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[Patch 3.13] Heimer Rework General Discussion - Page 4

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
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Lord Tolkien
Profile Joined November 2012
United States12084 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-30 00:18:41
October 30 2013 00:17 GMT
#61
I am interested to see how the Heimerdinger rework pans out, being as big a fan of the donger myself.
"His father is pretty juicy tbh." ~WaveofShadow
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
October 30 2013 00:19 GMT
#62
Will the Sivir rework actually amount to anything? Actually, same question for the Heimer rework.

At least I won't have to constantly scroll to find dragon/baron timers anymore
In Inca we trust
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
October 30 2013 00:30 GMT
#63
Sivir rework danced completely around her problems and sidegraded random stats.
Carrilord has arrived.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-30 00:38:50
October 30 2013 00:32 GMT
#64
On October 30 2013 09:30 Slusher wrote:
Sivir rework danced completely around her problems and sidegraded random stats.


Yeah, she really just needs a reliable way of staying safe lategame.

Doesn't matter what they change or how insane her numbers are if she has such low range ands no reliable escapes no one will play her over a similar champ like Graves.

No reason to. Graves pushes lanes just as hard. Graves has escape. Graves has the same midgame dominance, more burst, same range, and a dash.

Even if you just wanted to hard push with like Sivir+Raka Cait does that better and as a 1 position does far far better job of actually carrying lategame fights.

Only thing I could thing of as to pick Cait over another AD is if you runnning a double AD comp (vayne top or something) but thing is they took away her team attackspeed boosts. LOL. She literally does nothing that any other pick does not.
Haiq343
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2548 Posts
October 30 2013 00:34 GMT
#65
On October 30 2013 08:52 Ketara wrote:
I think the reason why Annie is successful in solo queue as a bot lane support is the same reason why she's so successful in solo queue in mid.

Lots of "Oh I didn't realize Annie did that much damage"

I feel like at a more base level, Annie support is just a weaker Sona support. I can see it in 2v1's where her big autoattack range makes a tremendous difference and the lack of sustain isn't as important, but in 2v2's not so much.


And I agree with Tolkien, the mana cost reductions aren't a big deal. People shouldn't be acting like they're a big deal.

They don't matter for soraka per se, but it's taking a potential balancing aspect and all but removing it. I can't count the number of times I, or an equally bad opponent has volley'd themselves too low to ult. There's nothing inherently wrong with tweaking ult mana costs downward, but doing it for every champion is suggestive of a lack of precision. And much worse, it keeps pushing mana to be a non-thing and rendering every champion resourceless (which was/is a major problem with tear/grails). Mana should matter, it creates situations that reward players for being strategic and adds depth to gameplay.
I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination encircles the world. -Einstein
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
October 30 2013 00:37 GMT
#66
may not be the most elegant game design but it is consistent with their push for faster game pace, more back and forth.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 30 2013 00:40 GMT
#67
On October 30 2013 09:17 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I am interested to see how the Heimerdinger rework pans out, being as big a fan of the donger myself.


My smurf's name is Dong Quixote, there does not get a bigger fan than I.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 30 2013 00:45 GMT
#68
On October 30 2013 08:21 cLutZ wrote:
Ashe is the only one on that list that I felt like deserved an ult cost reduction.

Viktor actually has costs and shit (and can't rush grail and still 100-0 people like Lux does), but dropping the ult to 100 is dumb. Something like a flat 150 would have been fine, still more expensive than his main nuke, but not as crippling as 175-225 to his already limited pool.

On October 30 2013 07:54 dae wrote:
Sivir changes are an overall buff, 80% attack speed steroid for 3 attacks that aoe on a 5 second cooldown is really strong... She will be an adc with focus on aoe splash damage. If they slightly increased her attack range she would be top tier, but laning phase vs adc's like cait might still mean shes not competively viable.

Yeah, yeah, Riot said that too.
Sivir's niche is pushing

Cait, Corki, Graves, Varus, Lucian, Jinx all better at either nuking a wave down, consistently pushing the lane (Sivir goes oom after 3 waves) or sieging/killing towers.
and also AoE damage

Lemme see these patch notes.
Deals 50/55/60/65/70% damage to all secondary targets (falling off by 20% per subsequent target)

Varus, Graves, Corki, possibly MF have stronger AoE burst. Lucian, Jinx, Corki again have stronger sustained AoE damage.

Putting that fall-off on her Ricochet is so dumb, and makes it even easier to have you fucked up by random minion/pet-summoning champions. She's already down to half her AD starting from the second bounce. Obviously since she has 3 bounces it adds up rather quickly (something like 400 damage to said second bounce at max level and some items) but since she's only got 500 range and is very likely to be chased out of the fight it makes it really dependant on the bounce range to see whether or not it's actually usable in realistic situations.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Cixah
Profile Joined July 2010
United States11285 Posts
October 30 2013 00:46 GMT
#69
On October 30 2013 08:01 Ketara wrote:
Big words coming from Cixah.

Are you gonna stream the Heimering?

