On October 03 2013 14:53 FinestHour wrote: is there any reason why nocturne doesnt see more play in solo que ranked like that ult owns 5 uncoordinated people
Well, just watch the S3 Finals.
#1. Most lanes are "decided" before a jungler has a chance of hitting lvl 6. #2. Without coordination you can't "win a teamfight" before it is supposed to happen. (Aka ban Amumu in Bronze). #3. Can't Bypass Wards (Jarvan, Zac, Vi, Aatrox). #4. Mediocre Dives.
Honestly, Nocturne is almost a "carry" jungle. He belongs in pick comps, but his ult timer is really long for a pick comp. Its a style thing, but the style is out of style.
Vi is kind of a better version of nocturne imo. His ult can sometimes cause havoc but meh. Vi's ult is like a guaranteed kill and screws over the adc.
Vi is only kinda like Nocturne. Nocturne is really more like a laner who is better in the jungle. Like, he is jungle Jax/Irelia/Olaf. Nocturne will be "the guy" again when you need that amount of farm to be relevant again + when junglers can do that. Until then its the Lee Sin show.
On October 03 2013 14:53 FinestHour wrote: is there any reason why nocturne doesnt see more play in solo que ranked like that ult owns 5 uncoordinated people
I can only speak for Bronze, but people rage when your jungler isn't super tanky or doesn't have significant CC. I'd say Nocturne just misses the cut on both of these.
i hear this argument for pretty much every champ that isn't played much and I think it's just a subtle form of blame shifting.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
On October 03 2013 16:24 Kouda wrote: Can anyone explain to me why BoxBox goes GB on Riven? The concept sounds really interesting , but I love my bruta --> tiamat / RH .
On October 03 2013 16:24 Kouda wrote: Can anyone explain to me why BoxBox goes GB on Riven? The concept sounds really interesting , but I love my bruta --> tiamat / RH .
The CDR/ArPen.
Basically. It's more flat ArPen than Black Cleaver (though Cleaver ends up cleaving more Armor after several stacks).
For melee Champs also, the extra burst of MS is also extremely good for gapclosing and making plays. Random crits are nice as well, though you don't depend on them whatsoever.
Common Dominion/ARAM/TT Build for AD Casters: Bruta->GB->Bruta->Lucidity->LW->BC.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
Even "bad" players caught on to Black Cleaver, Warmogs, and most recently Triforce. There is honestly nothing special about bronze, except the losing. Like if you took the Lolking endings from 50 Bronze, and 50 Challenger games I doubt most people could sort them correctly to more than a 60/40 split.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
Even "bad" players caught on to Black Cleaver, Warmogs, and most recently Triforce. There is honestly nothing special about bronze, except the losing. Like if you took the Lolking endings from 50 Bronze, and 50 Challenger games I doubt most people could sort them correctly to more than a 60/40 split.
I don't see the relevance. People rage massively in bronze, and it doesn't matter. Disregard it. That's a consequence of what I'm saying.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
Even "bad" players caught on to Black Cleaver, Warmogs, and most recently Triforce. There is honestly nothing special about bronze, except the losing. Like if you took the Lolking endings from 50 Bronze, and 50 Challenger games I doubt most people could sort them correctly to more than a 60/40 split.
If you give me a subsection of games that have FM I garuntee I can get 80% at least.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
Even "bad" players caught on to Black Cleaver, Warmogs, and most recently Triforce. There is honestly nothing special about bronze, except the losing. Like if you took the Lolking endings from 50 Bronze, and 50 Challenger games I doubt most people could sort them correctly to more than a 60/40 split.
I think the CS difference would give it away. Not very many bronze players make it above 200 CS in a game, and many of them will finish with less than 100.
On October 03 2013 14:53 FinestHour wrote: is there any reason why nocturne doesnt see more play in solo que ranked like that ult owns 5 uncoordinated people
I can only speak for Bronze, but people rage when your jungler isn't super tanky or doesn't have significant CC. I'd say Nocturne just misses the cut on both of these.
i hear this argument for pretty much every champ that isn't played much and I think it's just a subtle form of blame shifting.
