EPTplay a third game, play Lux mid, a champ I haven't played in ages, easily carry game
wtf
[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 245
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
play a third game, play Lux mid, a champ I haven't played in ages, easily carry game wtf | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:36 oneofthem wrote: well, lol games last quite a bit shorter, especially in faster meta regions. maybe i watched way too many 50 minute farm fest into buyback dota games so my impression of the two games are different. if i'm forced to watch say the entire LCS season i'll probably come to a different conclusion, but so far teams like KTB and SKT tend to finish their games pretty fast and with plays all over the map. So I just decided to take a quick average of bracket games at TI3 and got 40.5 minute game average and 38.16 kill average. If you don't actually pay attention to either game why make ignorant statements? I would do the same for LoL but finding the game data in a nice layout is proving more effort than I wish to do for such things. edit: Found some data but got bored so only did bracket. Average game length was 33min and kills were 29. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:53 Numy wrote: So I just decided to take a quick average of bracket games at TI3 and got 40.5 minute game average and 38.16 kill average. If you don't actually pay attention to either game why make ignorant statements? I would do the same for LoL but finding the game data in a nice layout is proving more effort than I wish to do for such things. Which is still longer than the average LoL game right? I'm guessing the kill/minute is higher in DotA. I think the 50 minute rice fests stand out in DotA though, even if they're not as common as some might have you believe. They don't really happen in LoL and they're really boring to watch the majority of the time. Still, I'm watching TI3 atm and I'm having a ton of "WOAH!" moments. The peaks of DotA are incredibly enjoyable. | ||
MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:19 red_ wrote: Will this make them more or less able to deal with the load of the replay system, which has been stated as the reason it can't yet be deployed? I'm not versed enough about how network traffic is handled to know if something other than just the raw bandwidth numbers can help solve the issue. One of the issues that's particularly problematic in EU (afaik, I might be wrong) is that the data from the Riot severs to users have to go through so many middlemen essentially. So a breakdown or bottleneck anywhere in that chain will negatively impact user experience. One of the reasons it's so pronounced is that you're going to have data going through many different countries with their own infrastructure and networking arrangements because of business deals, etc. For example, maybe to get data to France Riot's ISP passes it on to the main French network who then pass it on to some intermediary as standard operating procedures. Maybe it's subontracted, maybe they need to use another company's infrastructure because they don't own enough or the other company has a monopoly for a local area, or maybe it was a requirement for a business deal they needed. But during peak hours, the intermediary starts freaking out at all this data that's coming through and throttles all data. Now we have a bottleneck and no one realises what's going on. The impression I get from that statement is that they're going to manage exactly what paths their data is going to take to get to each country and get distributed in the most efficient way possible. They also seem to be aiming for direct oversight of where their traffic goes. This means if something happens down the line, they will be able to immediately figure out where instead of needing to ask for hundreds of user's trace-routes to figure out where the data is getting lost. I can't imagine how much money or negotiation they needed to do this. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:59 Amarok wrote: Which is still longer than the average LoL game right? I'm guessing the kill/minute is higher in DotA. I think the 50 minute rice fests stand out in DotA though, even if they're not as common as some might have you believe. They don't really happen in LoL and they're really boring to watch the majority of the time. Still, I'm watching TI3 atm and I'm having a ton of "WOAH!" moments. The peaks of DotA are incredibly enjoyable. Yea from worlds it's longer than the average but not by much and that is partially due to how many one sided games there were. Looking back it's actually pretty saddening how few series were truly close instead of alternating stomps. edit: If someone can find a source that already did the stats would be nice. I'm not bored enough to go through all of them and do it | ||
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Haiq343
United States2548 Posts
It's unfortunate that too little appreciation is given to the little things that build up to the 'big play' as that results in the perception that games are boring if a team is countering those little plays sufficiently to deny the kill/goal/dunk. And this applies to LoL, Dota and really all conventional sports. It's also a significant reason why so many Muricans think soccer is boring. | ||
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upperbound
United States2300 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:11 MoonBear wrote: It's incredibly significant and I think it's a shame a lot of people won't recognise it. The only step up from this is probably Riot just becoming an ISP and providing free internet for everyone to play their game. No doubt it's been something they've decided they need to do because of all the issues that they've had with ISPs before like Virgin. YAY Maybe I can actually get enough games without significant packet loss to get plat now. Also playing AD Carry is way more enjoyable when you have supports that main the role and understand bot lane at least a little. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 18 2013 07:53 Numy wrote: 40 minute is pretty long. earlier in the year games finished a lot faster and people were discussing whether snowballing too hard is a problem for dota. for me the problem is that we don't see exciting stuff like minus armor strats, fast push etc working. if dota had mushi TA every game i would never complain. So I just decided to take a quick average of bracket games at TI3 and got 40.5 minute game average and 38.16 kill average. If you don't actually pay attention to either game why make ignorant statements? I would do the same for LoL but finding the game data in a nice layout is proving more effort than I wish to do for such things. lol is a more optimized and straitjacketed game strategy wise, with stuff like "objectives" designed to force pace to the game, acting like mini achievements within each game. back in s2 lol was definitely worse action wise, but nowadays if you are not forced to watch every game, and i don't know why you would, then you can definitely find high level games to be very action packed. