EPT![[image loading]](http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lox02eaI2C1r0wgiuo1_400.gif)
it feels like the gold difference between a winning team and a losing team has been dramatically decreased
[Patch 3.14] PreSeason 4 General Discussion - Page 32
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21247 Posts
it feels like the gold difference between a winning team and a losing team has been dramatically decreased | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
At this point we're gonna need buybacks to actually have something to spend gold on once we hit the late game (aka 30 minute mark). Or an item active that does damage based on amount of gold in your inventory. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On November 23 2013 01:58 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: it feels like the gold difference between a winning team and a losing team has been dramatically decreased Ugh. That's so bad. I hope it's just an adjustment period or it gets hella fixed before competitive shit rolls around. T_T | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
So like, in 10 min, it gives you 500 gold, in 20 min it gives you 1000 gold. Since the item is way better than the other 2, either it needs a nerf or other 2 need a buff. I think the reason support has way too much gold not because of the gold item, but the way assist "streak" works right now. You get bonus gold for assist as long as you have 2 more assist than kill (for example, kill 0, assist 2,3,4,5,6). Moreover, death and kill doesn't break the "streak" | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
But honestly, right now, I don't enjoy the game, and I usually like when this game changes up. They have taken away huge elements of skill from the game, from drafting to farming to objective control to maintaining leads. Right now it's just a gold free for all with limited counterplay throughout the entire game. As far as champions? Nasus is absurd with all this free gold, Taric is huge every game, Annie and Fiddle are unreal bot (and I'm sure that's only the start, there are plenty of mages that are insane bot), Rengar/Twitch/Eve have minuscule counterplay... Targon's/Relic is completely out of control. Uhg. It's just really ugly right now. EDIT: In my opinion, the new patch has completely changed the way bot and jungle works (3/5 of the game). It's also changed drafting, midgame objective pressure, speed of game scaling, ability to maintain leads, and vision. And none of it has been for the better. | ||
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
Also, this patch is crazy fun. I feel like a cowboy in the Wild West. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:01 canikizu wrote: I guess it's just me, I don't think Targon is that absurd. It's the best item out of the 3 new ones, but it gives you what? 1 creep every 30 sec, which is like 25gold (1 melee minion) / 30sec = 8 gp10, and gives your lane partner another 10 gold/30sec. So like, in 10 min, it gives you 500 gold, in 20 min it gives you 1000 gold. Since the item is way better than the other 2, either it needs a nerf or other 2 need a buff. I think the reason support has way too much gold not because of the gold item, but the way assist "streak" right now. You get bonus gold for assist as long as you have 2 more assist than kill (for example, kill 0, assist 2,3,4,5,6). Moreover, death and kill doesn't break the "streak" With 4x Targon you can have 5k+ free gold for your team every game by 30 minutes. Easily. That's almost 8 dragons of gold, but instead of grouping to take an objective to get it - you got it for free while shoving and healing! | ||
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AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:03 GhandiEAGLE wrote: Whenever I see that Scrooge McDuck GIF, I can't get past the fact that he would be smashed to jelly against those coins. They're not liquid. Also, this patch is crazy fun. I feel like a cowboy in the Wild West. Stop ruining the magic of my childhood. I'm personally enjoying the Nasus VU (sans VO, I know) and playing him in the jungle. Never done it before and it's fun stuff. Incredible that he can do so much damage AND neuter an ADC in every fight. Bark. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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canikizu
