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On November 04 2013 06:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:
In my personal experience I've never seen a team with the support as shotcaller do well. Also I think it's dumb to have one shotcaller, two is far better, three is too many. The jungler HAS to make calls during laning, a good mid SHOULD be making calls early mid game, those responsibilities are just natural extensions of how the roles work.
I though Bloodwater was the shotcaller for Vulcun? That was going pretty well for them right?
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I think the "Xpecial shotcalled at allstars" is vastly overstated, Xpecial said that in his interview but I'm pretty sure it was only for minor botlane things, especially considering how talkative doublelift is during laning.
Saint was on that team and i find it hardly unlikely that some1 else was calling the shots. Especially because those were typical saint throw calls in the games vs china
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On November 04 2013 06:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:
In my personal experience I've never seen a team with the support as shotcaller do well. Also I think it's dumb to have one shotcaller, two is far better, three is too many. The jungler HAS to make calls during laning, a good mid SHOULD be making calls early mid game, those responsibilities are just natural extensions of how the roles work.
It's like tpa didn't win s2 worlds or something.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2013 07:04 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:
In my personal experience I've never seen a team with the support as shotcaller do well. Also I think it's dumb to have one shotcaller, two is far better, three is too many. The jungler HAS to make calls during laning, a good mid SHOULD be making calls early mid game, those responsibilities are just natural extensions of how the roles work. It's like tpa didn't win s2 worlds or something.
A lot of the early game calls TPA that bly is referring to were probably made by Ballz though.
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On November 04 2013 06:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:53 zulu_nation8 wrote:
In my personal experience I've never seen a team with the support as shotcaller do well. Also I think it's dumb to have one shotcaller, two is far better, three is too many. The jungler HAS to make calls during laning, a good mid SHOULD be making calls early mid game, those responsibilities are just natural extensions of how the roles work. I though Bloodwater was the shotcaller for Vulcun? That was going pretty well for them right?
ManCloud has said that they've never really had a dedicated shot caller. Just when BloodWater joined he made them actually start communicating.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2013 06:27 Goragoth wrote:
I don't really know if it really is worth it playing with overseas ping. After watching iG get destroyed by I think it was MeatPlayground (one of the amateur NA teams at the time anyway) about a year ago (some IEM or IPL qualifier thing) I think the ping difference is really crippling (unless Chinese teams are much worse affected because of the Great Firewall, I don't know about that?).
And they beat CLG in the same qualifier.
But somehow the most inconsistent Chinese team losing a Bo1 somehow invalidates the value of practicing even with ping disadvantage despite also getting to practice and beat another team that went to Worlds?
Keep in mind that this was also at a time where the overall level of Chinese play wasn't that good, period. WE flew over for IPL Face Off and still lost to mediocre NA teams on LAN ping.
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Is there any news if s4 lcs format gunna change at all? Like more teams or w.e? Been watching lot of the amateur scene, there are some great [but throwy] new teams out there.
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Lemondogs being as good as disbanded unless they manage to recruit three players makes me wonder about how it'll be handled for the EU LCS.
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China26351 Posts
Bot lane probably trades the most and it's way more important for them to come out even or ahead in lane compared to top/mid. It just doesn't make sense if the support has to worry about other things pre lv9.
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Joe Miller/ Dexter said on Twitter that the spot remains with the organisation and they will build a new team around it.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 04 2013 07:19 Alaric wrote:
Lemondogs being as good as disbanded unless they manage to recruit three players makes me wonder about how it'll be handled for the EU LCS.
Well there's the speculated team of kev1n/shook/froggen/tabzz/nrated. Even if it doesn't happen kev1n would probably get picked up, they could pull nrated back to active play and it'd be 4/5 there.
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On November 04 2013 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:34 cLutZ wrote:On November 04 2013 05:55 wei2coolman wrote:On November 04 2013 05:49 Ketara wrote:
I don't understand how people can retain their TSM fanboyism.
