


On January 28 2014 02:57 Kyrie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 02:45 Slayer91 wrote:
any time riot changes anythin lots of people whine
its just the nature of change
people who like the changes dont say anything

while this isn't wrong, there is a valid argument for why these tower changes in particular are a negative departure from riot's professed balance goals. the post above mine is a decent summation


Okay, this is stupid for a number of reasons.


1 - Saying something is "unintuitive and brute forced" is subjective. How it is any more or less unintuitive than towers having bonus armor the first 8 minutes of the game is beyond me.

2 - "crushes anything that doesn't conform with Riots idea of the meta" is extremely hyperbolic to the point of being ridiculous. This is the kind of idiotic statement that comes up for some change or other in every patch. The defense of top and middle outer towers have hardly changed at all, only the bot lane tower has really changed, and yet this is crushing 1984 style conformity. Get over yourself.

3 - This point is actually valid, and is the only reasonable point I've heard for this tower change argument.

4 - It doesn't punish top and mid lane, because if you'd actually look at the math behind the changes you'd see that top and middle tower are NOT significantly harder to kill. Have you been playing the game since the patch? Do you think towers are harder to kill? I haven't noticed them being harder to kill. The math supports them not being harder to kill.

5 - LCS isn't even playing on the patch yet, so of course it hasn't done anything.



And re: Kyrie. I really wish people would stop trying to justify themselves calling Riot bad by saying what Riot is doing is against the goals of Riot. It's like you've magically split the company into two distinct entities. There's your Riot which knows what it's doing and is this great company that you love to reference as upholding the amazing game that is League of Legends, and then there's the other Riot that's this moron who shits all over everything you love.

There's only one Riot. If they make a decision to do something, it's in line with what their balance goals are. If it's contrary to something they said 6 months ago, that doesn't mean they're some schizophrenic teenager angsting around, it means that they changed their mind about what they said 6 months ago.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
turamn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1374 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 18:14:59
January 27 2014 18:09 GMT
#2293
On January 28 2014 03:03 cLutZ wrote:
IMO the problem isn't that dragon doesn't reward enough, its that the duo lane can't take it easily enough earlygame. You basically have to back even if you get it uncontested. Some "reward" indeed.


I definitely think that the Dragon at early levels is pretty underwhelming right now and before this weekend, I'd have probably been in the 'just buff dragon reward' boat, but the more I think about it, the more I'm not sure.

Take the DIG/CLG game this past weekend. This is just some thought and I understand that CLG severely screwed up their early game at the blue buff, but imagine that game if the Dragon they took immediately after that still gave full rewards. No point to keep watching, unless you're a masochist.

I'm still not a fan of the tower changes, but I'm not sure that just outright buffing dragon gold is the right solution. I think we need to give it some more time. If we see any kind of 2v1 lanes dying off, then reverting the dragon gold and removing the buff might be the way to go, just so strategies can be reintroduced to the game. I don't know if just buffing dragon gold is the right long term solution, though.

EDIT: Re-read your comment, realized that I completely misread it. Not going to change post, though.
turamn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1374 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 18:11:15
January 27 2014 18:10 GMT
#2294
dbl post, plz deleterino
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
January 27 2014 18:13 GMT
#2295
On January 28 2014 02:08 nojitosunrise wrote:
LoL is kinda big these days.

Show nested quote +
One of the world’s hottest videogames, “League of Legends,” is disclosing a big jump in the number of customers playing its game each day.

Riot Games, of Santa Monica, Calif., said it now counts more than 27 million gamers playing “League of Legends” each day, more than double the 12 million it counted in October 2012. The company also said it has counted peaks of over 7.5 million customers playing the game at the same time each day, up 50% from the 5 million the company counted in March of last year.


http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/01/27/player-tally-for-league-of-legends-surges/

Alive game? Alive game!?
Glorious SEA doto
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 27 2014 18:14 GMT
#2296
On January 28 2014 03:08 Ketara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 02:49 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 28 2014 02:43 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Can someone explain to me why exactly the tower changes were bad? I am not supporting it, just curious as to why the changes are considered so bad. It seems that Riot wanted to make adc/support toplane/midgame less attractive, and it seems that the patch achieved just that. If it's "inelegant", what would be a better alternative?