4860 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:04 LaM wrote: With 4x Targon you can have 5k+ free gold for your team every game by 30 minutes. Easily. That's almost 8 dragons of gold, but instead of grouping to take an objective to get it - you got it for free while shoving and healing! With the old 4x Philosopher's Stone, you can have almost 4k gold for your team every game by 30 minutes too. That's how gp10 works. Hell, in s3, you can even stack gold item, so if your team has 4 philosopher stone and 4 kage pick, you have over 6k gold by 30 minutes by just being in the game, not even need to stick to your lane partners. Targon is simply the best one out of 3 new items, and Riot is gonna nerf it soon, or buff other 2. That's gonna be our new normal. On November 23 2013 02:06 Requizen wrote: The only thing that I dislike about Assist Streaks is that it now dissuades supports from sacrificing themselves for the carry. Before, you'd be ok taking a death if it meant your carry got away alive, because you weren't worth as much and they needed to be alive to farm and keep BT stacks and what not. Now you can't eat that many deaths if you want to keep up your Streak. Death/Kill doesn't reset your "streak" "streak" is a vague way to say it, the way it works it as long you have more than 2 assist than kill, you will receive a bonus gold. That is why a 1/10/26 sona can have more gold than a 17/5/11 caitlyn despite caitlyn participating in more fight and having more kill. | ||
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LaM
United States1321 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:13 canikizu wrote: With the old 4x Philosopher's Stone, you can have almost 4k gold for your team every game by 30 minutes too. That's how gp10 works. Hell, in s3, you can even stack gold item, so if your team has 4 philosopher stone and 4 kage pick, you have over 6k gold by 30 minutes by just being in the game, not even need to stick to your lane partners. Targon is simply the best one out of 3 new items, and Riot is gonna nerf it soon, or buff other 2. That's gonna be our new normal. Death/Kill doesn't reset your "streak" "streak" is a vague way to say it, the way it works it as long you have more than 2 assist than kill, you will receive a bonus gold. That is why a 1/10/26 sona can have more gold than a 17/5/11 caitlyn despite caitlyn participating in more fight and having more kill. Lmao. There is no comparison between philo/kages (which pay for themselves after 20+ minutes and are only good on a couple of champs) and Targons (which pays for itself after 5 minutes, is good on literally everybody, and provides huge lane control through shove and sustain). They aren't going to buff the other 2. This won't be the new normal. It's going to be nerfed to the ground lol. When are we getting that diamond+ subreddit again. Holy fk. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12084 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:04 LaM wrote: With 4x Targon you can have 5k+ free gold for your team every game by 30 minutes. Easily. That's almost 8 dragons of gold, but instead of grouping to take an objective to get it - you got it for free while shoving and healing! It's the basic underlying problem with it. While I don't disagree with the other gold gen changes that were made (though I would argue that there's still far too much gold floating about in games now, and other forms of gold gen, say farm, needs to be scaled back now), Targ's is redic right about now. Preventing the passive from activating on champions whom also carry the item (relic/targs) would be a decent step forward, in addition to nerfing the actual base stats (because health+health regen makes it too efficient and universally useful, like HoG's health boost). As is, it's so ridiculously imbalanced, especially compared to other gold gen options. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
Targon's Bargins, bro. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
Then at 6 30 i go back, then i take my 2 buff and do the same. Finished the game at 6/0/20 with a gold income on par with everybody. Felt great ahaha | ||
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
I remember when SK.MC said that Starcraft 2's meta was one-dimensional. Just look at League and the fact that players have forced themselves through idolization of pro players in the scene to play the same role in the same position every game. No shaking it up, and Riot is balancing around this believe it or not... I am rather sick of the way the League community currently dictates the meta with an iron fist. You can actually get reported and punished with a ban for picking against the metagame and your whiny-bitch-of-a-teammates' demands. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
If 2-1-2 is going to be superior to having a jungler, what do all these teams that have junglers that can't play support do? What happens to new support players they get when Riot patches this stuff out of the game? On November 23 2013 02:20 LaM wrote: Lmao. There is no comparison between philo/kages (which pay for themselves after 20+ minutes and are only good on a couple of champs) and Targons (which pays for itself after 5 minutes, is good on literally everybody, and provides huge lane control through shove and sustain). They aren't going to buff the other 2. This won't be the new normal. It's going to be nerfed to the ground lol. There's also the fact that you can start with one, whereas gp10 is usually only buyable after your first back, and hasn't paid off by the time the game moves into midgame teamfighting. You can start the game with a Relic Shield, and have it essentially be free long before lanes break up. | ||
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Celial
