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[Patch 3.15] Yasuo General Discussion - Page 165

Forum Index > LoL General
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sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
January 05 2014 19:44 GMT
#3281
On January 06 2014 04:20 clickrush wrote:
where does the "brand has bad ap ratios" myth come from. he has one of the highest overall ap ratios in the game.


I don't think anyone says that
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
January 05 2014 19:56 GMT
#3282
On January 06 2014 04:27 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 03:47 Ketara wrote:
I'm still not too enamored with Annie support. I still think Sona is better. I don't understand why all the Annie love.

I wish somebody could explain it to me. I can understand why Annie is preferred in a 2v1 lane, but not in a 2v2.

Cause you can literally be getting dumpstered by the other bot lane and as soon as you hit 6 no matter how awful you are aslong as you can tibbers stun you can still shit on them 2v2.


if your AD gets an early lead vs an annie duo you need to go full genja and buy 3 dorans and a giants belt.
InfSunday
Profile Joined March 2013
United States735 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 20:20:52
January 05 2014 20:16 GMT
#3283
Obviously the solution is cleanse/barrier, banshee's veil first.

But seriously support annie is obnoxious, how are you supposed to play against her post-6 as someone like jinx? If you try to farm she just murders you... granted I'm probably just bad because gold league.

Genja streaming: on Ashe, went BT > Zerkers > BF + Brawler's gloves. Genja what doing.
Call me Sunday
NpG)Explosive
Profile Joined January 2003
France994 Posts
January 05 2014 20:17 GMT
#3284
On January 06 2014 04:44 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 04:20 clickrush wrote:
where does the "brand has bad ap ratios" myth come from. he has one of the highest overall ap ratios in the game.


I don't think anyone says that



On January 05 2014 23:39 Dusty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 05 2014 22:58 Paljas wrote:
On January 05 2014 22:46 Dusty wrote:
Brand support is stupid good, doesn't even matter if he "falls off" lategame (and as the support position, he won't) because of his god-tier laning and his good teamfighting (and if Brand picks up a rylais he's going to be permaslowing the whole team for 35+% due to the way rylai works with his passive) while shredding tanks (hello mundo/shyv/renek/rengar/otherbeefcaketoplanersandjunglers) and if he picks up a liandry's, god help the enemy team.

why dont you play him in a solo lane (or even jungle ) then? cause support just kinda sounds underwhelming if you dont crush the lane


because he's not good enough of a solo laner to justify putting him in one, nor does he scale with farm as well as the other ones. Put him in a duo lane as a "support", however...

also, his ap ratios are bad which is partially why he just prefers utility oriented AP items like rylai/liandry


It's been said.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 05 2014 20:31 GMT
#3285
I think the big arguments for Brand having a possibility as support are

A - His passive lets him continue to damage without items.

and B - His ult favors fights involving more than one enemy champ.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 05 2014 20:38 GMT
#3286
On January 06 2014 05:31 Ketara wrote:
I think the big arguments for Brand having a possibility as support are

A - His passive lets him continue to damage without items.

and B - His ult favors fights involving more than one enemy champ.


I don't understand how B is any more true on Brand than anyone else with AoE/multitarget ult.
liftlift > tsm
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 20:44:55
January 05 2014 20:41 GMT
#3287
While I see your point,

1) Brand passive is pretty meh without items. He still needs magic penetration items to leverage it, and thus gold. He also still needs a Rylais if he's going to contribute something other than a (let's be honest) unreliable stun. There are plenty of ways to miss it or juke it, or whatnot (and requires the target to be blazed, with requires either being E'd, which puts Brand in closeish range, or tagging a W, which loses you your main damage source). Annie gets a guaranteed stun (E is instant, R is practically instant, Q is auto-track).

2) His ulti can bounce off minions, if you blaze them too, though yes. This is a weak argument though.

Brand just needs gold too much for him to really shine as a support. Needs to hit his core items asap so he can actually transition with damage/CC (Rylais, Liandrys [optional], mana regen item [Grail, Morellos], Void/Deathcap), and being a support still means sinking gold into a sightstone+Talisman.

Also his only utility is an unreliable stun. Unless he gets Rylais, but again that's still a LATE item buy given he needs talisman+sightstone as a support.

