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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
The key thing is Brand can't really initiate fights later in the game, Annie can. Brands 'potential' feels higher on paper but ehhhhh. The proposed build is Talisman Sightstone Rylai Liandry. Brand doesn't need AP to do damage, all he needs is Rylai/Liandry and some means of getting to 40% CDR for more stuns. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Varnagas/AP_scaling_per_second#AP.2Fs_table_of_Champions this is super interesting. The important stats are total ap ratio for 1 combo burst and ap/s for sustained damage. The champions who stand out the most IMO are: 1. Cassiopeia. Both her sustained ratio is absolutely ridiculous and she has one of the highest base ratio's too. That means 1 combo allready scales better than most. 2. Nautilus has incredibly high base and sustained ratios. Both(!) are higher than the ones of: Morgana, Gragas, Lux, Sion, Galio. This is really huge isn't it? He is barely behind Rumble. The fact that he has a shield and tons of CC as well almost makes be believe that he should be played in the mid position. Especially in soloq where Kass and Fizz are played often he would shine because they can't melee him or chunk him down because of his strong shield and they have a tough time to slip away because of his cc and ult. 3. Zyra's ratios in both base and per second are very high as well. Coupled with the utility and base damage she provides she should be played mid more often. She has such good ratios, utility and basedamage that I would consider her an extremely strong pick for turtling, because she is hard to push against and is usefull when behind, but still has the timebomb effect of "ok i somehow got my voidstaff and rabadons, you should have ended earlyer". | ||
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Duvon
Sweden2360 Posts
*His ratio is only like 2.05 at smallest though (no shield, not multiple riptide hits) | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
On January 05 2014 22:46 Dusty wrote: Brand support is stupid good, doesn't even matter if he "falls off" lategame (and as the support position, he won't) because of his god-tier laning and his good teamfighting (and if Brand picks up a rylais he's going to be permaslowing the whole team for 35+% due to the way rylai works with his passive) while shredding tanks (hello mundo/shyv/renek/rengar/otherbeefcaketoplanersandjunglers) and if he picks up a liandry's, god help the enemy team. he fall offs late game? every time i played vs brand who knew what he was doing he was carrying whole game with insane dmg Oo | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On January 06 2014 00:58 Ketara wrote: We've been discussing support Brand in TROLLS. So far since we've tried it we pretty much think Annie is better. We're probably gonna try it some more though. The key thing is Brand can't really initiate fights later in the game, Annie can. Brands 'potential' feels higher on paper but ehhhhh. The proposed build is Talisman Sightstone Rylai Liandry. Brand doesn't need AP to do damage, all he needs is Rylai/Liandry and some means of getting to 40% CDR for more stuns. Annie is more of a one-combo all in for laning phase and can initiate teamfights welll, yes. But Brand has better poke, kiting, and sustained damage (ESPECIALLY vs high HP targets). Also I was under the impression Brand's passive applied the full Rylai effect? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On January 05 2014 22:58 Paljas wrote: why dont you play him in a solo lane (or even jungle ) then? cause support just kinda sounds underwhelming if you dont crush the lane the exact same reason you dont play annie mid anymore. their kits arent suited to mid lane because mid lane is full of mobility and they have none. bot lane you can still get away with low mobility champs On January 06 2014 01:31 wei2coolman wrote: Brand is better version of annie, but more risk due to harder to hit skills. (in regards to lane phase anyways) i wouldnt go that far. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On January 06 2014 00:45 beefhamburger wrote: Rylais makes it so you can land all your spells in succession since the important part of his kit is skill shots (q stun and w damage). I don't think void will be that useful early on until you have more utility. Also Rylai's slow is only 15% except for his q and e aoe effect, not a full 35%, even with the passive. That's not the point, actually. The thing is, Brand's passive procs Rylai's. So you basicaly get a 5.5 seconds 15% slow every time you land a spell. It is incredibly broken against melee champions. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
His passive scales naturally off enemy HP and Brand's MPen, but people buy MR and you can only itemise that much MPen with farm. Nautilus' shield gets destroyed pretty easily, especially if he builds AP rather than tanky, it's very hard to get multiple Riptide hits due to how you need to already be on top of the target (he stops to cast it, it doesn't move fast, so it's very easy to outrun him when he casts) and the gap between the waves is rather big while the targets are slowed if they eat one, thus making it less likely that they'll run into the next one's zone. His level 6 burst is strong, and during the midgame he has a timing where he has his shield maxed (and generally guise and/or abyssal, while AD champions lack burst to destroy it fast) and can abuse it to deal a bunch of damage, but it becomes worse and worse after that. Obviously, if he gets to snowball you're in for a tough ride because the shield will be stronger than you'd expect and harder to destroy, but he still doesn't scale well the same way AP Maokai doesn't do well as the other champions get gold and levels. Edit: I looked at the AP/s thingy the guy did, and it's wrong on several accounts. Or rather, he ignored certain parts. For example, CDR only serves on Cassiopeia's W and R, because E has its reset mechanic, and Q deals its damage over time, for about as long as its base cooldown. Hence, buying CDR won't change anything to your Q/E dps as long as you hit every Q, since casting the next one faster only refreshes the duration on the DoT. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Brand has his own strength though. The permanent 15% slow is incredibly annoying when you are Nasus/Shyvana/Mundo, because it lowers your speed enough to negate your movement speed steroids... and you will get kited for days. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 06 2014 01:32 AsnSensation wrote: wut brand better than annie?? I should have been more specific, in regards to Support lane phase. | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On January 06 2014 01:42 turdburgler wrote: what are peoples thoughts on BotRK on champions like shen, who like the attack speed but otherwise dont really care about dmg? I've sometimes gone botrk shen if I'm really committed to dive buddying with someone like nocturne, tbh I've found that tri + tank is normally fine. | ||
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Alzadar
Canada5009 Posts
However Annie is definitely much easier to play, has similar (though slightly less) damage, plus the added ability to initiate. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On January 06 2014 00:58 Ketara wrote: We've been discussing support Brand in TROLLS. So far since we've tried it we pretty much think Annie is better. We're probably gonna try it some more though. The key thing is Brand can't really initiate fights later in the game, Annie can. Brands 'potential' feels higher on paper but ehhhhh. The proposed build is Talisman Sightstone Rylai Liandry. Brand doesn't need AP to do damage, all he needs is Rylai/Liandry and some means of getting to 40% CDR for more stuns. Annie shouldn't be initiating fights later on, Brand's way of CC is much more suited for a support than Annie. Tibbers initiate is OK if you're playing her mid and are stupidly fed, but in ideal situations you want to use it for peeling. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
2 second stun on a 3.6 second cooldown with added permanent 15% slow. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22281 Posts
On January 06 2014 02:23 Sponkz wrote: Annie shouldn't be initiating fights later on, Brand's way of CC is much more suited for a support than Annie. Tibbers initiate is OK if you're playing her mid and are stupidly fed, but in ideal situations you want to use it for peeling. You dont have to peel anything when you stun 3/4 people with Tibbers and they die before the stuns wears off. Annie stun is point and click, Brand is a skillshot, how is that more suited? | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On January 06 2014 02:23 Sponkz wrote: Annie shouldn't be initiating fights later on, Brand's way of CC is much more suited for a support than Annie. Tibbers initiate is OK if you're playing her mid and are stupidly fed, but in ideal situations you want to use it for peeling. lol | ||
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