They're still douchebags, and now they're also no longer the best talent in NA. Let it go. What? Yung bjersen is a god. I'd root for him no matter what team he's on. Now he actually has a botlane that can do stuff, they gunna shit on the NA teams so hard. As far as tsm still sucking compared to world class teams, that'll still happen until dyrus stops feeding 8 kills in first 5 min of game. Dyrus only is feeding all those kills because TOO is too dumb to recognize the strat of every team is "Shut down Dyrus, don't let Regi get fed". Though this was part of the problem. There were tonz of glaring solo plays by dyrus that led to his performance in worlds. Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:36 dae wrote:On November 04 2013 05:57 TheYango wrote:On November 04 2013 04:52 Slusher wrote:
it's conceivable.
honestly the way Korean teams looked at worlds (good but not god mode) I feel like the playing field could be pretty even if the ability to practice with Asian teams at lan speed was available to top NA/EU teams, unfortunately it is not. Why the fuck does it matter if you play on LAN ping? Just play on foreign servers and scrim. If you are good enough to have a chance, you won't get stomped hard enough that you don't learn a lot, which means it will be worthwhile. If you're getting stomped so hard that you don't learn anything, then you're not close enough in skill for you to have a chance anyway. It's what the Koreans teams did when there were like only 3 relevant Korean teams and they sucked--they scrimmed on NA, lost every game, but improved. Playing on 200 ping will make you lose lane every time vs competant people anywhere near your skill level. Ping is a much much bigger deal then your making it out to be. Also, its REALLY hard to adjust to switching from playing with high ping to low ping, and vice versa, and it's just not worth it. Still not an excuse. Teams should be trying to learn from each other, even if shit ping.
Well, its not like Dyrus is some sort of great player. Luckily, with Bjergsen on the team, and the eventual replacement of TOO with competency, he will be able to just be good again.
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United States47024 Posts
On November 04 2013 07:27 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Bot lane probably trades the most and it's way more important for them to come out even or ahead in lane compared to top/mid. It just doesn't make sense if the support has to worry about other things pre lv9.
It depends on what your expectation of the shot-caller's role is.
I agree that most of the early-game things are an extension of the jungler's role, but I don't think that necessarily makes them a second shot-caller. It's just what the jungler's supposed to do.
Really a matter of semantics. Like I said, with S2 TPA, Mistake was ostensibly the sole shot-caller, but Ballz probably made most of the important early game decisions in his role as jungler. Nobody called him a 2nd shot-caller for that.
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On November 04 2013 06:25 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:On November 04 2013 05:43 zer0das wrote:
TSM will still suck next season. Depends on how the shotcalling situation rolls out. It is probably one of the main reasons why TSM never "upgraded" their mid (outside of Regi owning the team), and its critical no matter how much better Bjergson is than Regi as a player. If TSM can't adjust to it (probably unless Bjergson takes up that role, given none of the rest of TSM really has the personality for it[especially after years of following Captain Regi]), they're going to tank. Most certainly not into promos (they're still strong as a whole), but they may sink to CLG status (not quite Crs, though). Xspecial shot called at All Stars, he can shot call for TSM. Dyrus won't die a lot if he is playing tanky champions like he is used to and not top Karthus [good lord what a terrible pick]
WTF? Dyrus' top Karthus was fine. Best on his team in a few games and always solid. A long way from a "terrible pick".
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Damn, I'm getting a lot better at Lucian. The rape train has no breaks so far.
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Man, I remember when everybody thought Lucian was terrible. Good times.
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On November 04 2013 07:57 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:On November 04 2013 06:34 cLutZ wrote:On November 04 2013 05:55 wei2coolman wrote:On November 04 2013 05:49 Ketara wrote:
I don't understand how people can retain their TSM fanboyism.
They're still douchebags, and now they're also no longer the best talent in NA. Let it go. What? Yung bjersen is a god. I'd root for him no matter what team he's on. Now he actually has a botlane that can do stuff, they gunna shit on the NA teams so hard. As far as tsm still sucking compared to world class teams, that'll still happen until dyrus stops feeding 8 kills in first 5 min of game. Dyrus only is feeding all those kills because TOO is too dumb to recognize the strat of every team is "Shut down Dyrus, don't let Regi get fed". Though this was part of the problem. There were tonz of glaring solo plays by dyrus that led to his performance in worlds. On November 04 2013 06:36 dae wrote:On November 04 2013 05:57 TheYango wrote:On November 04 2013 04:52 Slusher wrote:
it's conceivable.