Cassiopeia is a better support than Brand, as is Veigar, straight up.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
January 05 2014 20:45 GMT
#3288
Tolkien have you tried support brand?
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
January 05 2014 20:45 GMT
#3289
On January 06 2014 05:45 jaybrundage wrote:
Tolkien have you tried support brand?

Yes.

Support Veigar is better.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
January 05 2014 20:47 GMT
#3290
How does Viktor support do?
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
January 05 2014 20:49 GMT
#3291
On January 06 2014 05:47 Swords wrote:
How does Viktor support do?

Fairly well, actually. Long range AoE slow/stun with the augment and AoE silence makes him not terrible as a support. A tier ahead of support Brand tbh.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
January 05 2014 20:51 GMT
#3292
On January 06 2014 05:49 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 05:47 Swords wrote:
How does Viktor support do?

Fairly well, actually. Long range AoE slow/stun with the augment and AoE silence makes him not terrible as a support. A tier ahead of support Brand tbh.


I tried him once, but I'm not great as a support and I wasn't really sure how to play him in that position. I felt like I wasn't doing any damage at all without the death augment. What's a good adc to pair him with? And how should my masteries work?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
January 05 2014 20:55 GMT
#3293
On January 06 2014 05:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:
While I see your point,

1) Brand passive is pretty meh without items. He still needs magic penetration items to leverage it, and thus gold. He also still needs a Rylais if he's going to contribute something other than a (let's be honest) unreliable stun. There are plenty of ways to miss it or juke it, or whatnot (and requires the target to be blazed, with requires either being E'd, which puts Brand in closeish range, or tagging a W, which loses you your main damage source). Annie gets a guaranteed stun (E is instant, R is practically instant, Q is auto-track).

2) His ulti can bounce off minions, if you blaze them too, though yes. This is a weak argument though.

Brand just needs gold too much for him to really shine as a support. Needs to hit his core items asap so he can actually transition with damage/CC (Rylais, Liandrys [optional], mana regen item [Grail, Morellos], Void/Deathcap), and being a support still means sinking gold into a sightstone+Talisman.

Also his only utility is an unreliable stun. Unless he gets Rylais, but again that's still a LATE item buy given he needs talisman+sightstone as a support.

Cassiopeia is a better support than Brand, as is Veigar, straight up.


Cassiopeia has a lot of mana problems, Veigar's damage is too low and also too mana intensive. Brand's spells are actually pretty cheap considering how much damage they do.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
January 05 2014 20:58 GMT
#3294
There is really no reason to ever support Viktor over Veigar though. Veigar's stun is way way better and his ult still gibs enemy AP.

Viktor's AOE silence is a .5 second minisilence, its only there to stop channeling.

In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
krndandaman
Profile Joined August 2009
Mozambique16569 Posts
January 05 2014 20:59 GMT
#3295
--- Nuked ---
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-05 21:09:24
January 05 2014 21:04 GMT
#3296
On January 06 2014 05:51 Swords wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 05:49 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On January 06 2014 05:47 Swords wrote:
How does Viktor support do?

Fairly well, actually. Long range AoE slow/stun with the augment and AoE silence makes him not terrible as a support. A tier ahead of support Brand tbh.


I tried him once, but I'm not great as a support and I wasn't really sure how to play him in that position. I felt like I wasn't doing any damage at all without the death augment. What's a good adc to pair him with? And how should my masteries work?

I've only played twice, so I'm by no means an expert on the niceties of support Viktor. I just went 21/0/9 with regular caster runes because I was forced into the role. It's a niche support, so it also depends on the enemy champions, and I can't give you any detailed matchup knowledge.

On January 06 2014 05:55 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2014 05:41 Lord Tolkien wrote:
While I see your point,

1) Brand passive is pretty meh without items. He still needs magic penetration items to leverage it, and thus gold. He also still needs a Rylais if he's going to contribute something other than a (let's be honest) unreliable stun. There are plenty of ways to miss it or juke it, or whatnot (and requires the target to be blazed, with requires either being E'd, which puts Brand in closeish range, or tagging a W, which loses you your main damage source). Annie gets a guaranteed stun (E is instant, R is practically instant, Q is auto-track).

2) His ulti can bounce off minions, if you blaze them too, though yes. This is a weak argument though.

