EPT[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 150
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35167 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:35 iCanada wrote: Get Redeemed Riven, imo it the best one anyway. All of them are the best one. Full wardrobe, bitches. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:42 onlywonderboy wrote: The fact you are getting refunded RP for the skins is pretty nice compensation though. Not really. I'd rather just buy some RP. Frankly, that's the minimum they should do. Remember these skins were sold as once off opportunities. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Landing all her spells, she gets 1235+285% AP (1515+365% AP if she gets two rotations of foxfire on a single target) of damage. Add a DFG proc on top of it and it goes to 15% max HP+1418+326.5% AP (or 15% max HP+1754+422.5% AP) [note it doesn't amplify the true damage, and charm hits before DFG]. Without hitting either an E or a Q, her damage is 775+185% AP (1055+265% with 2 foxfires), and goes up to 15% max HP+930+222% AP (or 15% max HP+1266+318% AP) with a DFG proc. That's again still pretty damn high, and without landing any skillshots to boot. Her new numbers are as follows: Full spell rotation (double proc of W): 1261+280.3% AP (or 1530+357.1% AP) DFG+Full spell rotation (double proc of W) [charm first]: 18% max HP+1417.8+314.1% AP (18% max HP+1731.7+403.7% AP) W+R (double proc of W): 644+139% AP (868+203% AP) DFG+W+R (double proc of W): 15% max HP+772.8+166.8%AP (15% max HP+1041+243.6% AP) In other words, in single target situations her damage is roughly comparable if she lands her shit (slightly higher base for slightly lower ratios), while not landing charm or Q nerfs her damage significantly, same with a DFG (slightly lower ratios, basically same base damage), while her damage without landing her skillshots has dropped significantly. Looking at the numbers, you could probably tweak her so that her E also applies on the true damage portion of Q (and maybe ignite), which would ensure that her full combo rotational damage increases as a whole, but in general, her AP ratio remains pretty nuts compared to, say, Lux (a combo of 1190+205% AP). In general though, it does punish bad Ahri's who don't land charms or Qs, so I'm all for the change. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:46 Amarok wrote: Not really. I'd rather just buy some RP. Frankly, that's the minimum they should do. Remember these skins were sold as once off opportunities. I just don't think it's that big of a deal. The people you are playing with don't give a shit if you have Kitty Kat Cat or not, might as well let some more people enjoy the skin. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
It essentially turns Ahri into a less awesome Nidalee at this point. If your going to make her entire kit to kill something based on a single skillshot, you've turned her into a lame version of Nidalee. | ||
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Amarok
Australia2003 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:53 onlywonderboy wrote: I just don't think it's that big of a deal. The people you are playing with don't give a shit if you have Kitty Kat Cat or not, might as well let some more people enjoy the skin. Well, the thing is they kind of do. I get comments on the exclusive skins I own literally every game I use them. + Show Spoiler + I'm a pretty bad Kat though so often it's just "your skin is better than your play". It's not the end of the world of course. Very first world problems. Then again the same could be said for the people who complained about not being able to buy them in the first place. It was just a cool thing I got to experience one in every 50 odd games when I used them. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:56 wei2coolman wrote: @Lord Tolkien It essentially turns Ahri into a less awesome Nidalee at this point. If your going to make her entire kit to kill something based on a single skillshot, you've turned her into a lame version of Nidalee. You can say the same thing about Morgana or Lux though. O_o Are they lamer versions of Nidalee too? The issue is that previously, Ahri had far too much free damage on her W+R, which allowed her to kill people without landing Q or E. That's a significant gameplay problem, as it trivializes other AP mids who do need to land it, and has poor counterplay if you can't actually juke Ahri's damage. People complain about nerfs, but it's in general better to nerf the 5 OPs then to buff 30 underpowered champions, and it's also better to have a champion that's UP rather than OP. The former makes the character/champion relatively unseen, but doesn't negatively affect the metagame and other picks as a whole. The latter absolutely does. Feel free to crucify me. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:03 Slusher wrote: I really feel like the reduction to Morgana's base damage should be reverted, the tradeoff of losing the MR reduction is enough. Mainly my issue is right now she already suffers from the number of mid heros that flash farm much faster than her making Pool actually not a very good waveclear as is, idk it might not even matter but I feel like the reduction was not needed. thoughts? They should seriously consider putting a damage buff on minions on it, back when shitty wave clear was norm and people had mana costs on abilities W was a good pusher as it pushed waves while not taking a lot of mana. