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On November 17 2013 08:53 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 03:28 overt wrote:On November 17 2013 02:12 thenexusp wrote:On November 17 2013 01:28 M2 wrote:
Riot pls, limiting the number of wards (to 3) that a champ can place on a map will not make no-supporters buying wards, it will just tie the good supporters hands to cover for them,,,,
,,,the throws are coming... While their external justification is "get everyone to ward!", the real reason for the ward change is to reduce vision in general -- there was way too much of it at top levels. And Riot's design philosophy is entirely against "trollable" mechanics so a team-wide limit on wards doesn't work, so they have to do per-player. By the way, not sure if this has been discussed yet, but did anyone notice in the s4 preseason preview video how they changed a bunch of bushes? The top/bot lane bushes are 3 segments instead of 2, the "banana bush" is much shorter (and much less banana", and the bush next to blue doesn't wrap around the corner anymore. Wonder what effects those will have... ... + also it seems the super minion spawns in front of the wave instead of behind it now. huh. Note that only top lane is 3 brush and bottom is still 2. Unless they changed it from what's on PBE. I think this is to make top harder to gank while keeping botlane the same (since it's much easier to gank top on live ). ? Why is top easier to gank (unless you include something like "because top laners don't ward" which really isn't anything to do with the brush itself). The Lanes were pretty exactly mirrored layout wise weren't they? Must admit I missed that change, but I deeply dislike the top lane bush change. It means trying to get vision control when you lane in that lane is harder (and less intuitive). Frankly I hoped they would "fix" wards to make them reveal the entire brush, while still leaving the layout alone. The way they did it seems like a lazy workaround which looks fairly stupid in some places (blue buff brush e.g.)
Iirc this was the reason given for the brush change. That top lane was easier to gank and the lane was too snowbally so Riot decided that the brush pattern on top could be changed to make lane ganking harder. Turret diving one guy is a lot easier than turret diving two not to mention most supports have some pretty pro ways to fuck up ganks between heals, knock ups, and AoE CC. That's on top of what you mentioned, that supports currently buy enough wards to place one in the lane brush to make lane ganks more difficult.
Most top laners, even in pro play, do not ward the side brush. Just river or tri-brush.
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On November 17 2013 10:38 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 08:53 Tula wrote:On November 17 2013 03:28 overt wrote:On November 17 2013 02:12 thenexusp wrote:On November 17 2013 01:28 M2 wrote:
Riot pls, limiting the number of wards (to 3) that a champ can place on a map will not make no-supporters buying wards, it will just tie the good supporters hands to cover for them,,,,
,,,the throws are coming... While their external justification is "get everyone to ward!", the real reason for the ward change is to reduce vision in general -- there was way too much of it at top levels. And Riot's design philosophy is entirely against "trollable" mechanics so a team-wide limit on wards doesn't work, so they have to do per-player. By the way, not sure if this has been discussed yet, but did anyone notice in the s4 preseason preview video how they changed a bunch of bushes? The top/bot lane bushes are 3 segments instead of 2, the "banana bush" is much shorter (and much less banana", and the bush next to blue doesn't wrap around the corner anymore. Wonder what effects those will have... ... + also it seems the super minion spawns in front of the wave instead of behind it now. huh. Note that only top lane is 3 brush and bottom is still 2. Unless they changed it from what's on PBE. I think this is to make top harder to gank while keeping botlane the same (since it's much easier to gank top on live ). ? Why is top easier to gank (unless you include something like "because top laners don't ward" which really isn't anything to do with the brush itself). The Lanes were pretty exactly mirrored layout wise weren't they? Must admit I missed that change, but I deeply dislike the top lane bush change. It means trying to get vision control when you lane in that lane is harder (and less intuitive). Frankly I hoped they would "fix" wards to make them reveal the entire brush, while still leaving the layout alone. The way they did it seems like a lazy workaround which looks fairly stupid in some places (blue buff brush e.g.) Iirc this was the reason given for the brush change. That top lane was easier to gank and the lane was too snowbally so Riot decided that the brush pattern on top could be changed to make lane ganking harder. Turret diving one guy is a lot easier than turret diving two not to mention most supports have some pretty pro ways to fuck up ganks between heals, knock ups, and AoE CC. That's on top of what you mentioned, that supports currently buy enough wards to place one in the lane brush to make lane ganks more difficult. Most top laners, even in pro play, do not ward the side brush. Just river or tri-brush.
Might create wonky 2v1 laning interactions.
