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On January 01 2014 00:45 mr_tolkien wrote:
I feel like nobody here understands what cait is picked for and what compositions she fits in.
For her to be really good in soloQ, she'd have to be batshit OP.
Except she is really good in soloq and you are the person who has no clue what he is talking about.
Try playing with a shit support as jinx vs cait/zyra for example then talk.Caitlyn is the safest pick because you can 1v2 if you are good enough and easily farm safely.Same shit as ezreal.Not feeding is a big deal.
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On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
Jinx has no movement escape though.
Jinx's burst is straight up op'd though. A lot of fotm adc's are burst oriented and cait just doesn't fit in that meta.
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On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
Except Caitlyn has much better innate escape, and has a better wave clear.
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On January 01 2014 00:28 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 00:05 Sufficiency wrote:On December 31 2013 20:40 TheHumanSensation wrote:
I've been enjoying Ashe/Leona lately. With all the bruisers / off-tanks / what-have-you running around, it's a good mix of single target lockdown if you're being dived, as well as the AoE for the hopeful big teamfight. In lane it just feels generally strong, if you win a trade you get a kill, and you pretty much can't die. Ashe burst is too low though. Try Lucian/Graves + Leona.  volley hurts volley + 100% crit auto at lvl 1 is pretty derp
It's a shame it's telegraphed as all hell.
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Plus no gapcloser for Ashe. And W can be blocked by minions.
Simply put, Leona lvl 2 E lands with graves = free kill, with Ashe it doesn't really do much.
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Jinx has stronger burst than Graves with longer range... for single-target at least. If you're willing to attack twice in bazooka mode then she's also got stronger AoE burst. I mean, it's not like powerful AoE burst mitigated by short effective range was Graves' shtick, after all.
Btw, his passive was supposed to be a big deal with how tankier it makes him and how the longer he stays in the fight, the harder he is to take down, what with the whole "bruiser-ish AD" feel he was supposed to give. Does it really make itself felt?
I pretty much only play him when I play AD (sometimes Ashe or Sivir, but AD in itself is so rare that I can't compare) and I still feel like I'm a squishy champ. If they have the potential to 100-0 I'll be dead before it kicks in, and if their damage is frontloaded I'll have 20 bonus resistances once I'm down to 300 HP anyway.
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On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
I think Jinx plays extremely differently from Caitlyn.
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On January 01 2014 01:08 Alaric wrote:
Jinx has stronger burst than Graves with longer range... for single-target at least. If you're willing to attack twice in bazooka mode then she's also got stronger AoE burst. I mean, it's not like powerful AoE burst mitigated by short effective range was Graves' shtick, after all.
Btw, his passive was supposed to be a big deal with how tankier it makes him and how the longer he stays in the fight, the harder he is to take down, what with the whole "bruiser-ish AD" feel he was supposed to give. Does it really make itself felt?
I pretty much only play him when I play AD (sometimes Ashe or Sivir, but AD in itself is so rare that I can't compare) and I still feel like I'm a squishy champ. If they have the potential to 100-0 I'll be dead before it kicks in, and if their damage is frontloaded I'll have 20 bonus resistances once I'm down to 300 HP anyway.
Sure but with proper attack cancelling you can maintain 10 stacks.
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I meant in teamfights and stuff, where you can't really precharge it. Assassins are your bane because someone initiates and then you get jumped by a champion aiming at killing you in a second or maybe three (like LB) and your passive can't start ticking in these situations.
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Well you can't have everything  .
He already has really good aoe spells with ad ratio, a gapcloser, and a steroid... he is the only adc with a defensive steroid.
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On January 01 2014 00:53 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
Jinx has no movement escape though. Jinx's burst is straight up op'd though. A lot of fotm adc's are burst oriented and cait just doesn't fit in that meta.
jinx's w is such a longer range its effectively a better escape than caits, because it can be used earlier in the chase, to use caits you have to be in range to be hit by things like vi ult or whatever, so its really a low value skill.
the common cait damage combo of e q is matched by Ws damage for less mana.
jinx's traps are just straight up better against good players, people who wont just run in to a trap they dotn have to will be worse off against jinx than cait.
jinx has flat out higher damage potential and her ult is actually worth using in combat as well as the long range finisher.
and jinx can siege towers just as easily.
i just dont see a situation where you think "damn i wish was caitlyn" over jinx any more.
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On January 01 2014 00:45 mr_tolkien wrote:
I feel like nobody here understands what cait is picked for and what compositions she fits in.
For her to be really good in soloQ, she'd have to be batshit OP.