honestly the way Korean teams looked at worlds (good but not god mode) I feel like the playing field could be pretty even if the ability to practice with Asian teams at lan speed was available to top NA/EU teams, unfortunately it is not. Why the fuck does it matter if you play on LAN ping? Just play on foreign servers and scrim. If you are good enough to have a chance, you won't get stomped hard enough that you don't learn a lot, which means it will be worthwhile. If you're getting stomped so hard that you don't learn anything, then you're not close enough in skill for you to have a chance anyway. It's what the Koreans teams did when there were like only 3 relevant Korean teams and they sucked--they scrimmed on NA, lost every game, but improved. Playing on 200 ping will make you lose lane every time vs competant people anywhere near your skill level. Ping is a much much bigger deal then your making it out to be. Also, its REALLY hard to adjust to switching from playing with high ping to low ping, and vice versa, and it's just not worth it. Still not an excuse. Teams should be trying to learn from each other, even if shit ping. Well, its not like Dyrus is some sort of great player. Luckily, with Bjergsen on the team, and the eventual replacement of TOO with competency, he will be able to just be good again.
I don't really get why people seem to think TOO sucks. TOO never really stands out as spectacular, but he, along with Dyrus, have always been very consistent. At Worlds, TOO played quite well every game.
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Dyrus seems the epitome of inconsistent. He almost always chokes when it matters and does well when it doesn't. Hmm maybe that means he is consistent then just in a bad way?
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On November 04 2013 08:39 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 07:57 cLutZ wrote:On November 04 2013 06:38 wei2coolman wrote:On November 04 2013 06:34 cLutZ wrote:On November 04 2013 05:55 wei2coolman wrote:On November 04 2013 05:49 Ketara wrote:
I don't understand how people can retain their TSM fanboyism.
They're still douchebags, and now they're also no longer the best talent in NA. Let it go. What? Yung bjersen is a god. I'd root for him no matter what team he's on. Now he actually has a botlane that can do stuff, they gunna shit on the NA teams so hard. As far as tsm still sucking compared to world class teams, that'll still happen until dyrus stops feeding 8 kills in first 5 min of game. Dyrus only is feeding all those kills because TOO is too dumb to recognize the strat of every team is "Shut down Dyrus, don't let Regi get fed". Though this was part of the problem. There were tonz of glaring solo plays by dyrus that led to his performance in worlds. On November 04 2013 06:36 dae wrote:On November 04 2013 05:57 TheYango wrote:On November 04 2013 04:52 Slusher wrote:
it's conceivable.
honestly the way Korean teams looked at worlds (good but not god mode) I feel like the playing field could be pretty even if the ability to practice with Asian teams at lan speed was available to top NA/EU teams, unfortunately it is not. Why the fuck does it matter if you play on LAN ping? Just play on foreign servers and scrim. If you are good enough to have a chance, you won't get stomped hard enough that you don't learn a lot, which means it will be worthwhile. If you're getting stomped so hard that you don't learn anything, then you're not close enough in skill for you to have a chance anyway. It's what the Koreans teams did when there were like only 3 relevant Korean teams and they sucked--they scrimmed on NA, lost every game, but improved. Playing on 200 ping will make you lose lane every time vs competant people anywhere near your skill level. Ping is a much much bigger deal then your making it out to be. Also, its REALLY hard to adjust to switching from playing with high ping to low ping, and vice versa, and it's just not worth it. Still not an excuse. Teams should be trying to learn from each other, even if shit ping. Well, its not like Dyrus is some sort of great player. Luckily, with Bjergsen on the team, and the eventual replacement of TOO with competency, he will be able to just be good again. I don't really get why people seem to think TOO sucks. TOO never really stands out as spectacular, but he, along with Dyrus, have always been very consistent. At Worlds, TOO played quite well every game.
The fact that everyone seems to think he has to be micromanaged, and that he doesn't play Lee Sin basically. He could jungle on a team that had really strong lanes. Any one of the TSM players could win a world championship. Its just a question of who do you think is the worst relatively. TSM's losses always seem to happen earlygame, when the jungler has the most presence. I dont feel like its a coincidence.
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On November 04 2013 08:14 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Damn, I'm getting a lot better at Lucian. The rape train has no breaks so far.
Do the Bork/BT/LW instead of TF, once i did it i never looked back.
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EPT