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I was going to complain about them making the map asymmetrical, but it's already asymmetrical due to baron/dragon and that's probably way more important than any bush differences there might be.
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if they get removed, you'll get a refund, but i dont think they refund for rune nerfs.
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On November 17 2013 13:22 krndandaman wrote:
heard runes are gonna be changed drastically?
does that mean some runes will be gone?
if so i want a refund. i easily spent 60k+ ip on runes
Runes that don't fit their new structure will be removed. I think they said there was a few ideas they had in mind about how to fix issues like that, such as giving them in their proper slot or refunding.
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On November 17 2013 09:40 Sunaj wrote:I wish I hadn't uninstalled over the summer now in a vain attempt to quit :/
I'm confused, was it your attempt to quit that was vain, or your attempt to quit was in vain?
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On November 17 2013 15:03 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 09:40 Sunaj wrote:I wish I hadn't uninstalled over the summer now in a vain attempt to quit :/ I'm confused, was it your attempt to quit that was vain, or your attempt to quit was in vain?
they're not mutually exclusive yo
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On November 17 2013 15:03 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 09:40 Sunaj wrote:I wish I hadn't uninstalled over the summer now in a vain attempt to quit :/ I'm confused, was it your attempt to quit that was vain, or your attempt to quit was in vain?
I'm trying to think of a Vlad joke... But I'm dumb. Shit.
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90% of Vlad's lines are jokes, surely you could find something
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On November 17 2013 15:03 Dgiese wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 09:40 Sunaj wrote:I wish I hadn't uninstalled over the summer now in a vain attempt to quit :/ I'm confused, was it your attempt to quit that was vain, or your attempt to quit was in vain?
He tried (and failed) to stop Riot from bleeding his wallet dry.
... I'll show myself out.
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On November 17 2013 17:18 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
90% of Vlad's lines are jokes, surely you could find something
It was all... in Vayne.
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Stonewall posted a video about jungle gold and levels assuming constant clearing in the S4 jungle.
It seems like you're going to end up getting equivalent gold if you gank, less levels at all points in the game, and fewer combat stats in your items. A continuation of the trend from S2 to S3 I guess.
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1qs9aw/season_4_gold_comparison/
My personal take is I'm kind of used to these changes. I guess junglers will have to continue trying to do their best to help their laners. Maybe now we'll have less gold than supports come mid game and be unable to duel them.
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you sound mad
riot doesnt hate junglers
maybe you just need to keep calm and farm
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On November 17 2013 20:05 Slayer91 wrote:
you sound mad
riot doesnt hate junglers
maybe you just need to keep calm and farm
It actually sorta sucks for meteos farming jungle since jungle scales off average level. If you're someone like Meteos, where you're same level as your solo laners, you're essentially allowing enemy jungle to benefit from your xp gain.
If you're afk farming, you're allowing ganking enemy junglers to make up for failed ganks by quite a bit.
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On November 17 2013 17:40 obesechicken13 wrote:Stonewall posted a video about jungle gold and levels assuming constant clearing in the S4 jungle. It seems like you're going to end up getting equivalent gold if you gank, less levels at all points in the game, and fewer combat stats in your items. A continuation of the trend from S2 to S3 I guess. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1qs9aw/season_4_gold_comparison/My personal take is I'm kind of used to these changes. I guess junglers will have to continue trying to do their best to help their laners. Maybe now we'll have less gold than supports come mid game and be unable to duel them.
That's a weird video because it happens exactly what it should happen, so I don't even know what's the matter is.
- New item gives more gold when farming -> end up having more gold
- Jungle camps have experience reduced -> end up having less experience.
- The item is weaker in term of sustain -> less sustain.
Despite a shitty one, Wriggle is a full farm item, if you get it, you have to commit to jungle farming, there's no but. If you want an item that can farm a little bit and go out help team, get them Spirit item since they give gold when you kill/assist a champ.
It's hard to say without seeing a lot of example first. Since it takes a while for you to get wriggle, if you still go gank like normal, by the time you get wriggle, your level and sustain should be much better and you'll be able to farm jungle much faster. Not to mention, killing dragon while having wriggle gives you like 100gold later since dragon gold scales too.
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Have you all not learned from the other jungle changes, that no matter what riot does the jungle isn't going to change. I really like the bush changes, and I'm still wondering how the fuck they are going to nerf shaco and eve because of the pink changes.