Brand just needs gold too much for him to really shine as a support. Needs to hit his core items asap so he can actually transition with damage/CC (Rylais, Liandrys [optional], mana regen item [Grail, Morellos], Void/Deathcap), and being a support still means sinking gold into a sightstone+Talisman.

Also his only utility is an unreliable stun. Unless he gets Rylais, but again that's still a LATE item buy given he needs talisman+sightstone as a support.

Cassiopeia is a better support than Brand, as is Veigar, straight up.


Cassiopeia has a lot of mana problems, Veigar's damage is too low and also too mana intensive. Brand's spells are actually pretty cheap considering how much damage they do.

Cassio's mana problems aren't as severe when she's playing support and all she's doing is Q+Eing the enemy laners. level 1 Q has a low mana cost, and her passive, and she has a dope level 2-3 all-in with certain ADCs (anyone that can slow). She can divert over to a chalice or tear comfortably, while still retaining utility due to built-in slows+AoE anti-dive ulti.

Veigar's damage also ain't that low, and his passive does cover most of his mana problems in early lane since his mana cost buffs way back when (and coin-talisman gives him enough additional mana for support laning).

Also can get fed and start one-shotting squishies and mid laners no prob. If not, he still has the longest duration AoE stun in the game. It's longer than Rammus taunt and Fiddle Fear now, and on AoE.

Keep Brand in the mid lane, he does fine there. Or run duo-AP bot lanes (provided he's the primary farm destination).
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Swords
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
6038 Posts
January 05 2014 21:08 GMT
#3297
[QUOTE]On January 06 2014 06:04 Lord Tolkien wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 06 2014 05:51 Swords wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 06 2014 05:49 Lord Tolkien wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 06 2014 05:47 Swords wrote:
How does Viktor support do?[/QUOTE]
Fairly well, actually. Long range AoE slow/stun with the augment and AoE silence makes him not terrible as a support. A tier ahead of support Brand tbh.[/QUOTE]

I tried him once, but I'm not great as a support and I wasn't really sure how to play him in that position. I felt like I wasn't doing any damage at all without the death augment. What's a good adc to pair him with? And how should my masteries work?[/QUOTE]
I've only played twice, so I'm by no means an expert on the niceties of support Viktor. I just went 21/0/9 with regular caster masteries because I was forced into the role. It's a niche support, so it also depends on the enemy champions, and I can't give you any detailed matchup knowledge.


Word. Makes sense. Maybe i'll experiment some with it in normals with friends.
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
January 05 2014 21:09 GMT
#3298
Having dodgeable non aoe cc just hurts brand too much to be a reliable support. Yes he has great damage, and I can see his laning being fine in an isolated 2v2 environment.
But outside of laning he runs into so many problems as support. Kind of the same as when he's mid but a bit worse; no mobility, zero duel potential, not tanky; just free meat when warding for basically anyone on the opposing team.
Theorycrafting on basis of having rylai's just seems silly; games tend to be decided for the better part before the support gets his first choseable item (unless you feel like lolol who needs talisman/sightstone/pinks/lens/boots).
Only the dead have seen the end of war
Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
January 05 2014 21:11 GMT
#3299
On January 06 2014 06:09 Schwopzi wrote:
Having dodgeable non aoe cc just hurts brand too much to be a reliable support. Yes he has great damage, and I can see his laning being fine in an isolated 2v2 environment.
But outside of laning he runs into so many problems as support. Kind of the same as when he's mid but a bit worse; no mobility, zero duel potential, not tanky; just free meat when warding for basically anyone on the opposing team.
Theorycrafting on basis of having rylai's just seems silly; games tend to be decided for the better part before the support gets his first choseable item (unless you feel like lolol who needs talisman/sightstone/pinks/lens/boots).

Yep.

He gets Rylais way, way, way too late as a support to be considered a good support given how dependent he is on it for utility.

Mid lane he has problems but is pretty good. Watch the VoDs of OnlyJaximus playing him in NACL post pre-S4 patch.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
January 05 2014 21:21 GMT
#3300
Cassiopeia I think has support potential, but only paired with Twitch. Without Twitch Cass is like Sona/Annie lite. With Twitch Cass is a level 1 doublekilling machine.

And since Twitch I think is considered weak right now, Cass kinda meh.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
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