2602 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:22 Clbull wrote: Is this going to shake up the metagame at all? I'm quite sick of the whole "pick order bitch" crap that goes on in each League game when all I want to do is play the champion I want in the lane I want. I don't want to be forced to play as or with a jungler. I don't want to be forced to play as or with a support or ADC in the bottom lane. I don't want to be forced to play as or with an AP mid and vice versa. I remember when SK.MC said that Starcraft 2's meta was one-dimensional. Just look at League and the fact that players have forced themselves through idolization of pro players in the scene to play the same role in the same position every game. No shaking it up, and Riot is balancing around this believe it or not... I am rather sick of the way the League community currently dictates the meta with an iron fist. You can actually get reported and punished with a ban for picking against the metagame and your whiny-bitch-of-a-teammates' demands. If someone else wants to play the lane you want as a carry, you have to shut your little bitch mouth and deal with it. Everything else goes. Although for the "top lane support/jungle" role you should play something tanky that can actually clear jungle. So another toplaner or jungle champ. "Bot lane support" is whatever the fuck you want, another AP carry, a bruiser or a legit support. | ||
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Inflexion
Canada560 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:13 canikizu wrote: With the old 4x Philosopher's Stone, you can have almost 4k gold for your team every game by 30 minutes too. That's how gp10 works. Hell, in s3, you can even stack gold item, so if your team has 4 philosopher stone and 4 kage pick, you have over 6k gold by 30 minutes by just being in the game, not even need to stick to your lane partners. Targon is simply the best one out of 3 new items, and Riot is gonna nerf it soon, or buff other 2. That's gonna be our new normal. Death/Kill doesn't reset your "streak" "streak" is a vague way to say it, the way it works it as long you have more than 2 assist than kill, you will receive a bonus gold. That is why a 1/10/26 sona can have more gold than a 17/5/11 caitlyn despite caitlyn participating in more fight and having more kill. The problem with Targon is not the fact that it generates gold over a period of time. The problem stems from its 'cost-effectiveness'. It gives you hp WHILE also generating gold for you. It was the exact same problem with Heart of Gold back in S2. Having the HP boost, means that in combat/duels, you actually gain an immediate advantage in power. So in the short-term, someone who invested in an immediate (HP, Dorans, Armor, etc.) power spoke should NOT have a long term gain of gold as well. For example, if I purchase a Doran Blade instead of Relic Shield, when it comes to laning, I should have a distinct advantage if we were to trade/duel with my lane opponent as I invested in short term(assuming equally skilled). But the problem with Relic Shield/Targon's is that you are able to go toe to toe with the Doran Blade purchaser (or close to it) AND gain massive amounts of gold in the long term. Basically, if you purchase a GP10 item, players should not be gaining a short-term immediate combat advantage while the GP10 item is taking time to pay itself off as GP10 is an investment long term. Philospher's Stone stayed in the game because it only provided mana regen which had almost zero effect on all-in's or duels. | ||
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trollbone
France1905 Posts
On November 23 2013 02:22 Clbull wrote: Is this going to shake up the metagame at all? I'm quite sick of the whole "pick order bitch" crap that goes on in each League game when all I want to do is play the champion I want in the lane I want. I don't want to be forced to play as or with a jungler. I don't want to be forced to play as or with a support or ADC in the bottom lane. I don't want to be forced to play as or with an AP mid and vice versa. I remember when SK.MC said that Starcraft 2's meta was one-dimensional. Just look at League and the fact that players have forced themselves through idolization of pro players in the scene to play the same role in the same position every game. No shaking it up, and Riot is balancing around this believe it or not... I am rather sick of the way the League community currently dictates the meta with an iron fist. You can actually get reported and punished with a ban for picking against the metagame and your whiny-bitch-of-a-teammates' demands. frankly it's not that bad, i always played unconventional support (65% winrate in diamond with zilean support, fid (before he was awesome), soraka) and 75% of the time it was ok. Yep when ure team going to loose you are going to be blamed. On this patch everybody is doing it's own thing, i saw jayce support, mundo support, rammus top, maokai support, etc.... It's wild this patch, just try things around | ||
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