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On November 17 2013 17:40 obesechicken13 wrote:Stonewall posted a video about jungle gold and levels assuming constant clearing in the S4 jungle. It seems like you're going to end up getting equivalent gold if you gank, less levels at all points in the game, and fewer combat stats in your items. A continuation of the trend from S2 to S3 I guess. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1qs9aw/season_4_gold_comparison/My personal take is I'm kind of used to these changes. I guess junglers will have to continue trying to do their best to help their laners. Maybe now we'll have less gold than supports come mid game and be unable to duel them.
Eh, there's a lot of issues I have with the video. He counts the initial jungle race with Yi, more of an AOE jungler due to alpha strike, yet insists on doing the wight camp after blue, which is an entirely single target camp. At the same time professing that it's a valid display because he kept things similar. How about making the route similar.
The entire video is a rant about wriggles and he doesn't even talk about the other jungle items. That they took off the lifesteal, yet everybody who would build as an ad-based carry jungler would much rather have the vamp scepter rolled into another item. Finally, he complains about how behind you are from the new stat values/changes when the cost effectiveness is a net ~133 gain.
Nor is he taking into account taxing lanes. His criticism that sometimes you get pulled away from the jungle in the early portion of the game is silly because it's usually for something like a tower(more gold) or dragon(your responsibility anyway as a jungler.)
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It's almost like you're expecting RoG to make sense.
OldManEyebrows advocated the Shard oute for Fiddlesticks with the new support items. I think I'd rather have Shurelya, because Fiddle lacks range and disengage, and CDR is one of his best stats because of Terrify and now you can get 20%. As far as gold generation goes, you only have Dark Wind to do it too, considering his 480 auto range (weird number, uh) you'll take poke or get engaged if you ever get close enough to use it past level 1-2 on someone like Vayne.
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On November 17 2013 21:10 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2013 17:40 obesechicken13 wrote:Stonewall posted a video about jungle gold and levels assuming constant clearing in the S4 jungle. It seems like you're going to end up getting equivalent gold if you gank, less levels at all points in the game, and fewer combat stats in your items. A continuation of the trend from S2 to S3 I guess. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1qs9aw/season_4_gold_comparison/My personal take is I'm kind of used to these changes. I guess junglers will have to continue trying to do their best to help their laners. Maybe now we'll have less gold than supports come mid game and be unable to duel them. Eh, there's a lot of issues I have with the video. He counts the initial jungle race with Yi, more of an AOE jungler due to alpha strike, yet insists on doing the wight camp after blue, which is an entirely single target camp. At the same time professing that it's a valid display because he kept things similar. How about making the route similar. The entire video is a rant about wriggles and he doesn't even talk about the other jungle items. That they took off the lifesteal, yet everybody who would build as an ad-based carry jungler would much rather have the vamp scepter rolled into another item. Finally, he complains about how behind you are from the new stat values/changes when the cost effectiveness is a net ~133 gain. Nor is he taking into account taxing lanes. His criticism that sometimes you get pulled away from the jungle in the early portion of the game is silly because it's usually for something like a tower(more gold) or dragon(your responsibility anyway as a jungler.)
The new wraith camp is the closest and he says he did do a similar route, ignoring dad wraith but felt the same issue with lack of sustain. I'd assume if it were faster he'd have commented on it.
Wriggles is not more stats or gold in combat stats. It gets progressively weaker each season. The lifesteal loss isn't that big of a deal when you get 10 health on hit. But now it's only 25% aspd and 20 armor. http://www.reignofgaming.net/blogs/a-different-view/oldmaneyebrows/26331-is-there-hope-for-wriggles-lantern-in-season-4
The new Ancient Golem looks promising but I think it still has the same problem of shoehorning one item as a jungler's first item every game. I think that's Riot's vision but sometimes I wish Frozen Mallet or Sunfire cape were made of cheaper components and that machete's clear speed passive weren't so needed for sustaining in the jungle. In short I feel like S2 jungle was the best.
I normally don't tax my lanes. It can cause my allies to rage. I might push a lane if someone is dead but even that can cause someone to spam back pings. He does comment on lane taxing. You didn't watch the whole video, or you weren't paying attention. He says that it's unreliable and it's something that laners have access to as well.
I like the idea of more gold from nowhere though. 40% gold on wriggles and the conservation passive on golem seem to both work together but I'm not sure how they stack. It reminds me of midas from DotA. It's just hard to figure out what the breakeven is in an average game and whether it's ever worth getting. It feels like a gp10 item that a jungler can rush.
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EPT