I'm sad they didn't go through with the Lux ult range buff


I've got the funds cleared away for Cyber Monday. I've got a general idea as to what I want to build (I've already done one myself before, so I'm not too worried), but suggestions for a 900-1100 build is helpful .
Hug The Goat! Hug the Goat! Hug the Goat!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 30 2013 00:46 GMT
#70
Soon all long cd ults only going to cost 100 mana.
liftlift > tsm
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
October 30 2013 00:55 GMT
#71
Is this whole Bruiser ADC thing becoming more standard?
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 30 2013 01:01 GMT
#72
On October 30 2013 09:46 wei2coolman wrote:
Soon all long cd ults only going to cost 100 mana.

Soon all new champions will be manaless and then mana will become a "toxic" mechanic
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 30 2013 01:03 GMT
#73
On October 30 2013 09:34 Haiq343 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2013 08:52 Ketara wrote:
I think the reason why Annie is successful in solo queue as a bot lane support is the same reason why she's so successful in solo queue in mid.

Lots of "Oh I didn't realize Annie did that much damage"

I feel like at a more base level, Annie support is just a weaker Sona support. I can see it in 2v1's where her big autoattack range makes a tremendous difference and the lack of sustain isn't as important, but in 2v2's not so much.


And I agree with Tolkien, the mana cost reductions aren't a big deal. People shouldn't be acting like they're a big deal.

They don't matter for soraka per se, but it's taking a potential balancing aspect and all but removing it. I can't count the number of times I, or an equally bad opponent has volley'd themselves too low to ult. There's nothing inherently wrong with tweaking ult mana costs downward, but doing it for every champion is suggestive of a lack of precision. And much worse, it keeps pushing mana to be a non-thing and rendering every champion resourceless (which was/is a major problem with tear/grails). Mana should matter, it creates situations that reward players for being strategic and adds depth to gameplay.


This statement is so incredibly hyperbolic.

5 of 117 champions had mana costs reduced. "doing it for every champion"

These mana cost changes are so minor. SO minor.

Like, take Varus for example.

At level 6 in a 2 minute period (the cooldown of his ultimate), if Varus is using all his abilities on cooldown, he uses 1450 mana. This change reduces that from 1450 to 1430. Literally changing his mana consumption by less than 2%.

But oh my god, mana is now a pointless stat, these champions may as well be resourceless. What? Seriously?
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 30 2013 01:06 GMT
#74
Ketara, you're not serious are you? Low manacosts have been a trend since talon release. It's not just those 5 champs. Think about item reowrks as well. The changes to tear and chalice...
liftlift > tsm
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
October 30 2013 01:08 GMT
#75
You know a recent champion with high mana costs?

Luciannnnn
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 30 2013 01:10 GMT
#76
Of course I'm being serious.

I mean, I agree that newer champions aren't gated by mana like some older champions are.

But the mana costs of their ults isn't what's doing it. Reducing the mana cost of an ultimate doesn't change whether or not a champion is constrained by mana. All it does is reduce edge cases where at level 6 you barely don't have enough mana to cast your ult and feel like a moron, which isn't strategic or interesting gameplay it's just a stupid mistake that makes bad players feel bad about themselves.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 30 2013 01:20 GMT
#77
So you bring up varus instead of viktor? Which is a much bigger impact. And tbe reason it it doesn't matter for varus was cuz he was never initially inhibited by mana in the first place. Comparing full rotation with pre and post mana buff varus is pointless.
liftlift > tsm
Eiii
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2566 Posts
October 30 2013 01:21 GMT
#78
Can we talk about how sick the vilemaw icon is? I feel like it's the new santa baron, but way less exclusive for some dumb reason.

Def. gonna main that for a while, no question.
:3
red_
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8474 Posts
October 30 2013 01:23 GMT
#79
On October 30 2013 10:10 Ketara wrote:
Of course I'm being serious.

I mean, I agree that newer champions aren't gated by mana like some older champions are.

But the mana costs of their ults isn't what's doing it. Reducing the mana cost of an ultimate doesn't change whether or not a champion is constrained by mana. All it does is reduce edge cases where at level 6 you barely don't have enough mana to cast your ult and feel like a moron, which isn't strategic or interesting gameplay it's just a stupid mistake that makes bad players feel bad about themselves.


It's also not just the 5 in this patch, the reduced mana cost/flat 100 mana cost at all levels ult changes has been happening for a handful of patches now.

Then we move on to the non-ult abilities, which have been trending downward in mana-cost for almost every champion in the game since forever, but more aggressively so in recent patches.
How did the experience of working at Mr Burns' Nuclear Plant influence Homer's composition of the Iliad and Odyssey?
Dark_Chill
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada3353 Posts
October 30 2013 01:23 GMT
#80
What a huge J4 nerf. I'll never get an unexpected multiple knock-up ever again
Also, did Corki really have to be nerfed like that? I don't understand why Riot loves messing with base attack speed. Just reducing missile timing would've been fine imo, we were still seeing other ADs being played.
CUTE MAKES RIGHT
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