1) its unintuitive and brute forced
2) it crushes anything that doesn't conform with Riots idea of the meta instead of letting the scene figure out how it wants to play
3) if you want to force the duo bot you can do it through other means like making baron more important early game so that if you swap your duo to top you lose dragon and it costs you.
4) It punishes top and mid lane. You cant push as hard on a tower if the other side roams because of giant arbitrary dmg reductions.
5) it hasn't actually done anything. We have still seen duo's top in almost every single pro game since the patch.


Show nested quote +
On January 28 2014 02:57 Kyrie wrote:
On January 28 2014 02:45 Slayer91 wrote:
any time riot changes anythin lots of people whine
its just the nature of change
people who like the changes dont say anything

while this isn't wrong, there is a valid argument for why these tower changes in particular are a negative departure from riot's professed balance goals. the post above mine is a decent summation


Okay, this is stupid for a number of reasons.


1 - Saying something is "unintuitive and brute forced" is subjective. How it is any more or less unintuitive than towers having bonus armor the first 8 minutes of the game is beyond me.

2 - "crushes anything that doesn't conform with Riots idea of the meta" is extremely hyperbolic to the point of being ridiculous. This is the kind of idiotic statement that comes up for some change or other in every patch. The defense of top and middle outer towers have hardly changed at all, only the bot lane tower has really changed, and yet this is crushing 1984 style conformity. Get over yourself.

3 - This point is actually valid, and is the only reasonable point I've heard for this tower change argument.

4 - It doesn't punish top and mid lane, because if you'd actually look at the math behind the changes you'd see that top and middle tower are NOT significantly harder to kill. Have you been playing the game since the patch? Do you think towers are harder to kill? I haven't noticed them being harder to kill. The math supports them not being harder to kill.

5 - LCS isn't even playing on the patch yet, so of course it hasn't done anything.



And re: Kyrie. I really wish people would stop trying to justify themselves calling Riot bad by saying what Riot is doing is against the goals of Riot. It's like you've magically split the company into two distinct entities. There's your Riot which knows what it's doing and is this great company that you love to reference as upholding the amazing game that is League of Legends, and then there's the other Riot that's this moron who shits all over everything you love.

There's only one Riot. If they make a decision to do something, it's in line with what their balance goals are. If it's contrary to something they said 6 months ago, that doesn't mean they're some schizophrenic teenager angsting around, it means that they changed their mind about what they said 6 months ago.

1. bonus armor for first 8 minutes is unintuitive, but -20 dmg from champion attacks is even more so.
2. riot explicitly said that they did it to lower the # of 2v1's.
3. if there are more elegant ways of lower # of 2v1's, why not do those instead of -20 dmg?
4. they're harder to kill if you're an auto attack based midlaner, that means running ADC in midlane is no longer as good. (i'm talking about solo adc's like ez/quinn/etc, not duo lane adc's)
5. It's been in play in EU and NA >.>
liftlift > tsm
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
January 27 2014 18:18 GMT
#2297
On January 28 2014 02:05 JonGalt wrote:
you pussies need to grudge match more. give your purses to your boyfriends and settle this.


Still waiting... mwhahaha.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 27 2014 18:18 GMT
#2298
When did they start playing on the patch?

If they ARE playing on the patch, then points 2 and 5 completely contradict each other. Something that is having no effect can't be "crushing everything"

And the towers are not significantly harder to kill wei, I'm sorry. If you'd like to make that claim, show me math that supports it. You are wrong.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
turamn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1374 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-27 18:28:09
January 27 2014 18:19 GMT
#2299
Last week, IIRC.

EDIT: Yeah, this weekends games were definitely on 4.1

I think the interesting thing to note on this infographic is that the first tower still went 50/50 to both sides. There was definitely still some lane swapping, so I'd be interested to see the % in which the team who initiated the 2v1 took their tower before their opponent.

Ultimately, I think the sample size is still a little too small to make a judgement one way or the other.
Dgiese
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2687 Posts
January 27 2014 18:22 GMT
#2300
On January 28 2014 02:43 NeedsmoreCELLTECH wrote:
Can someone explain to me why exactly the tower changes were bad? I am not supporting it, just curious as to why the changes are considered so bad. It seems that Riot wanted to make adc/support toplane/midgame less attractive, and it seems that the patch achieved just that. If it's "inelegant", what would be a better alternative?

MonteChristo explains his problems with the tower changes from about 25 min onwards in this vid


Btw I hope your OP went well and everythign is A-ok now.

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