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:58 Lord Tolkien wrote: You can say the same thing about Morgana or Lux though. O_o Are they lamer versions of Nidalee too? Lux's build tends to have far more CDR, her Q becomes less consequential in terms of missing, not to mention she has an easier ability to catch back liners, much longer range, her ulti and E can hit back line. Ahri doesn't have the same capability. Morgana hasn't touched pro play in a longgg time. Also, in Worlds, it was shown that Ahri as fairly inconsequential. You can bait out the pick and make her useless. Also, where's the fizz and zed nerfs? | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:58 Slusher wrote: that comparison isn't even close to reasonable. The Nidalee comparison or Lux/Morg comparison? Due to the nature of her E (the CC), she's far closer in gameplay to Lux/Morg than she is to Nidalee (albeit with either more damage [Lux], and more mobility [both Lux and Morg]). On October 11 2013 12:03 wei2coolman wrote: Lux's build tends to have far more CDR, her Q becomes less consequential in terms of missing, not to mention she has an easier ability to catch back liners, much longer range, her ulti and E can hit back line. Ahri doesn't have the same capability. Morgana hasn't touched pro play in a longgg time. Ahri's build includes a DFG as first item. With masteries, you're talking 33-34% CDR with a blue as is (Lux has 40% from usually Grail+Blue). The CDR differential and base CDs (Lux has higher CDs on her Q pre level 5) only adds up to a 2s difference to Lux Q and Ahri E CDs. Lux has a higher range on it (+200), but Ahri has significantly more damage and mobility than does Lux. Again, you're oversimplifying it. Also, in Worlds, it was shown that Ahri as fairly inconsequential. You can bait out the pick and make her useless. Also, where's the fizz and zed nerfs? Royal ended up beating Zed with a counterpick Kass (and then Piglet Ezreal). Does that mean Zed doesn't need nerfs? The nerfs are not just for competitive, but it raises her difficulty cap as a whole (which is good). Zed and Fizz nerfs are absolutely being discussed (as Riot posts have already mentioned). The issue is that Zed, Fizz, and Kass are more difficult and problematic to balance, both pinpointing their problems and hitting them without causing them to fall out of play entirely (because Zed is useless if he can't instagib 1 person, etc). Ahri nerfs are easier to address and roll out on PBE to test, is basically what I assume is going on. They'll probably roll out Zed/Fizz/Kass nerfs onto PBE in the next few weeks. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On October 11 2013 12:03 wei2coolman wrote: Lux's build tends to have far more CDR, her Q becomes less consequential in terms of missing, not to mention she has an easier ability to catch back liners, much longer range, her ulti and E can hit back line. Ahri doesn't have the same capability. Morgana hasn't touched pro play in a longgg time. Also, in Worlds, it was shown that Ahri as fairly inconsequential. You can bait out the pick and make her useless. Also, where's the fizz and zed nerfs? if you are going to make that argument, all 3 got shut down when the teams were evenly matched. Assassins are either over rated or they aren't. @^ I was refering to the comparison of Ahri to Nidalee, it's unreasonable. | ||
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SoulSever
Canada779 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 11 2013 12:04 Lord Tolkien wrote: The Nidalee comparison or Lux/Morg comparison? Due to the nature of her E (the CC), she's far closer in gameplay to Lux/Morg than she is to Nidalee (albeit with either more damage [Lux], and more mobility [both Lux and Morg]). Ahri's build includes a DFG as first item. With masteries, you're talking 33-34% CDR with a blue as is (Lux has 40% from usually Grail+Blue). The CDR differential and base CDs (Lux has higher CDs on her Q pre level 5) only adds up to a 2s difference to Lux Q and Ahri E CDs. Lux has a higher range on it (+200), but Ahri has significantly more damage and mobility than does Lux. Again, you're oversimplifying it. 2 seconds is huge, and not to mention it's ability to catch 2 people + longer range + ability to hit back line. Ahri's charm is nothing close to how Lux binding works, especially considering how the follow up works. Pretty much requires her to land a perfect charm on a back liner, and then diving through everyone without getting cc'd up, to do her damage (if she's lucky, cuz W is going to be auto targeted so might not even hit back liner, same applying to her ulti). Her ability to pick solo targets with fnatic bush camping won't change too much, but it destroys her teamfighting. This reminds me of her initial set of nerfs, she was a strong pick, but she wasn't #1 in meta, but they still chose to hit Ahri before other champs. | ||
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 11 2013 11:57 Amarok wrote: Well, the thing is they kind of do. I get comments on the exclusive skins I own literally every game I use them. + Show Spoiler + I'm a pretty bad Kat though so often it's just "your skin is better than your play". It's not the end of the world of course. Very first world problems. Then again the same could be said for the people who complained about not being able to buy them in the first place. It was just a cool thing I got to experience one in every 50 odd games when I used them. That's fair, I guess I've gotten a few comments on UFO Corki. I mean it probably is just a money grab lol, but one that a lot of people have requested. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On October 11 2013 12:13 SoulSever wrote: Just saw LoCi on stream vs Fishing for Urf. I like to play fizz myself and also like to pick panth when facing one. Thoughts on the match-up? need more info. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
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