Everyone knows she's good at taking down turrets early and sieges/defenses, stop acting like it's some kind of special 1337 knowledge.
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Well that was my point: does Graves' passive make itself felt compared to the other marksmen, since I don't play the role/others enough to be able to notice myself. And even with the passive I'm still squishier than when I buy Zhonya on Orianna or go semi-tanky as Vi. 
On January 01 2014 01:25 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 00:53 wei2coolman wrote:On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
Jinx has no movement escape though. Jinx's burst is straight up op'd though. A lot of fotm adc's are burst oriented and cait just doesn't fit in that meta. jinx's w is such a longer range its effectively a better escape than caits, because it can be used earlier in the chase, to use caits you have to be in range to be hit by things like vi ult or whatever, so its really a low value skill.the common cait damage combo of e q is matched by Ws damage for less mana. jinx's traps are just straight up better against good players, people who wont just run in to a trap they dotn have to will be worse off against jinx than cait. jinx has flat out higher damage potential and her ult is actually worth using in combat as well as the long range finisher. and jinx can siege towers just as easily. i just dont see a situation where you think "damn i wish was caitlyn" over jinx any more.
Either you're talking about Cait's W, in which case it's, uh, not her escape skill, or about E, in which case the knock-back is the escape part, not the slow, so you don't "have to be in range of Vi's ult".
Cait doesn't casually cast EQ as a "damage combo", she does it in certain circumstances and she otherwise uses Q alone, especially for poke.
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Jinx's W has a huge casting animation though. Often I feel it is not even worth the effort to try to slow someone coming at you.
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'explicit synergy' is a nice way to put it, it's sort of what i'm looking for in particular. synergies above and beyond vague associations between 'types' of supports and adcs.
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On January 01 2014 01:25 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2014 00:53 wei2coolman wrote:On January 01 2014 00:37 turdburgler wrote:
i feel like caitlyn is just overshadowed in every sense by jinx.
Jinx has no movement escape though. Jinx's burst is straight up op'd though. A lot of fotm adc's are burst oriented and cait just doesn't fit in that meta. jinx's w is such a longer range its effectively a better escape than caits, because it can be used earlier in the chase, to use caits you have to be in range to be hit by things like vi ult or whatever, so its really a low value skill. the common cait damage combo of e q is matched by Ws damage for less mana. jinx's traps are just straight up better against good players, people who wont just run in to a trap they dotn have to will be worse off against jinx than cait. jinx has flat out higher damage potential and her ult is actually worth using in combat as well as the long range finisher. and jinx can siege towers just as easily. i just dont see a situation where you think "damn i wish was caitlyn" over jinx any more.
How what where why do you compare the slowing part of jinx's "escape" with caitlyns wallhop fuckyouguys im going home escape?
Yes Jinx's damage is higher endgame. She has a ton lower range then caitlyn at the start though (which is actually one of the, if not straightup THE, selling point of caitlyn; cus it let's her bully any lane when played properly) and nothing to make gaps with. Cait's traps are better for sieging because they give you long time area control. You say people don't run into the traps, but I see even pro's running into them so maybe you just aren't looking right? oO
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because apart from jumping walls which i admit is a nice bonus for cait, the whole purpose of an escape is to stop people from getting to you, nothing more or less. if you have a 1500+ range slow that deals a lot of damage thats going to be at least as useful as the 3-400 unit slow + dash that cait has.
obviously there will be times there cait has the superior tool for the situation, but on the balance of situations over a full game i dont see it being worth the trade off as a plus point for cait. and of course players sometimes run in to traps but for the most part they dont, 9/10 traps go pretty much wasted in any situation. where as the chompers are a much more controlled skill leading to kills a lot more of the time.
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TIL Tristana's W is a shit escape skill, same as Arcane Shift, making Ezreal a worse escapee and thus less safe than Jinx, and cocoon is a stronger escape skill than Slice and Dice or Living Shadow.
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COMPARISON OF JINX W AND CAIT E AS AN ESCAPE
1 GUY CHASING UR ASS:
JINX W ABOUT EQUAL TO CAIT E
5 GUYS CHASING UR ASS:
GOOD LUCK JINX
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Jinx's zap only works if you see them coming and hit it (remember how telegraphed it is) before they're close enough to CC you in return. If someone like Leona or Thresh gets ahold of you, or even something like a Zyra E, Caitlin's net is going to be an infinitely more effective escape than zap + flame chompers combined.
Saying that zap is a better escape tool because it slows the opponents - with that reasoning immobile carries should start taking exhaust over flash.
edit: Also nyx made a pretty good point, lol.
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EPT