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:11 Numy wrote: So if you hand pick action packed games then it's action packed. even the 'actiony' games are pretty low on actual action time | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:00 MoonBear wrote: One of the issues that's particularly problematic in EU (afaik, I might be wrong) is that the data from the Riot severs to users have to go through so many middlemen essentially. So a breakdown or bottleneck anywhere in that chain will negatively impact user experience. One of the reasons it's so pronounced is that you're going to have data going through many different countries with their own infrastructure and networking arrangements because of business deals, etc. For example, maybe to get data to France Riot's ISP passes it on to the main French network who then pass it on to some intermediary as standard operating procedures. Maybe it's subontracted, maybe they need to use another company's infrastructure because they don't own enough or the other company has a monopoly for a local area, or maybe it was a requirement for a business deal they needed. But during peak hours, the intermediary starts freaking out at all this data that's coming through and throttles all data. Now we have a bottleneck and no one realises what's going on. The impression I get from that statement is that they're going to manage exactly what paths their data is going to take to get to each country and get distributed in the most efficient way possible. They also seem to be aiming for direct oversight of where their traffic goes. This means if something happens down the line, they will be able to immediately figure out where instead of needing to ask for hundreds of user's trace-routes to figure out where the data is getting lost. I can't imagine how much money or negotiation they needed to do this. Sounds to me that ISPs realized Riot has tons of monies so they decided to bottleneck Riot. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Perhaps due to a smaller map and the lack of teleport scrolls, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time there are pretty much 0 things you can do. So most of the game after laning is about being at the right place at the right time, or setting up the map in a way where both choices are bad for the other team (sidelane wave control). This is pretty spectator unfriendly until you are into the game enough where you enjoy it. | ||
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:18 Sufficiency wrote: Sounds to me that ISPs realized Riot has tons of monies so they decided to bottleneck Riot. Not necessarily. Sometimes these things happen because of business deals (e.g. in order to win a business contract, a Belgian company may be obliged to use a specific German network infrastructure) or necessity (an ISP may use a subcontractor to handle excess data in peak hours like a website might lean on Amazon EC2 when they suddenly get large surges in visitors and need server power fast). | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:11 Numy wrote: So if you hand pick action packed games then it's action packed. not games, but regional metas. GPL games in lol are really slow, but that's not really representative of how the game leading meta is playing. On October 18 2013 08:21 xes wrote: What I meant by League being strategic is that it is a lot more like SC2. Perhaps due to a smaller map and the lack of teleport scrolls, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time there are pretty much 0 things you can do. So most of the game after laning is about being at the right place at the right time, or setting up the map in a way where both choices are bad for the other team (sidelane wave control). This is pretty spectator unfriendly until you are into the game enough where you enjoy it. dunno about sc2, but this aspect of lol is pretty nice, because it rewards fast and unexpected rotations. teams like skt and omg do these transitions to catch other teams with their pants down. this kind of in game strategy (what i called tactic before) looks pretty well defined because of how effective they are. a big play clearly recognizable as a big play. i watched more dota than lol before ti3, so maybe every smoke gank looks the same to me. dunno. i'll shut up about this topic now. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:21 xes wrote: What I meant by League being strategic is that it is a lot more like SC2. Perhaps due to a smaller map and the lack of teleport scrolls, if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time there are pretty much 0 things you can do. So most of the game after laning is about being at the right place at the right time, or setting up the map in a way where both choices are bad for the other team (sidelane wave control). This is pretty spectator unfriendly until you are into the game enough where you enjoy it. When I realised the timing and how the first minutes/ganks played out in the WE game with the Blitz+Sion gank squad, I rewinded to the buffs spawn and started looking at almost only the minimap for the rest of the game. Maybe it wasn't spectator-friendly but damn was that beautifully planned and executed. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40484597#40484597 'bout time. And while a lot of the justification for the league system is bogus, I really do appreciate that it lets them make a dodge penalty that feels like a penalty while not affecting matchmaking. When it was a flat 30 minute ban for dodging, there were dodgers everywhere and you had to sit through like 4 queues before you could start a ranked game. When it was -10 elo, some people abused the system to play with bronzes even though they were really plat or something. | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On October 18 2013 09:08 thenexusp wrote: So they're going to make it possible to drop out of 'V' tiers in s4 http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=40484597#40484597 'bout time. Honestly I think that makes this system flat out inferior to the old one then. League promotion being near permanent was the only reasoning I saw behind making Elo a hidden(thus meaningless to most people) number. Pretty much every statement they make for League being better comes down to people not realizing MMR is the only number that matters for progression. | ||
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Scip
Czech Republic11293 Posts
On October 18 2013 08:59 Alaric wrote: When I realised the timing and how the first minutes/ganks played out in the WE game with the Blitz+Sion gank squad, I rewinded to the buffs spawn and started looking at almost only the minimap for the rest of the game. Maybe it wasn't spectator-friendly but damn was that beautifully planned and executed. Yeah, watching only the minimap is probably the most fun and the most educational way to watch LoL | ||
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Simberto
Germany11839 Posts
This is of course assuming that riot is giving out meaningful statistics, which i would not always be sure off since reading "Players who obey the summoners code win xyz% more games" instead of "if you lose, you are more likely to be reported" | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 18 2013 09:18 Scip wrote: Yeah, watching only the minimap is probably the most fun and the most educational way to watch LoL Dun' care, put my disclaimer. I'm more specifically alluding to the way waves and wards are timed from level 1 onward, WE knew there weren't any wards in the river nor near the blue camp, and that the enemy jungler wasn't there (seen a bit before when he passed a ward near double golems), so Sion started pushing too in bot lane and as soon as Kassadin lost vision of Blitz in mid (pushed under his tower) and Elise finished her red, they converged toward purple side's outer bot tower and ganked Kennen with impeccable timing and no way for the enemy team to know it apart from "We're pushed to tower so we don't know where they are, we have to relinquish these 10+ cs waves because they out-laned us and our jungler ran over a ward on the other side of the map" (which they didn't—relinquish the cs, I mean). | ||
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