When you have a fizz mid and like a riven top and you decide you need to build elder lizard bruta on J4, it is your fault when your team loses.
You can probably tell bronze games from diamond+ with ease.
- People will generally have a LOT less deaths. - People will actually be getting respectable amounts of money from farm. - rare fucked up runes/masteries - sensible builds, or trolling within reason.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
It might not be a good one, but it is the philosophy in Bronze. And I've found it's the best way to climb out of Bronze. Some people will flip out to the point where people leave in champ select if you don't ban Amumu, Shen, Malphite, and Blitzcrank. I personally find none of these champs particularly ban worthy, but I have to if I want a decent game. Even worse, sometimes they'll go into the game but be and idiot and first blood into the enemy Vayne on purpose. Then they'll do it again, and again, and again.
The bottom line is people have certain expectations and if they aren't met it they react in a negative way that ruins the game experience. Don't get me wrong, I think it is crap too. And sure, sometimes you do get the team that goes "Oh you want to play Xerath support? Be my guest!". But sometimes the best thing to do is suck it up and go Zac jungle, even though you personally hate him. Keeping people happy, no matter how crap you think it is, will make them play better.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
It might not be a good one, but it is the philosophy in Bronze. And I've found it's the best way to climb out of Bronze. Some people will flip out to the point where people leave in champ select if you don't ban Amumu, Shen, Malphite, and Blitzcrank. I personally find none of these champs particularly ban worthy, but I have to if I want a decent game. Even worse, sometimes they'll go into the game but be and idiot and first blood into the enemy Vayne on purpose. Then they'll do it again, and again, and again.
The bottom line is people have certain expectations and if they aren't met it they react in a negative way that ruins the game experience. Don't get me wrong, I think it is crap too. And sure, sometimes you do get the team that goes "Oh you want to play Xerath support? Be my guest!". But sometimes the best thing to do is suck it up and go Zac jungle, even though you personally hate him. Keeping people happy, no matter how crap you think it is, will make them play better.
That isn't at all in line with my experience. I've never been in bronze but I have played with friends at very low elos and in my experience people rage at absolutely nothing, whether you fuck up or not, so the supposed benefit of trying to get them not to is based on an illusion of control. Tell them to fuck off and that they should feel free to afk. They really don't get anything out of trying to mess with someone who displays complete contempt and disinterest toward them so it really stops the whole "oooooh I'm gonna leave now" process short.
Appeasement as a solo queue strategy is completely worthless, and you should maybe give the alternative a shot rather than just assuming being nice is helping you somehow. I have santa baron so in theory I'm not going into every game looking to throw down with my teammates, but I'm not going to sacrifice the most efficient and effective method of dealing with ragers, which is to either say nothing and ignore them or give them a curt dismissal and ignore them.
On October 03 2013 16:17 Scip wrote: There is a reason why junglers are expected to be tanky and have a lot of CC and it isn't people not experimenting enough
no, I meant the "ppl rage in low elo" part. I don't consider that legit. like, consider ap sona top. You could say A: "people will rage if you pick ap sona top in bronze" and B: "ap sona top is bad" and those will both be true, but A won't be true because of B and B won't be true because of A. It's just a way of saying "I allow my opinions and actions to conform to what the terrible players around me want because that's the way you win", which examined without the obfuscation is clearly not a great philosophy.
Even "bad" players caught on to Black Cleaver, Warmogs, and most recently Triforce. There is honestly nothing special about bronze, except the losing. Like if you took the Lolking endings from 50 Bronze, and 50 Challenger games I doubt most people could sort them correctly to more than a 60/40 split.
While that is true, they also hold onto trends far after they have passed.
Anybody's thoughts on an Urgot revival with all these assassin mids going around? Was watching a Turtle vlog and he brought him up in reference to Olaf's winrate. Figured Urgots "not die" might outweigh is soft carrying issues.
EPT
Time to learn his jungle Eve.
